Warlock 6.2 Discussion

[Deleted]

Anyone want to take any bets as to how long they'll take the nerf affliction down again? We've been on this old rollercoaster before, you have a pretty much insoluble problem of every time you make a DOT class decent on single target you make it ungodly strong as soon as you can dot up three or more. Hence sticking plaster fixes like haunt and drain soul. In Wrath we bounced around for a while with affliction dot buffs, ooops, afflocks are silly strong in some encounters, nerf, oops, afflocks are silly weak in some encounters....

I'd also lay bets that a nerf to Chaos Bolt will appear. It's becoming too dominant as destruction's damage source - just like Demonbolt, a single ability that generates the vast majority of damage

[Zerach8]

I'd also lay bets that a nerf to Chaos Bolt will appear. It's becoming too dominant as destruction's damage source - just like Demonbolt, a single ability that generates the vast majority of damage

Play without CR and ull see that chaos bolt isnt that far ahead from incinerate...2set significantly buffs CR while other two talent choices get almost nothing from it...2set should have something to improve the spec if you dont want to run CR for whatever reason.

[Kib]

Why not remove Cataclysm from Affliction and simply make the new talent give 2 charges to SS on a 30sec recharge... Cataclysm seems pretty useless for Aff at first view, correct me if i'm wrong but i think that could be an easy fix... Not that I ever think it'll get implemented but it could maybe spark some discussion.

[Uzkin]

Each spec still needs significant mechanics tweaks in each spec before 6.2 going live, especially with the archi trinkets out there. (oh like people will not take them into pvp pff) Thus they will probably have to be disabled in pvp combat or something. Demo is still overnerfed but mechanics wise it has a few points it could be streamlined.

1. Affliction:
*soulswap has a charge cost, 2x charges, recharges like conflag/HoG
*SB:Soulswap costs 1 shard
*Seed detonates on impact, hits hard enough to make its mechanics worth it....OR make it a set/detonate ground based style
*Shard generation/nightfall RNG bad protection significantly tightened up
*SB:H is now just a passive like CR or lasts 2x as long (not everyone is 700+ilvl with 2K haste)
*Move about 5-10% damage from DS ticks back to the dots themselves.
*HL/Drain life uninterruptable or the glyph makes it that way and the glyph's effect is baked into the baseline spell.

2. Destruction
*2pc changes or it will fubar pvp, pve mana regen, backdraft charges
*Just have ember gain and damage triple or simply kick in (3x dmg yes, ember gain on/off @ 3x targets)
*F&B automatically refunds an ember when striking 3+ targets
*Fel flame comes back (c'mon you get 3'ish before oom anyhow)
*Backlash is back with a 3-4 sec ICD and works with chaosbolt.
*2pc pve destro could do casting CB on the move and do a minor damage boost, 2pc pvp should make CB uninterruptable, instant after stunned/etc 15 sec ICD
*Approximately a 5-10% tax reduction in CR's filler spells

Demo:
*No more corruption - now affliction only! All related procs and siphon life glyph work off HoG ticks now.
*Extend HoG duration 3'ish seconds, 3x charges baseline (change T17 to lower recharge to balance out huge RNG swings of 10x chaoswaves on trash adds lol)
*ToC scales its damage off haste the way Chaosbolt and Soulfire do off crit
*Imp HP brought up to = succy and felhunter at minimum so we can use him with sac pact, fix the fel imp's dispel already (been fubar since 6.0 @ 90 dropped)
*Give the voidwalker/lord deathgrip as his ability/demon command, his current taunt is boring and has 0 pvp application.
*Felguard/Wrathguard need to have armor/durability on par with VW for a "premium" pet.
*Imp glyph baseline at 2 min CD fixed, demonic calling unaffected (still reduced by haste), imp swarm glyph goes away...
*Buff single target of abyssal/infernal a bit closer and drop his stun to 25-30 sec recharge
*Buff demonbolt say 12.5% so its a viable choice again

That's a nice, well-thought-out list. (At least when it comes to pve; I don't pvp so I cannot comment that part.)

However, why not just have Immolate instant (akin to Moonfire/Sunfire) instead of re-implementing Fel Flame? That way, no new spells would have to be added --> no unnecessary button bloat.

[ZombiexCat]

That's a nice, well-thought-out list. (At least when it comes to pve; I don't pvp so I cannot comment that part.)

However, why not just have Immolate instant (akin to Moonfire/Sunfire) instead of re-implementing Fel Flame? That way, no new spells would have to be added --> no unnecessary button bloat.

That's an awesome idea! All down for that one

[Zerach8]

However, why not just have Immolate instant (akin to Moonfire/Sunfire) instead of re-implementing Fel Flame? That way, no new spells would have to be added --> no unnecessary button bloat.

That sounds great...i get excited just thinking about it being implemented xD

[Cyberthug32]

Well Dk's can apply their dots instantly to a target and then 1gcd spread them too. So i'm not sure as why Warlocks are resricted so much with spreading dots.

I worry about if they'll nerf the spec when the Release ptr build is up there, and they nerf it, or not. From past experiences if there isn't any major adjustments coming in the release build, plan on just minor tweaks before release.

[Gaidax]

Well Dk's can apply their dots instantly to a target and then 1gcd spread them too. So i'm not sure as why Warlocks are resricted so much with spreading dots.

I worry about if they'll nerf the spec when the Release ptr build is up there, and they nerf it, or not. From past experiences if there isn't any major adjustments coming in the release build, plan on just minor tweaks before release.

Yes, I think Warlocks should also have melee range or 20yd range on their dots too and make them deal quarter the damage too, just to more closely resemble the superior DK.

They have it instant because you are not going to frikkin' cast things in melee - half-melee range.

Seriously, sometimes people lose touch with reality - just like that "things to change" post above... might as well make Cataclysm have 1500% Area and boost it's damage by 1500% and be done with it, just because.

I am not looking to be mind-numblingly OP again like in 5.4 here.

[Avikur]

However, why not just have Immolate instant (akin to Moonfire/Sunfire) instead of re-implementing Fel Flame? That way, no new spells would have to be added --> no unnecessary button bloat.

I suggested that throughout the beta on here, the official forums (EU and US) and to the devs on Twitter, such an obvious solution to Destros mobility issues

[ZombiexCat]

I suggested that throughout the beta on here, the official forums (EU and US) and to the devs on Twitter, such an obvious solution to Destros mobility issues

It would be an exceptional change for mobility. And it's not out of the question. Take boomkins for example. ALL of their dos rotation, minus their filler spells, are instant cast. Having immolate do the same would be pretty sweet.

[Turturin the Warlock]

It would be an exceptional change for mobility. And it's not out of the question. Take boomkins for example. ALL of their dos rotation, minus their filler spells, are instant cast. Having immolate do the same would be pretty sweet.

If you're comparing destro mobility to boomkins and asking for buffs, you're doing it wrong. Boomkins don't have much more mobility than destro does.
1. spamming moonfire/sunfire is nowhere near the frontloaded damage that immolate puts out.
2. Moonkins don't get to spam starsurge while on the move. starsurges are precious, there's a limited amount of them over the course of a fight. you don't really want to use them unless you are at (or near) full eclipse, generally speaking, as it's going to be a dps loss. It's enhancement to mobility is more like that of conflag, sometimes it helps while moving, oftentimes it doesn't.

Look, I'm in agreement that destro should have mobility roughly equivalent to a fire mage (either that or superior single target). As a pure dps, it seems a fair-(ish) comparison. But arguing that moonkin have some kind of awesome mobility is just not a strong argument. Moonkin are strong (arguably too much so) at cooldown stacked burst and spread target damage (starfall). Mobility is really average or below, especially on single target when starfall isn't used.

[Deleted]

My two cents about some of the potential changes for warlocks I'd like to see, focusing on talents:

Our 90 and 100 talent tiers do not have a consistent theme, which is in my opinion the cause of all what is wrong with them. One talents buffs mobility, other buffs AoE, changes gameplay or bores you to death. You get the gist.

I propose:

LvL 90 - Theme: Mobility improvement.

Keep KJC. Remove AD and MF and make AD baseline. Come up with two new damage-on-move enhancing talents in their place. They don't have to be completely original, you can seek insipiration in other classes.

LvL 100 - Theme: Direct damage increase.

Right now, one of the talents is a AoE ability, one is ST/AoE ability and one is a complete abomination (Demonic Servitude).

Remove Demonic Servitude. It's an awfuly tedious and boring talent, which adds nothing to the gameplay. Come up with new ability in its place that directly increases damage of other abilities (passively - Ember Consumers deal more damage, DoTs deal more damage, Fury spenders deals more damage - doesn't have to be all that imaginative, really).

Buff Cataclysm + when Cataclysm hits less than 3 targets, its damage is increased by 300%.
For Affliction, Cataclysm becomes Attrition - an AoE spell that infects the target with all of the three dots a makes them hit twice as fast (or faster/harder - again, to balance against SB: Haunt) for X seconds.

I didn't really put much thought into the abilities itself, but you can see where I'm going with it.

As of right now, these tiers feel like "Hey, we got a couple of interesting ideas for talents and one very boring idea for talent (Servitude) but we don't really know where to fit them so let's just throw them in together in those two tiers and see what happens".

Yeah, and not talent related but: Either remove Rain of Fire or remove it. Seriously. What is the point of the spell?

[Deleted]

I propose:

LvL 90 - Theme: Mobility improvement.

Keep KJC. Remove AD and MF and make AD baseline. Come up with two new damage-on-move enhancing talents in their place. They don't have to be completely original, you can seek insipiration in other classes.

problem is that it is very depends on the spec whether or not its worth it and if it is, how to do it properly. take afflicc, they only really have drain soul worth casting while moving and if anything affects drain soul like old kjc, then it would be too powerful anyway.

LvL 100 - Theme: Direct damage increase.

Right now, one of the talents is a AoE ability, one is ST/AoE ability and one is a complete abomination (Demonic Servitude).

Remove Demonic Servitude. It's an awfuly tedious and boring talent, which adds nothing to the gameplay. Come up with new ability in its place that directly increases damage of other abilities (passively - Ember Consumers deal more damage, DoTs deal more damage, Fury spenders deals more damage - doesn't have to be all that imaginative, really).

you do see what you've actually done here, right? you ask for the removal of a talent bcoz it is boring and adds nothing to gameplay and then comes up with an idea that does exactly the same, is boring and adds nothing to gameplay, personally i would love to see something like a free instant chaso bolts for destro or free instant haunt for afflic, some kind of proc atleast, that adds to the depth of class and can give it some much need challenge increase imo.

[kamuii]

problem is that it is very depends on the spec whether or not its worth it and if it is, how to do it properly. take afflicc, they only really have drain soul worth casting while moving and if anything affects drain soul like old kjc, then it would be too powerful anyway.



you do see what you've actually done here, right? you ask for the removal of a talent bcoz it is boring and adds nothing to gameplay and then comes up with an idea that does exactly the same, is boring and adds nothing to gameplay, personally i would love to see something like a free instant chaso bolts for destro or free instant haunt for afflic, some kind of proc atleast, that adds to the depth of class and can give it some much need challenge increase imo.

If tier 7 was
slot1=passive
slot2=active
slot3=reactive

[bio347]

If tier 7 was
slot1=passive
slot2=active
slot3=reactive

The themes of the level 100 are fine as they are, I think. The Chaotic Resources talents change the way you interact with your secondary resource (reactive/interactive), Cataclysm is a cooldown ability (active), and Demonic Servitude is passive (passive).

The balance between them isn't necessarily great, and the manner in which some of them work is potentially problematic from a design standpoint, but one thing they ARE is different from each other in meaningful ways.

[Deleted]

So now it's a fantasy wish list discussion! Look, locks in 6.2 will be even more crap than they are in 6.1, both for PVP and PVE, so get used to it. Blizzard, for reasons best known to themselves, totally cocked it up for locks, and the game as a whole isn't in exactly in the best of shape.

[MycantrumX]

So now it's a fantasy wish list discussion! Look, locks in 6.2 will be even more crap than they are in 6.1, both for PVP and PVE, so get used to it. Blizzard, for reasons best known to themselves, totally cocked it up for locks, and the game as a whole isn't in exactly in the best of shape.

I find it utterly hilarious and ironic that your forum name is "hyperbole".

[Deleted]

How is it ironic? There's no exaggeration in anything I've said here. Just about everyone I know is totally fed up with the direction the game has taken. And I know no one who plays their lock now.

[Count Zero]

For how many more builds can we say "it's still early" ?

[Deleted]

Some PTR changes:

Item - Warlock T18 Demonology 2P Bonus Your Soul Fire increases the damage done by your Demons by 5% for 15 sec.This effect can stack up to 5 times.
Item - Warlock T18 Destruction 4P Bonus Your Chaos Bolt has a 9% chance to not consume an Ember. a Ember.

Demonology
Molten Core Your Shadow Bolt and Soul Fire on targets below 25% health reduce the cast time and mana mana cost, and Demonic Fury cost of your next Soul Fire by 50%. Hand of Gul'dan damage over time and Wild Imp Firebolt damage have an 8% chance to trigger this effect at any health level. Chaos Wave damage will always trigger this effect. Warlock - Demonology Spec.