Goodbye, Aspect of the Fox.

[Aelgar]

Is FOX definitely going to go or is it just a maybe?

[waat]

I'm not allowed to sit for bosses that I don't need to let other non-hunters in because they don't want to give up my fox or my big dick dps. maybe if it was just big dick dps i could

[Xerinn]

i havent heard of any hunters worrying for their spot coz of fox but im sure its different in a full mythic group. im still heroic so i dont think half of us know what fox does,
but i am seeing alot of hunters down about fox because they know what it means to the whole team literally can be the difference between kill and wipe. will be interesting to how other classes take the no fox.

[Eatme]

I raid mythic, I have killed BH, and we used 4 hunters with chained fox in p1 and p3, and several other encounters it was used aswell because it is just too powerful, and made spots for other classes become non existant, You wouldn't take any "crappy" melee (warriors, feral druids, monks, DK's etc) when you could bring a hunter.
I am speaking from experience aswell as I had to reroll from DK to Hunter just cause of Fox for Blackhand.

I am sincerely happy that they removed it. It will give more chance of "bring the player not the class" to actually happen.
It was utterly stupid to give a utility like that to a class that already can do loads of jobs in a raid, soaking, feigning etc etc to avoid several abilities on alot of fights. Not to mention high dps and high mobility as ranged.

[Wardley]

Generally Aspects don't make any sense anymore after they removed Aspect of the Hawk and the need to Aspect switch when necessary.

I used to like having Aspect of the Wild and the fights when it was actual useful.

They should bring back both of those (and keep Fox) so that the Hunter has to make a conscious choice to drop his own DPS for a limited time to give the raid the buff needed.

[Manabomb]

I raid mythic, I have killed BH, and we used 4 hunters with chained fox in p1 and p3, and several other encounters it was used aswell because it is just too powerful, and made spots for other classes become non existant, You wouldn't take any "crappy" melee (warriors, feral druids, monks, DK's etc) when you could bring a hunter.
I am speaking from experience aswell as I had to reroll from DK to Hunter just cause of Fox for Blackhand.

I am sincerely happy that they removed it. It will give more chance of "bring the player not the class" to actually happen.
It was utterly stupid to give a utility like that to a class that already can do loads of jobs in a raid, soaking, feigning etc etc to avoid several abilities on alot of fights. Not to mention high dps and high mobility as ranged.

If your healers needed fox chain for mythic blackhand, especially when you're not going toward world/server firsts, then your healers are shit. Bring the player not the class still exists, mythic level guilds need to get out of the mindset that every small little edge is going to matter when you're not racing for anything.

If you can't do mythic BH without hunters and fox, it's a player issue.

On topic, really. Fox will be missed, it was a good raid cooldown, but as seen above it can be too powerful when chained and abused to make certain parts of fights easier because it fills up a void of player skill, in particular when it comes to healers. Amp magic is the same sort of thing. Just annoying that more class diversity is being tossed aside instead of being embraced for roles and niches that should be present in the mythic raiding scene.

That's the problem with 4 difficulties and 33 "classes" keeping them all competitive at the same general rate at different difficulty levels while using different tool kits. Expecting balance from that is just going to end in disappointment.

[Deleted]

I am sincerely happy that they removed it. It will give more chance of "bring the player not the class" to actually happen.
It was utterly stupid to give a utility like that to a class that already can do loads of jobs in a raid, soaking, feigning etc etc to avoid several abilities on alot of fights. Not to mention high dps and high mobility as ranged.

but as seen above it can be too powerful when chained and abused to make certain parts of fights easier because it fills up a void of player skill

Interesting take on it.

Don't you think a debuff (similar to sated) would solve the issue of stacking, while keeping the mechanic, thus still promoting team coordination and skillful play?

[Xerinn]

@Summoner
I guess they could simply put it on a shared cooldown similar to how lust is used?

Thats a really kool insight that you wrote @eatme and i like how you said 4 hunters were used to stack it to help heal through the mythic blackhand kill.
This is where i was going with it being not so much that the hunters that will miss the aspect~ but the other raider members missing the aspect~ and not quite understanding how powerful it was until its gone.

Yeah some of us dont really know when to use it and sometimes we just use it to be greedy with focusing shot at a bad time but i hope there is some casters out their that got a fox randomly put on them when you got targeted by a mechanic

[Eatme]

If your healers needed fox chain for mythic blackhand, especially when you're not going toward world/server firsts, then your healers are shit. Bring the player not the class still exists, mythic level guilds need to get out of the mindset that every small little edge is going to matter when you're not racing for anything.

If you can't do mythic BH without hunters and fox, it's a player issue.

On topic, really. Fox will be missed, it was a good raid cooldown, but as seen above it can be too powerful when chained and abused to make certain parts of fights easier because it fills up a void of player skill, in particular when it comes to healers. Amp magic is the same sort of thing. Just annoying that more class diversity is being tossed aside instead of being embraced for roles and niches that should be present in the mythic raiding scene.

That's the problem with 4 difficulties and 33 "classes" keeping them all competitive at the same general rate at different difficulty levels while using different tool kits. Expecting balance from that is just going to end in disappointment.

The issue here is that it's accessible, and makes things a ton easier. Coupled with stampede you can place debris perfectly etc.
So ofcourse any guild that are raiding mythic will want to stack the certain classes that makes the fight easier.
And to the healers being shit if they can't heal without fox, not every healer can move and heal, and there is/was a ton of damage on the fight, aspecially prenerf when you got yet another round of demolition.

It's not a pure skill issue as you try to make it seem, and there is no reason to try to offend, I am just saying it how it is, Raids stack hunters, even make other classes reroll to hunter cause of fox, so I am just saying it's too powerful, and it should be removed. So there is no complaint from me there, There will always be an issue with class stacking in one form or another, but the way it went with hunters/mages and moonkins(prenerf) is not the way it should be.

But yeah my point is that any guild will follow the lead with class stacking if the oppertunity arises, you can't deny that, people won't just bash their heads on a wall with subpar tactics/setups when the option is there to stack X class to make a boss easier to handle. And even if you don't play in a top 10 guild it does somewhat matter when you do a kill, you got your own brackets, 2,3,4,5 day a week etc. Don't make it seem like if you don't play 7 days a week you are no one and it doesn't matter. That's not how it works.

[Deleted]

Why do hunters even cry about the removal. Fox removal is indirect buff to hunters actually, kinda big one too, it's a nerf to all other casters and healers, not the other way around.

Just because others are worse you don't get better. That's called team spirit. Get some.

[Finbezz]

The issue here is that it's accessible, and makes things a ton easier. Coupled with stampede you can place debris perfectly etc.
So ofcourse any guild that are raiding mythic will want to stack the certain classes that makes the fight easier.
And to the healers being shit if they can't heal without fox, not every healer can move and heal, and there is/was a ton of damage on the fight, aspecially prenerf when you got yet another round of demolition.

It's not a pure skill issue as you try to make it seem, and there is no reason to try to offend, I am just saying it how it is, Raids stack hunters, even make other classes reroll to hunter cause of fox, so I am just saying it's too powerful, and it should be removed. So there is no complaint from me there, There will always be an issue with class stacking in one form or another, but the way it went with hunters/mages and moonkins(prenerf) is not the way it should be.

But yeah my point is that any guild will follow the lead with class stacking if the oppertunity arises, you can't deny that, people won't just bash their heads on a wall with subpar tactics/setups when the option is there to stack X class to make a boss easier to handle. And even if you don't play in a top 10 guild it does somewhat matter when you do a kill, you got your own brackets, 2,3,4,5 day a week etc. Don't make it seem like if you don't play 7 days a week you are no one and it doesn't matter. That's not how it works.

Again, no one took more than 3 hunters for blackhand to stack fox. 2-3 hunters has been the norm for a long time. There was no class stacking with hunters on a boss that mattered in BRF.

[lanilani26]

I will be glad to see it go. Rest Druids everywhere will mourn.

[Yakshamash]

I always forgetting using it in raids, so wont be missed... Oh, dismissing pet on the run.

[seam]

Iunno, pretty indifferent here.

On one hand, it was helpful for times when you just needed to move.

On the other, I can stop getting bitched at by the mages who don't understand it has a cooldown.

"Fox!"
"I already used it."
"WE NEED IT NOW!"
"IT'S ON COOLDOWN NOW."

[Deleted]

Why do hunters even cry about the removal. Fox removal is indirect buff to hunters actually, kinda big one too, it's a nerf to all other casters and healers, not the other way around.

It's one less reason to bring a hunter to your team. There weren't many reasons to begin with, apart from DPS on the move and Det.

- - - Updated - - -

On the other, I can stop getting bitched at by the mages who don't understand it has a cooldown.

Not a problem if you actually coordinated at what point each Fox is used - makes it predictable and much, much more useful.

[c000]

so not only did they remove it, but in that recent Q&A it seems that hunters won't be getting a replacement utility any time soon.. because "Even without Fox, Hunters are unique in that they are the only ranged DPS that can do nearly everything while on the move, which naturally makes them well-suited to specialized roles on a number of encounters, aside from naturally thriving in high-movement environments. On top of that, Deterrence, Feign Death, Misdirection, and Disengage all allow them to assist with handling mechanics in ways that many other classes cannot."

[Deleted]

Just make it apply a shared debuff like bloodlust, BAM stacking problem gone.

[Faroth]

Do hunters even have aspects anymore?

[galaxyquest]

so not only did they remove it, but in that recent Q&A it seems that hunters won't be getting a replacement utility any time soon.. because "Even without Fox, Hunters are unique in that they are the only ranged DPS that can do nearly everything while on the move, which naturally makes them well-suited to specialized roles on a number of encounters, aside from naturally thriving in high-movement environments. On top of that, Deterrence, Feign Death, Misdirection, and Disengage all allow them to assist with handling mechanics in ways that many other classes cannot."

They also said it's being removed because ranged were just getting a larger (than they already have) advantage over melee with a raid-wide CD.

I guess I kind of agree, because it seems very rare for melee to ever be above ranged on DPS charts.

[c000]

Just make it apply a shared debuff like bloodlust, BAM stacking problem gone.

that would make too much sense.