6.2 DPS utility pruning

[Sickjen]

The title is pretty self-explanatory, what do you think about there removal?

Aspect of the fox removed
Amplify Magic removed

My opinion
DPS utility adds a ton of versatility to a raid environment, especially during a mythic encounter a properly placed fox was amazing. I'm sure it works the same for pvp. I also liked that idea of having small cool downs come from dps like a amp magic. One of my main questions is why remove a abilities you added in 6.0? I know there was major pruning to dps utility back to 6.0 but why continue removing abilities? What's next warriors lose rallying cry or rogues lose smoke bomb? is removing utility really necessary? Thoughts?


Let's keep bashing down be civil

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I brought up Aspect of the Fox to a guildmate of mine.

She said "I never pushed that button."

Utility is nice, but I'd reckon most non-bleeding edge players never used that move.

[Deleted]

I brought up Aspect of the Fox to a guildmate of mine.

She said "I never pushed that button."

Utility is nice, but I'd reckon most non-bleeding edge players never used that move.

This is really far from the reason why it's being removed.

It's not being removed because it's an ability that nobody uses it's being removed because it's an extremely powerful cooldown that makes hunter stacking a thing.

Let's take Mythic Blackhand Phase 1 for example, doing it with 3 Hunters makes it relatively easy, doing it with 2 is a bit more challenging, doing it with 1 is going to be really hard and doing it with 0 is not going to happen anytime soon.

They removed it purely because they want to counter class stacking.

[Paarthurnax]

It doesn't look like they are planning on toning down Mage/Hunter damage (at least not yet) so having them stay top tier dps AND have amazing raid utility just further forces guilds looking to progress in stacking those classes. They did the same kind of thing to warlocks going into WoD with healthstones and gateway utility being toned down.

[Darsithis]

Sometimes reading patch notes it feels almost like Blizzard makes up changes JUST to fill them out. I know they have data to back up all of their changes, but it can feel that way from this end.

[Bigbazz]

It's probably a good change, 6.2 was the right time to make it happen. Hunters/Mages are the strongest dps specs in game, combined with having very powerful utility was silly. It's basically the situation where if a hunter applies to your guild you have no reason to decline him even if you're already running 3 hunters (which is exactly our situation).

The hunters won't really care about losing it either as it has no direct benefit to them, their raid spot is safe because they can already dps on the move with ease and can top the meters with all 3 specs.

[Sickjen]

This is really far from the reason why it's being removed.

It's not being removed because it's an ability that nobody uses it's being removed because it's an extremely powerful cooldown that makes hunter stacking a thing.

Let's take Mythic Blackhand Phase 1 for example, doing it with 3 Hunters makes it relatively easy, doing it with 2 is a bit more challenging, doing it with 1 is going to be really hard and doing it with 0 is not going to happen anytime soon.

They removed it purely because they want to counter class stacking.

Surely though they created that issue by pruning them back in 6.0. They removed a ton of minor raid cooldowns putting some class ahead of others. There will always be class stacking varying on the fight depending on difficulty levels and mechanics. So then we have amp magic, why remove it?

I think a very good move and blizzard part would be remove all minor raid cds and give them to "all melee classes" my reasoning to that would be in most environments ranged is preferred (Stacking ranged to make the fight easier) I guess now the only people left are rogues and warriors with minor cds.

Sometimes reading patch notes it feels almost like Blizzard makes up changes JUST to fill them out. I know they have data to back up all of their changes, but it can feel that way from this end.

Personally i hate the idea of removing anything that could be used to make a environment/encounter more versatile. Removing aspect of the game is real bummer for me and i'm sure other people as well i just wish they would have a good reason not just over simplify the game by removing "raid-wide" abilities. I'm sure there is a good way to do balancing but removing things from the game shouldn't really be the priority way of "balancing" in my opinion. :/

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This is really far from the reason why it's being removed.

It's not being removed because it's an ability that nobody uses it's being removed because it's an extremely powerful cooldown that makes hunter stacking a thing.

Let's take Mythic Blackhand Phase 1 for example, doing it with 3 Hunters makes it relatively easy, doing it with 2 is a bit more challenging, doing it with 1 is going to be really hard and doing it with 0 is not going to happen anytime soon.

They removed it purely because they want to counter class stacking.

I think it's both, probably.

For the average player it's regarded as pointless because "I can already move while casting," and for guilds on the bleeding edge looking for every possible benefit it promotes hunter stacking.

You can't buff it, and if you nerf it you know that it's going to go unused because even in its current state a lot of players don't use it.

[Rivin]

I wouldn't be surprised if they decided that they didn't want mages and hunters to have both Bloodlust and defensive raid cooldowns. The other raid cooldowns from DPS specs weren't removed.

[Count Zero]

Don't get why they couldn't just add a raid debuff after using those abilities, so there's no benefit to stacking for those buffs.

[Varabently]

Don't get why they couldn't just add a raid debuff after using those abilities, so there's no benefit to stacking for those buffs.

Well they have this same sort of tech with battle res effects, so it could be similar, where you sort of get a "charge" to use every 5 minutes or whatever.

[Sickjen]

Well they have this same sort of tech with battle res effects, so it could be similar, where you sort of get a "charge" to use every 5 minutes or whatever.

Kind of like a raid-wide diminishing return. See, the average joe can come up with a valid solution why can't a giant company? I feel sometimes there to quick to remove abilities.

[l33t]

I think its about time. As countless people were saying to Blizzard, giving two unique raid cooldowns to two best dps classes in game was a huge mistake.




As for me personally, I would totally love to have at least one expansion where mage sucks, from first raid tier to last one.

[Deleted]

Fox is just too useful for the hunter themselves I probably used it more personally than I did for raid in majority of cases and amp magic is just a buff for the sake of buffing. What I would like to see is instead of more ability removal, is a rethink on these and maybe other raidwide dps abilities.

Fox could summon a spirit fox to the location and a glowy spirit ground effect giving the ability to movement cast whilst x players are inside for y length.

Amp magic just make it a cone to spray perhaps increase its usefulness to +spell instead of just +heal.

A few other abilities need this kind of rethink as they are just stupidly powerful in certain situations and too easy to stack whilst being raidwide *COUGH* Tranquility

[Sickjen]

Fox is just too useful for the hunter themselves I probably used it more personally than I did for raid in majority of cases and amp magic is just a buff for the sake of buffing. What I would like to see is instead of more ability removal, is a rethink on these and maybe other raidwide dps abilities.

Fox could summon a spirit fox to the location and a glowy spirit ground effect giving the ability to movement cast whilst x players are inside for y length.

Amp magic just make it a cone to spray perhaps increase its usefulness to +spell instead of just +heal.

A few other abilities need this kind of rethink as they are just stupidly powerful in certain situations and too easy to stack whilst being raidwide *COUGH* Tranquility

A better indicator that it's being used like you suggested would've got more casual players using it.

[Kyzawolf]

We have 3 Hunters and we'll always use a fox on Tranq, and one during a particularly long movement phase. We also use Amp Magic during healing intensive times when we're out of big CDs. I feel like both of these being pruned are just to make healers lives more difficult.

[TheMediator]

Fuck Aspect of the Fox. Poisonous design. All ranged and healing classes should have a self-buff that acts like a fox on a 1-2 minute cooldown IMO. Why make something so vital for healing on the move specifically on hunters? It isn't like hunter jobs are going away any time soon.

Good change.

[Blufossa]

This is really far from the reason why it's being removed.

It's not being removed because it's an ability that nobody uses it's being removed because it's an extremely powerful cooldown that makes hunter stacking a thing.

Let's take Mythic Blackhand Phase 1 for example, doing it with 3 Hunters makes it relatively easy, doing it with 2 is a bit more challenging, doing it with 1 is going to be really hard and doing it with 0 is not going to happen anytime soon.

They removed it purely because they want to counter class stacking.

The point is- no one cares. Maybe the "top end" raiders care, but most people just raid to have fun with friends. I honestly know 0 people who raid seriously.

It's a video game, not a real sport.

Also, I miss class stacking. More than one Bloodlust? Hell yeah!

Fuck Aspect of the Fox. Poisonous design. All ranged and healing classes should have a self-buff that acts like a fox on a 1-2 minute cooldown IMO. Why make something so vital for healing on the move specifically on hunters? It isn't like hunter jobs are going away any time soon.

Good change.

No utility on DPS outside of actual damage- community cries there's no diversity/utility and that healers are all the same.
Blizzard gives DPS certain gimmicks/utility spell- community cries that it's OP and needs to be removed.

You can't have it both ways. I prefer utility and usefulness. (Yes, even if it means class stacking from the top morons.)

[l33t]

You can't have it both ways. I prefer utility and usefulness. (Yes, even if it means class stacking from the top morons.)

See, problem is, there is absolutely zero reasons to take for example warlock to your raid, when you can take a hunter instead and gain not only a ton of damage dealt, but also an imbalanced mega raid cooldown. Same stuff with mage.

We had once a great system of pure damage dealers who were in charge of dealing most damage, and support classes who were in charge of buffing pures. So, anyone had something to help their raid with. Nowadays its either you go with mage or hunter and are useful to your raid, or go with anyone else and are a burden to your raid. Feel free to think it is a good game design, but in reality it is not.

[Deleted]

The point is- no one cares. Maybe the "top end" raiders care, but most people just raid to have fun with friends. I honestly know 0 people who raid seriously.

It's a video game, not a real sport.

Just because you don't take it seriously or don't think that other people should doesn't mean that the developers should just ignore the top end players, which by the way are the most loyal customers that will keep playing as long as the game is fun and balanced.

The point is a few people care, and those people are usually the ones Blizzard changes the game around.