Fast-food strikes widen into social-justice movement

[Fugus]

Yeah, I understand, and agree, but unfortunately he and many like him are leaning in on this debate, so when it comes to voting and getting things done, I think when the language isn't specific or the topic is allowed to stray for the over all point, well then this is what you get.


And the fact is right now people are suffering, because they can't live on work, thus Welfare people complain about so much, and all the other trappings that go along with it.


My point is that it is a social, and economic responsibility of any company doing business, and it is a cost associated with doing that business that shouldn't be dismissed, it isn't about if you work hard, it isn't about well if such and such would do this, or do that, it isn't about any other issue besides, Do you believe people should get paid a livable wage, THEN next is 15$ an hour realistic and manageable or do we actually need to examine some other elements of that formula that make up 10$ or 15$ being the wage?


On a personal note my PERSONAL opinion, I think this 25$ in NYC vs 15 in New Jersey is irrelevant, and if anything is counter productive.

I can understand some leaning on both sides of the debate, just gets so annoying watching someone get debunked on the same rhetoric over and over again and keep trying to say it again. Kinda like after watching someone tell you to get a job 5 times in a row while you are working. It goes from the level of willful ignorance at that point.

For me, I honestly couldn't tell you about New York level wages because I have never been there in my life, but I have heard that it is pretty expensive.

As far as at the national level, I would like to see it set to $15 nationally and tied to inflation but phased in over the course of about 10 years or so so the companies finally hit that point but slow enough that they aren't hit by a huge shock. Then possibly having a state level minimum wage for the places where it honestly costs beyond that to achieve the same standard of living.

I personally see $15 an hour as totally doable by the current systems after adjusting prices and maybe profit margins some. With the long term benefit of a stronger minimum wage being increasing purchasing power for both the lower and middle class which will spur the economy and increase demand as a whole which is actually is the true job creator in the US and will actually allow many more to open up their own companies if they wished.

The sad thing about paying their fair share when it comes to companies:
if none of them do it, everyone suffers in the long run,
if all of them do it, everyone benefits in the long run,
but if everyone does it but one person, everyone benefits some, but they benefit more.
And if no one does it but one person, everyone still suffers with that company suffering more.

So without laws forcing this stuff, most never will do it unless they have the pull to do it and pull it off.

[Kellhound]

First, my god I missed a lot on this thread, not bothering to read it all, just skimming past the last few pages.

Wanted to point out that government aid is not exactly easy to get.

I personally have been out of work since January of 2014, my last 6 months at that job I would have technically been unemployable but had my managers looking the other way to avoid being required to fire me. This is due to an injury in March of 2012 that kept getting progressively worse (Military medical malpractice....)

At this point, the doctors has told me I will probably never be able to hold down a job again with the nerve damage I have. After all this, the Department of Veteran Affairs has me at 50% ($830 per month) and trying to leave me homeless or dead if they can. With the doctors on my side and helping, it will still take another year to 2 years before they finally stop fighting me, I HOPE. It took them from 2012 till about October of last year before they put me at 50% and took the doctors fighting for me for that.

So, while dealing with this, I applied for SSI so I had some sort of income to survive on till the VA was done. I started that paperwork in January of 2014, I currently have been denied twice and my current appeal will put me in front of a judge, in about 8 more MONTHS from now.

So many who are injured and really medically shouldn't be working and hurting themselves more are stuck taking these same bullshit jobs while trying to survive while hoping for aid.


And still, it really comes down to the point that anyone working a full time job should be able to live a decent life. That includes having a family. They shouldn't be required to hold off on starting a family for 10 years hoping to work up the ranks. No one wants to be the parents who wait till they are too old before they finally have child. This isn't even asking for something new, this is asking for what we had in the 1960s and 1970s.

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How much above minimum wage? Only local telephone jobs I heard of last I checked paid about $8 an hour.

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Actually, what stops automation in fast food is the fact that many customer surveys found that many customers disliked the thought of machines making their food. They are already cheaper than a worker in the long run.

The moment the customers change their mind on that, the jobs are gone regardless.

And the funny thing about people fighting to avoid paying them a living wage.

People have the choices of:

1) Pay them a living wage.
2) Pay them a unlivable wage and then subsidize that pay with welfare that the taxpayers cover.
3) Fire them to avoid paying a living wage which then forced them to live entirely off of Welfare costing the tax payers even more.

Option 1 is most viable option there long term, but people try to fight it hoping to stay with #2 and while the companies issues hollow threats of #3 which will happen regardless in the long run and in the short run won't happen as they still need the employees to get the job done.

I was making $12 an hour with full benefits.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I can understand some leaning on both sides of the debate

So can I, which is why I am passionate about it

just gets so annoying watching someone get debunked on the same rhetoric over and over again

Only bothers me, if where they are coming from doesn't have anything to do with getting something done, or being helpful.

and keep trying to say it again. Kinda like after watching someone tell you to get a job 5 times in a row while you are working. It goes from the level of willful ignorance at that point.

In this day and age it isn't always ignorance, but I understand where you are coming from, if someone is joking it is a lot more funny than if they are serious in some cases.

For me, I honestly couldn't tell you about New York level wages because I have never been there in my life, but I have heard that it is pretty expensive.

Yeah, which is why I am kind of against this whole argument of 25$ here or 15$ over there, because sometimes the price to compete, really isn't worth it, I think some might even pay a hell of a lot more than 50$ an Hour to lower competition and the population size all in one area. I also think the different livable wages allows for abuse.

As far as at the national level, I would like to see it set to $15 nationally and tied to inflation but phased in over the course of about 10 years or so so the companies finally hit that point but slow enough that they aren't hit by a huge shock. Then possibly having a state level minimum wage for the places where it honestly costs beyond that to achieve the same standard of living.

I personally see $15 an hour as totally doable by the current systems after adjusting prices and maybe profit margins some. With the long term benefit of a stronger minimum wage being increasing purchasing power for both the lower and middle class which will spur the economy and increase demand as a whole which is actually is the true job creator in the US and will actually allow many more to open up their own companies if they wished.

The sad thing about paying their fair share when it comes to companies:
if none of them do it, everyone suffers in the long run,
if all of them do it, everyone benefits in the long run,
but if everyone does it but one person, everyone benefits some, but they benefit more.
And if no one does it but one person, everyone still suffers with that company suffering more.

So without laws forcing this stuff, most never will do it unless they have the pull to do it and pull it off.

I agree but a lot of this fight has happened for so long, and has been such a long time coming, that by the time it might be 15$ an hour that might not be a livable wage.


So to me the issue is Livable wages, whatever that is, the compromise after is going to have to be 25$ in NYC maybe versus 12$ in Kentucky that is the reality. Which is why as I said, the numbers aren't as important and being side tracked on other factors about who works, hard and who isn't working hard enough are probolamatic at best, and a excuse at worst.