Tell me how to play Sylvanas

[Lesane]

sorry but last time I checked my last WF hit for 500 each. would say thrall sucks. Not as srong as before the nerf but his single target hit dmg is crazy.

WF is nothing more than an auto attack that gives passive stacks. Yes he has the hardest hitting auto attack in the game, but that doesn't make him good. Also, block fucks his damage big time because of it. The fact is that other specialists and assassins are just straight up better than he is.

If literally the only thing you look at is teamfights then yes.

But if that's the ONLY thing you care about, why even take a specialist? Except maybe Zagara for her worm.

Because a lot of specialists are straight up better assassins than assassins themselves.

Is it "mandatory" to take envenom on her? I really like the double passive duration in the same tier for soloing bruisers, so i'm not sure which one to take (only level 6 on her atm).

Envenom is too good to pass up on pretty much any hero that can get it. I think Zagara, Murky and Brightwing are the only ones that don't get it 100%.

[Mormolyce]

She's a specialist?

She probably puts out less lane pressure than azmodan?

I don't know what you're doing with your Sylvanas if she puts out less lane pressure than Azmo.

Is it "mandatory" to take envenom on her? I really like the double passive duration in the same tier for soloing bruisers, so i'm not sure which one to take (only level 6 on her atm).

No, you'll miss it though :P

Because a lot of specialists are straight up better assassins than assassins themselves.

And said specialists need nerfs

[Simulacrum]

She is. Just in different ways.

Thrall was an amazing hero killer, Sylvanas can lock down 2 turrets at once. Or a fort.

And her possession has a 4 second cooldown and can be used on mercs if upgraded. Basically you take a camp and she turns it against you in 8 seconds for Siege and 16 for Knights.

You should never pick possession, outside of maybe bot games where it doesn't matter what you pick or do.

Thrall was broken before his nerfs. Yes, he could be countered if you had heroes that could lock him down or kite him, and then just 100-0 him before he had the ability to auto-attack anyone, but if you didn't have that (like, say, in quick match) he could be unstoppable. He could walk up to 2 turrets and destroy them both in no time at all while healing faster than they did damage. He could realistically 1v5 a team. It was ridiculous, and nowhere even remotely close to Sylvanas' current state. Though they did go overboard with the nerfs on him, as blizzard is fond of doing.

Sylvanas only puts out good lane pressure if left completely alone. Even with one opponent in a lane, her real pressure goes way downhill. (Besides, "lane pressure" is a fairly small component of the game most of the time)

She always puts on extreme lane pressure as long as the person playing her doesn't suck... before lvl 7. After lvl 7 she pushes harder than any other hero in the entire game.

Having strong lane pressure usually means that you join the teamfight at full health with decent mana, while your opponent joins it near-dead or not at all because he's back at base regenerating. And it helps take down forts faster, since theirs will be battered (or even gone) when the lane phase ends, while yours will still be healthy. It also often draws multiple people to your lane to hold you off, which makes things easier for your team. Sometimes, it gets you kills. I murder tons of people in 2v1 lanes as zagara. It's really important for the first, like, 10 lvls. Even after that, being able to push very hard (like she does better than anyone else in the game) is very important, since you don't end up wasting as much time clearing waves.

[Mormolyce]

Sylvanas only puts out good lane pressure if left completely alone. Even with one opponent in a lane, her real pressure goes way downhill. (Besides, "lane pressure" is a fairly small component of the game most of the time)

Again, I don't know what you're doing with your Sylvanas. Her shadow dagger clears waves almost passively, while protecting her own waves. She can devote 100% of her time to pressuring opposing heroes out of lane while her push continues uninterrupted.

[Deleted]

Again, I don't know what you're doing with your Sylvanas. Her shadow dagger clears waves almost passively, while protecting her own waves. She can devote 100% of her time to pressuring opposing heroes out of lane while her push continues uninterrupted.

Most heroes can easily poke her out of lane. She's a squish.

her win rate being 50-51% speaks for itself. She's an average, operational, functional hero. She works.

[Mormolyce]

Most heroes can easily poke her out of lane. She's a squish.

If that's a problem then you really aren't laning with her properly, very few heroes can push Sylvanas out of lane for more than a few seconds. She pokes far more effectively than they poke her.

The only other hero who has as much lane domination is Zagara, and she clears waves slower and can't shield her waves from the towers/minions like Syl does. She's also relatively weaker at lower levels.

[Lesane]

Most heroes can easily poke her out of lane. She's a squish.

her win rate being 50-51% speaks for itself. She's an average, operational, functional hero. She works.

I really don't see how anyone besides Thrall, Zagara or Brightwing can poke her out of a 1v1 lane.

[Deleted]

I really don't see how anyone besides Thrall, Zagara or Brightwing can poke her out of a 1v1 lane.

Jaina, Valla, Falstad and some Gazlowe players have managed to poke me out of lane. Some Nova and Zerathul players as well (before i realized i had low graphics ).

[Simulacrum]

Except by the time you're at the stage where teamfights are mattering, you'd better not be running around lanes solo anyway. You just can't do that and be truly effective past the level 10 mark or so.

Teamfights (or at least fights between groups of 2-3 people outside of your lane) start at like lvl 3-4 on most maps, unless one team just doesn't contest objectives.

[Lesane]

Jaina, Valla, Falstad and some Gazlowe players have managed to poke me out of lane. Some Nova and Zerathul players as well (before i realized i had low graphics ).

You're doing something wrong then. 3 of those characters have really blatantly telegraphed and expectable damaging spells that are easy to dodge as Sylvanas. With Gazlowe you just have to pay attention and not eat turret shots.

[Simulacrum]

Most heroes can easily poke her out of lane. She's a squish.

her win rate being 50-51% speaks for itself. She's an average, operational, functional hero. She works.

What's winrate got to do with your claim that she's easy to poke out of lane? Zagara's winrate is around the same as Sylvanas', and she's one of the strongest laners in the game.

Very few characters can poke her out of lane, Lesane's list seems comprehensive to me.

[Simulacrum]

Well yes, but like I said..."when teamfights are mattering".

Wiping the entire opposing team at level 3 will have basically no impact on the game whatsoever.

It's demoralizing, gives you an exp advantage, and gives you the first objective. Then you probably hit 10 before them, around the time of the second/third objective, giving you that one for free.

You can snowball hard from an early game advantage on some maps.

[Mormolyce]

See, this is what bothers me about all the talk about Sylvanas. People saying she's OP seem to be playing a very different game than I am. I never, ever, ever get time to just sit there and "shield minions from cannon fire". I never see anyone in competitive play managing it, either.

What do you think happens any time your abilities touch the enemy wave/towers?

[Lesane]

Note the part where I said "time".

Seriously, where are these teams that just let you stand there hitting their towers solo all that time? Besides that, in all the imaginary scenarios where Sylvanas is just so OP and ruining your base, you could replace her with any other hero and they'd do the same because it all relies on you just ignoring her in a lane all alone for some reason.

There's a huge difference between leaving a Sylvanas alone in lane and any other hero. She kills minion waves in 2 seconds past level 7 and locks down any building. Even leaving a Zagara alone it will take her a lot longer than it would Sylvanas to demolish a lane. With other heroes you tend to need to push and slowly drain the ammo on buildings, but with Sylvanas that's completely irrelevant and you can take down buildings with just one wave of minions if you are left alone. Also, it's the power of Sylvanas when she's pushing with her team that makes the trait so good.

[Lesane]

It still takes quite a bit of time. She doesn't just make towers vanish or something. And once you're past a certain point in the game it no longer matters anyway. Damn near everyone slaughters minions in seconds, no one is dying to towers and they just melt in seconds to any push.

That's actually the story of a lot of her kit. It'd be stronger if the laning phase lasted longer, or if towers scaled better, or any number of other things. But as it is it's fairly meh early game, shines in mid-game, and goes back to being pretty irrelevant in late-game. That is, except for her teamfight strength, which remains relevant all throughout the match.

It's mostly the value she gets from pushing with objective based shit or mercenaries, because she locks down turrets she greatly increases the lifespan of those which makes it more threatening each time you cap them.

[Lesane]

Right, which is basically the Haunted Mines situation. She can possibly extend the life of your golem by a fair amount depending on the situation.

That's very likely the most powerful use you're going to see out of that trait, and even then it's likely not making or breaking most games.

Hell, if anything the most value I've seen from her trait is on the defensive side. You can nullify basically any size minion/merc push singlehandedly in seconds. (Granted, after a certain level other heroes can do this as well, but she's exceptional at it.) That alone has more value in my mind than this whole "shuts a tower off" nonsense that everyone seems to be all up in arms about.

It's not just Haunted Mines. It's basically every map, it's just even more noticable on Haunted Mines and Tomb. If you can manage to take a boss or a DK/Terror, her trait is going to add tons of value to it.

[Deleted]

It's not just Haunted Mines. It's basically every map, it's just even more noticable on Haunted Mines and Tomb. If you can manage to take a boss or a DK/Terror, her trait is going to add tons of value to it.

When defending a large boss mob on your base, who the hell lets the sylvanas get close to the fort and allow her to keep it stunned? The range she needs to stun a fort is relatively close, and very much alike where the proposed golem would stand.

Massive L2P issues or meaningless moaning about a completely balanced hero in this thread.

[Lesane]

When defending a large boss mob on your base, who the hell lets the sylvanas get close to the fort and allow her to keep it stunned? The range she needs to stun a fort is relatively close, and very much alike where the proposed golem would stand.

Massive L2P issues or meaningless moaning about a completely balanced hero in this thread.

You're acting as if she's going to lock down the fort by herself while the rest of her team is chilling elsewhere. Do you know how people time the capping of Siege Giants on Mines so it helps DPS down the golem and actually makes quite a bit of difference? Well, guess what the fort does by itself, and Sylvanas is the only hero that can make it ineffective. Even if she can only keep it locked down 50% of the time, that's still going to be huge. On Haunted Mines you can never ever base race a Sylvanas team unless you have a 80+ skull golem and the enemy team doesn't. You always have to match the lane she's going to be in with your 4, and so on. I'm not complaining about Sylvanas being OP, but the trait is super underestimated. She is balanced although completely balanced would be an overstatement. She is one of the best heroes in the game atm.

[Lesane]

Well, I just feel that a lot of the complaints made about her trait apply to games other than the one she's in.



She is, just not for any of the reasons that people complain about.

It's amazing to me - for example - that people will whip up a storm of complaints over killing some minions or making a tower not fire (which might be the most useless damn thing in 95% of the course of any given match, honestly.) but not say a word about Wailing Arrow.

Wailing Arrow is a great heroic but there are many heroics that are comparable to it or better than it. There's nothing even close to her trait.

[Lesane]

Nothing even close in terms of being nigh useless in teamfights, where games are actually decided, yes.

Team fights can be a lot more decisive if the subsequent push is a lot stronger thanks to Sylvanas.