Linux OS and WoW performance

[Vash The Stampede]

So, on reading through what you have said above, I either install PlayonLinux with CMST (I have no clue what that is btw) OR I choose Wine and use the code you offered.

Wine has to translate Direct 3D to OpenGL but current Wine does this with a single CPU core. CSMT (command stream multi-threading) is code the developers have been working on that speeds this up by using multiple CPU cores for a dramatic speed increase. For whatever reason the code never made it to Wine, but somehow made it to CrossOver by codeweavers who fork Wine.

So some people take Wine and patch it to get CSMT.

I opted to just use your code, then started reading through the links. I'm supposed to:


I'm not in Linux just now to check, but I couldn't find the WINEPREFIX registry.
As for StrictDrawOrdering, I find it's listed twice, one is enabled and one is disabled. By checking the boxes at the side of those options, I was unsure what they would do, so just left them.

Oh and! when following some of that code, and installing winetricks, I got some big run on errors again, all connected with Radeon. I didn't PrtSc it, but it looked very similar to the bunch of errors I got when installing kernel 4.0.

You just type regedit in terminal and you get a familiar regedit like in Windows. Then just do exactly what this picture shows for CSMT enabled. You don't have to do anything else. You need to create a Direct3D entry most likely.

[Deleted]

Wine allows user to keep multiple "system settings" they are called WINEPREFIXes so if you did not create custom one yourself or by following some guide you should probably ignore that part and carry on with changing the registry. Can't tell you for sure though, it's been year since I've used wine for anything non trivial.
http://wiki.winehq.org/UsefulRegistryKeys
http://wine-wiki.org/index.php/WINEPREFIX

This seems counter productive to me. You want bleeding edge system, yet you opt to install distribution with fixed release update model which will always be behind. That makes you try to "keep up" by manually or semi manually installing updated components which is not easy, especially for somebody new to the environment. Personally I'd look for a bleeding edge(or nearly) rolling release distribution and start there. And by that I mean Arch Linux or one of its easier to use offspring like Manjaro(little less bleeding edge but still good) or something from Gentoo stable(was not to my liking can't advice anything here).

I'm not telling you to jump ship and forget about mint, I've used it myself and liked it for the most part. But when/if you want to keep up to date it things can become problematic.
If you ever get to the point where you think "Screw it, I've messed this up too much gonna reinstall", consider giving other distro a go. Arch installation is manual and daunting but you could learn alot and it has good beginners guide which should have you up and running if you have enough patience are read carefully. Manjaro will probably do most of the work for you(like mint installer) since it aims to be user friendly - can't promise anything though have not used it ;p

[Deleted]

You just type regedit in terminal and you get a familiar regedit like in Windows. Then just do exactly what this picture shows for CSMT enabled. You don't have to do anything else. You need to create a Direct3D entry most likely.

OK! pretty sure I've done that now, looky

Thanks too for the explanations, that helps.

So how about Gallium Nine, I can't find where I should enable that, I followed the instructions "Remember to use the checkbox in Winecfg->Graphics to enable Nine!" but I have nothing listed there :/

Slight pause on my work today btw, I accidentally removed something I shouldn't and broke my mint! Dumb I know but was bound to happen sooner or later. I might have to do a new install. It's there and works but I have no software manager and a few other things missing, can't remember what now, as I'm back on windows on my HD.

#NoobLife

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I'm not telling you to jump ship and forget about mint, I've used it myself and liked it for the most part. But when/if you want to keep up to date it things can become problematic.
If you ever get to the point where you think "Screw it, I've messed this up too much gonna reinstall", consider giving other distro a go. Arch installation is manual and daunting but you could learn alot and it has good beginners guide which should have you up and running if you have enough patience are read carefully. Manjaro will probably do most of the work for you(like mint installer) since it aims to be user friendly - can't promise anything though have not used it ;p

Thanks too for the advice and links, I had seen those before, just wasn't sure what they were.
I have felt like "screw this" a few times already, but I refuse to back down now. I do completely understand the points you made though, they are of course very valid. If I wanted a stable perfect system that I was comfortable maintaining and trouble-shooting, I wouldn't be doing this. And worse case scenario, I still have a full system with Windows on my HD, so really I have nothing to lose, other than my time and sanity!

I'm actually not playing WoW at the moment either, I've just let my sub drop and am taking a break, so this little project is filling a gap. I think as I've started with Mint, I will stick to this until I'm at a level where I actually know what I'm doing. Then of course I probably will want to try something new, so thanks for the recommendations

[Vash The Stampede]

So how about Gallium Nine, I can't find where I should enable that, I followed the instructions "Remember to use the checkbox in Winecfg->Graphics to enable Nine!" but I have nothing listed there :/

If you installed Forest's PPA then there isn't Gallium Nine. You'd have to remove Wine and Forest PPA and then add Sarnex PPA which is Gallium Nine enabled. You can remove or disable PPA's through software sources.



This is one of the benefits of using PlayOnLinux cause you can use both a Gallium Nine version and CSMT version of Wine cause you can install as many versions of Wine as you please. As far as I know nobody has patched Wine to have both. Would be cool if someone did that.

[Deleted]

If you installed Forest's PPA then there isn't Gallium Nine. You'd have to remove Wine and Forest PPA and then add Sarnex PPA which is Gallium Nine enabled. You can remove or disable PPA's through software sources.

This is one of the benefits of using PlayOnLinux cause you can use both a Gallium Nine version and CSMT version of Wine cause you can install as many versions of Wine as you please. As far as I know nobody has patched Wine to have both. Would be cool if someone did that.

OK! Now I'm understanding a bit more. I had used pretty much all those codes you provided in an earlier post

I did a fresh install of Mint last night, so was back to square one. Something happened/went wrong, no clue what, and again I couldn't login. I will try to find out how to get in the system when login won't allow you, I did have the error message written down and had googled it with not much luck (before the fresh install) but have lost the message now. I will persevere some more with that today and if I fail again, it will be another fresh install! Still not giving up though.

Thanks for all your help and advice Dukenukemx! At least I know that it's possible to get WoW running nicely and I will eventually get there. I need to conquer this first before I progress further and have enough confidence/knowledge to troubleshoot for WoW. Rather than bug you daily, I will let this thread rest a while, but hopefully will be back to let you know how WoW is running, when I get there

[Vash The Stampede]

It's not very well explained in the linux community how repositories work. Took me a while to figure it out myself. Basically a repository is someone who maintains code for installation and you trust that person not to do anything bad to your machine. Lets say you just freshly installed Ubuntu on your PC and you want to install Wine.

sudo apt-get install Wine

Ubuntu will install Wine 1.6 because that's the latest official release. Cause you're going through Ubuntu's repository to get Wine. But lets install the official Wine PPA.

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa

Now if you try to install Wine 1.7 you need to type.

sudo apt-get install Wine1.7

So long as you do "sudo apt-get update" Ubuntu will know what's the latest version of Wine and install it. Every time you add a PPA you have to use this command to rescan all your PPA's for updates. But if you installed the Sarnex version of Wine.

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:commendsarnex/winedri3

You now have both Wine's official repository and Sarnex's. Which gets tricky as whoever has the latest version will get installed on your machine. Which is why you have to enter software sources to disable or remove the PPA's you don't want, or "sudo add-apt-repository -r ppa:<ppa to remove>" to remove the PPA through terminal.

Personally I would try to get native linux games running through Steam. Get your drivers and everything working first with a simple game like Dota2 and go from there. Larix has a point about using Arch linux cause unlike Debian based distro like Ubuntu and Mint, Arch is constantly up to date. That's it's thing. Where Debian based distros tend to stick with what works. I never tried Arch but if I did I would try Manjaro Linux, cause it's the friendly version of Arch. Also keep in mind that Steam isn't officially supported on Arch. Also the community for Ubuntu is extremely large, so it helps.

Debian, Ubuntu, and Mint all operate the same way. So generally what works on one will work on the other distros.

[Kuntantee]

I am patient and am capable of solving problems through googling, did a fair bit tonight. As for poor performance - nope, I'm not expecting that, but we'll see.

Do expect it. Most games are not natively compiled/ported for linux. That means you will be using run-time bindings for various stuff. Emulation is overhead. One notable example is event/window behavior emulation. I think wow uses windows-only window/event management (direct input?). Since you don't have that in linux (you have X11), they are emulated by some software, in most case, it is wine. Also engine code may not be optimized to run on libgl. I actually haven't tried it for a while. Maybe its quite okay now...Last time I played wow on linux, I was raiding in 3.2 patch.

I made a mistake while mentioning a gaming project on linux. The correct name is PlayOnLinux, again I haven't tried it.

Btw, Debian Jessie is about to be released. Anyone using debian? Finally, I will be able to compile c++11 without headache

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Wine has to translate Direct 3D to OpenGL but current Wine does this with a single CPU core.

Not necessarily for games which supports libgl.

[Vash The Stampede]

Do expect it. Most games are not natively compiled/ported for linux. That means you will be using run-time bindings for various stuff. Emulation is overhead. One notable example is event/window behavior emulation. I think wow uses windows-only window/event management (direct input?). Since you don't have that in linux (you have X11), they are emulated by some software, in most case, it is wine. Also engine code may not be optimized to run on libgl. I actually haven't tried it for a while. Maybe its quite okay now...Last time I played wow on linux, I was raiding in 3.2 patch.

There are some people that claim to get better performance using Wine on Linux over Windows for WoW. Especially when it comes to lag and latency as Linux handles this better than Windows. Also Alt+Tab in Linux is seamless unlike Windows where bad things can happen. I would love to test this myself since Linux evolves super fast. The past year I've had Mass Effect a game from 2007 through Origin running on my Laptop with a 2.5Ghz i3 with a Radeon HD 6370m. The game was a slide show at first with open source drivers but after a while with updates and using Gallium Nine the game is now playable.

Unfortunately I don't play WoW at the moment cause Ret Paladins are terrible I hear. They still can't get into RBGs, which how long have RBGs been around? Anyway, can't test WOW.

[Kuntantee]

There are some people that claim to get better performance using Wine on Linux over Windows for WoW. Especially when it comes to lag and latency as Linux handles this better than Windows. Also Alt+Tab in Linux is seamless unlike Windows where bad things can happen. I would love to test this myself since Linux evolves super fast. The past year I've had Mass Effect a game from 2007 through Origin running on my Laptop with a 2.5Ghz i3 with a Radeon HD 6370m. The game was a slide show at first with open source drivers but after a while with updates and using Gallium Nine the game is now playable.

Unfortunately I don't play WoW at the moment cause Ret Paladins are terrible I hear. They still can't get into RBGs, which how long have RBGs been around? Anyway, can't test WOW.

I didn't touch linux gaming for at least 5 years or so. You are right, things may be far better now. Need to give it a try and will do soonly after I finish writing my thesis. Mzchief can report his/her experience tho

[Artorius]

I'd seriously say to stick to the mainstream Windows when it comes to playing games (personally, I'd say to stick to it unless you need a UNIX based system, for something like building Android for example).
It's all fun and games when that title has Linux support, it'll most likely work at comparable performance to it's Windows counterpart, but when it doesn't (and it normally doesn't), you'll have to rely on workarounds that may or may not work properly depending on the software. Sometimes you'll get not so bad performance and sometimes you'll get unplayable performance, it's a roller coaster of inconsistency. It's still a nice hobby and learning new things is always useful, Linux has it's strong points but realistically speaking, gaming isn't one of them.

[Kuntantee]

(personally, I'd say to stick to it unless you need a UNIX based system, for something like building Android for example).

I disagree. From a super-user's perspective, you can't even compare linux with anything (be it osx or windows).

[Artorius]

I disagree. From a super-user's perspective, you can't even compare linux with anything (be it osx or windows).

That's why I said personally, it's just my opinion. Different users have different needs and different preferences. Thing is, try giving a Linux system to the average user, he/she will freak out at the very first sudo.

Windows is the mainstream PC system and wanting or not most things are made to run at it. We do have alternatives at Linux for almost any widely-used Windows software, Libre-Office for MS Office or Gimp for Photoshop. But when it comes to games, you'll have to rely on workarounds.

[Deleted]

It's not very well explained in the linux community how repositories work. Took me a while to figure it out myself. Basically a repository is someone who maintains code for installation and you trust that person not to do anything bad to your machine. Lets say you just freshly installed Ubuntu on your PC and you want to install Wine....

You now have both Wine's official repository and Sarnex's. Which gets tricky as whoever has the latest version will get installed on your machine. Which is why you have to enter software sources to disable or remove the PPA's you don't want, or "sudo add-apt-repository -r ppa:<ppa to remove>" to remove the PPA through terminal.

I realised early on that there were different ways to install software and found that very confusing! I have downloaded a .deb and installed just like I would in Windows.. I have used software manager and the terminal get-apt. But finally, after doing a lot of work with it, I think I understand how each different one works. In this case of the Wine official and Sarnex, then I would disable/remove the Wine one to allow for Sarnex updates only right?

Do expect it.

Ok, I will expect it then. But, I am still going to give it a try first. I'm actually less worried about WoW and more about keybindings for my Razer Naga! I have googled and seen some alternatives, but we will see. If it really is so bad and lots of hard work, I can always keep Windows on my HD and just use it for WoW.

Unfortunately I don't play WoW at the moment cause Ret Paladins are terrible I hear. They still can't get into RBGs, which how long have RBGs been around? Anyway, can't test WOW.

Ret Paladins, before WoD weren't the best choice for RBG's. I believe they are way better now though. You should perhaps give it another try

To summarise instead of lots of individual replies.. I'm not giving this up. I had wanted to try Linux for a long time, but yes WoW had held me back. For now, I have enjoyed installing Linux Mint three times! It's a learning curve, and yes can be frustrating, but there's nothing wrong with taking one step back to move two steps forward

My current motivator is that I'm pissed with Windows! I'm not a hater, it's served me very well for a long time. But more recently, it's pushing my buttons

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If you ever get to the point where you think "Screw it, I've messed this up too much gonna reinstall", consider giving other distro a go. Arch installation is manual and daunting but you could learn alot and it has good beginners guide which should have you up and running if you have enough patience are read carefully. Manjaro will probably do most of the work for you(like mint installer) since it aims to be user friendly - can't promise anything though have not used it ;p

I had forgotten to reply this earlier... but yes, I did take a look at Arch and Manjaro. Honestly, they look really good, well at least the YT reviews I watched made them look appealing. I'm not against trying anything out and probably will change in the future. But for now, I'm feeling comfortable with Mint and I really don't mind using "get-apt" over "pacman"

Thanks for the recommendation though because overall it does look good. I like that you choose how you're building it as you install it. That's something I like alot!

PS. I may seem to be progressing slow, that's because I am still learning/googling and trouble-shooting a lot, plus I also don't have lots of free time atm #snailpace.

[Vash The Stampede]

In this case of the Wine official and Sarnex, then I would disable/remove the Wine one to allow for Sarnex updates only right?

Yes, but in software sources there's usually two names associated with the PPA and the names are hard to determine which PPA. Making it hard to find it and then having to disable two things.

Ok, I will expect it then. But, I am still going to give it a try first. I'm actually less worried about WoW and more about keybindings for my Razer Naga! I have googled and seen some alternatives, but we will see. If it really is so bad and lots of hard work, I can always keep Windows on my HD and just use it for WoW.

Mice and specialty devices do not get full support on Linux. For Razer devices like the Naga you need Razer device configuration tool. It works but nothing supplied by Razer themselves. Logitech devices will need Solaar. Again no support from Logitech themselves. All the devices will work as soon as you plug it in but any extra features needs these kind of tools.

Ret Paladins, before WoD weren't the best choice for RBG's. I believe they are way better now though. You should perhaps give it another try

Thought about it but the people in the Paladin forums say it's bad. I'm watching the 6.2 patch to see how it plays out.

My current motivator is that I'm pissed with Windows! I'm not a hater, it's served me very well for a long time. But more recently, it's pushing my buttons

That's the reason why I got into linux as well. I like how Linux updates compared to Windows. I like how it doesn't need antivirus. I like how I don't need 10 startup programs after I'm done installing my software. I can replace my motherboard without worrying about reinstalling the OS or maybe verifying my copy of Windows to Microsoft.

But I still use Windows on my desktop computer because of games. The list of native games for Linux is growing but not there yet. As much effort Valve puts into Steam, both Blizzard and EA don't seem to care at all about porting their games to Linux. Which means Wine and Wine isn't good. You'll find that 90% of problems you'll deal with on Linux is because Wine sucks.

[Kuntantee]

Ok, I will expect it then. But, I am still going to give it a try first. I'm actually less worried about WoW and more about keybindings for my Razer Naga! I have googled and seen some alternatives, but we will see. If it really is so bad and lots of hard work, I can always keep Windows on my HD and just use it for WoW.

Yes, give it a try . X is highly customizable. I am using my capslock as hyper even tho my computer has no hyper button physically. Try your buttons with xev, if X catches signals, then you can reassign via setxkbmap if the application is not directly catching events.

By the way, if anyone here is considering to change distro or install one, I highly suggest Debian Jessie. It's amazing.

[Vash The Stampede]

By the way, if anyone here is considering to change distro or install one, I highly suggest Debian Jessie. It's amazing.

Mint team makes a Debian version of Mint. Though compared to Ubuntu 15.04 and Debian Jessie the Mint guys are a bit behind. They decided to focus more on Cinnamon than keeping the OS up to date. Mint 17.1 is essentially Ubuntu 14.04. It'll be like that for 17.2 and 17.3.

I use Debian and not a big fan in how they treat non open source software. To give you an idea there's no FireFox. They call it iceweasel due to issues with the name being a trademark. They are on the extreme end of open source. And Iceweasel is outdated as hell. You could install FireFox or Chrome like you do in Ubuntu/Mint but why? But there's no codecs or Adobe Flash either, which is extra work you have to do to get basic web browsing working. Or you could install Ubuntu/Mint and move on with your life.

Personally think the Mint team should forget about Ubuntu as well. They make a Debian version and a lot of the new things Ubuntu has done is questionable lately. Also Valve's SteamOS is Debian based as well so yea. There's a good reason for that.

[Deleted]

Yes, but in software sources there's usually two names associated with the PPA and the names are hard to determine which PPA. Making it hard to find it and then having to disable two things.

Would this window be of any help? Although I guess Sarnex won't be there, I didn't check and I'm back on my HD/Windows now.

Mice and specialty devices do not get full support on Linux. For Razer devices like the Naga you need Razer device configuration tool. It works but nothing supplied by Razer themselves.

I found that exact same thing myself and will get around to trying that out. I will be playing WoW again soon, whether it's on Linux or Windows and will definitely need my Naga settings. I have so much on there, wish I didn't now though

That's the reason why I got into linux as well. I like how Linux updates compared to Windows. I like how it doesn't need antivirus. I like how I don't need 10 startup programs after I'm done installing my software. I can replace my motherboard without worrying about reinstalling the OS or maybe verifying my copy of Windows to Microsoft.

I was making a list of software I need to install on Linux and apart from WoW and related things, it's really only Skype (which I have installed now) and Tor Browser. I don't have to install Ccleaner, Malwarebytes or Housecall (AV)! I did some tweaking of my desktop earlier, just to make it prettier, you might like my desktop

Yes, give it a try . X is highly customizable. I am using my capslock as hyper even tho my computer has no hyper button physically. Try your buttons with xev, if X catches signals, then you can reassign via setxkbmap if the application is not directly catching events.

Thanks! I can give that a try too, if that Razer config tool doesn't work.

I enjoy looking up the other distro's too that get discussed here - Jesse from Toy Story sounds so full of win!

[Vash The Stampede]

Would this window be of any help? Although I guess Sarnex won't be there, I didn't check and I'm back on my HD/Windows now.

Sarnex maintains a PPA. That wouldn't be there in PlayOnLinux. Stick with the x86 section as it's 32-bit and more compatible than amd64. Also there's a 1.7.40-gallium-nine version in the x86 section. I rarely use PlayOnLinux cause I'm more proficient with PPA's now that I don't need to.

I was making a list of software I need to install on Linux and apart from WoW and related things, it's really only Skype (which I have installed now) and Tor Browser. I don't have to install Ccleaner, Malwarebytes or Housecall (AV)! I did some tweaking of my desktop earlier, just to make it prettier, you might like my desktop

You can install themes but I've yet to find one that's awesome like I've seen other people have.

[Kuntantee]

Mint team makes a Debian version of Mint. Though compared to Ubuntu 15.04 and Debian Jessie the Mint guys are a bit behind. They decided to focus more on Cinnamon than keeping the OS up to date. Mint 17.1 is essentially Ubuntu 14.04. It'll be like that for 17.2 and 17.3.

I use Debian and not a big fan in how they treat non open source software. To give you an idea there's no FireFox. They call it iceweasel due to issues with the name being a trademark. They are on the extreme end of open source. And Iceweasel is outdated as hell. You could install FireFox or Chrome like you do in Ubuntu/Mint but why? But there's no codecs or Adobe Flash either, which is extra work you have to do to get basic web browsing working. Or you could install Ubuntu/Mint and move on with your life.

Personally think the Mint team should forget about Ubuntu as well. They make a Debian version and a lot of the new things Ubuntu has done is questionable lately. Also Valve's SteamOS is Debian based as well so yea. There's a good reason for that.

The problem with Firefox occured because Debian team wanted to change source code and Mozilla said

Fuck you, if you wanna change the source code, you can not use my logo and name

and Debian said

So be it

And they changed the name and logo, or at least this is the story I know. They are using same code as Firefox but only security fixes and a different logo. Debian has non-free repositories, I am using Skype and Steam at the moment. Also Debian is a server OS, they trade off being up-to-date for stability and security but they have 3 "branches" at a given time, stable (Jessie), testing (Stretch) and unstable (Sed). As you go from stable to unstable, you get newer stuff but less stability and possibly less security.


One problem with all Distros is they lack a professional touch necessary for end-users. You can not use Linux at the moment, if you do not want to deal with problems, all the time. I am fine with it as I am a super-user already but I can't imagine my father using any linux distro. He can barely use windows. SteamOS, in that regard, is one of the most interesting projects I've seen in recent years.

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Thanks! I can give that a try too, if that Razer config tool doesn't work.

I enjoy looking up the other distro's too that get discussed here - Jesse from Toy Story sounds so full of win!

Names from Toy Story was a good PR element for Debian

[Vash The Stampede]

One problem with all Distros is they lack a professional touch necessary for end-users. You can not use Linux at the moment, if you do not want to deal with problems, all the time. I am fine with it as I am a super-user already but I can't imagine my father using any linux distro. He can barely use windows. SteamOS, in that regard, is one of the most interesting projects I've seen in recent years.

That's not true. I've installed Mint and Ubuntu for people that are limited to web browsing. They are perfectly fine using it. The issue are those who want bleeding edge code. Especially gamers who need bleeding edge code to get games relatively working.

You can install Ubuntu 15.05 and be using Nvidia graphics without much of any issue. AMD and Intel users will need bleeding code for games. If there's a game that isn't native on Linux then you need Wine and that's a whole new ball game of trouble. I tried installing Dark Souls 1 on my Mint setup and with Gallium Nine it would run extremely slow. With Gallium Nine disabled the speed is fine except for the white flicker. Which there is a way to fix it but requires me to replace some files for the game. Not all games benefit from Gallium Nine, but most games do benefit from CSMT.