Please help for i am a druid and my Tanks may need help but i dont know

[crayman44]

Hey guys please help my raid is going thru herioc BRF and we are 4/10 for our first week. i have come to this thrread to see if there as any advice you guys could give to my tanks to make them better.

Tanks are Employee and Cerrick

Thank you guys for your feedback

(LOGS to be in a following post due to new account)

[Tankitbetter]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...C#type=summary

Logs

Update 4/23 - look at these logs instead please: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QLqnGTDZJP2CHX7d

[Valech]

Looking at your Ka graz kill. Ill just scan for the most common problems.
Let´s start with Employee.
Heroic strikes used: 24. Ultimatum proccs: 15. Since he has not taken Unyieldung Strikes, he is wasting rage: 270 rage over the whole fight to be precise. Doesn´t sound like a lot but explains why his Shieldblock uptime and Shieldbarrier usage is painfully low. Shieldblock uptime should be between 40% and 50%, his is barely 25%. Also, he NEEDS to throw more Shieldbarriers.
Also, he uses his Cooldowns too rarely. Shieldwall only once, Last Stand only once, Enraged Regen with a cd of 1 minute only twice and not a single fucking use of Demoshout. I am unable to find which lvl 100 talents this fellow has used during the encounter. Tell him, that Gladiator´s resolve is his friend in this fight and that he can macro Dragon´s Roar and Bloodbath together.

Now to Cerrick.
While HIS shieldblock uptime is better (not GOOD just BETTER), his talent choice is not. Tell your tanks two things about heroic strike: 1) Never pick unyielding strikes and 2) never use heroic strike at all unless it starts shining. never.
Bloodbath only used 3 times. Dragon´s roar only five times. Here again: Macro them together, use them together and use them on cooldown. His cooldownusage looks slightly better but either I fail to see it or he also did not use a single Demoshout.

Now stuff regarding both: The one good thing shining through is, that both tanks used two potions in most fights. It is discussable if an armor potion is a good choice for the tank who starts with aknor, but it is surely not a bad choice either. The one bad thing shining through is, that both tanks take way too many stacks from Rising Flames after the Firestorm. The mechanic is simple: Taunt at THREE the first time and then everytime the stacks expire. There is no need ti actually let it stack to 6 or 7 or whatever the plan was unless your tanks are too lazy to actually look up to their debuffs (given they have no WA for this) and taunt when they are at 0 seconds remaining. That way they rarely get more then 4 stacks. 12, like in the try, are just too much.
The other bad thing is, that your tanks seem not to know about healthpotions. Make them buy and use some. They SCALE WITH RESOLVE, so a Healthpotion dropped during a stressy situations works like a lay on hands. Does not stack with Armorpots. DOES stack with Healthstones from warlocks, so just forbid your warlocks to drop those damn healthstones, since they heal LESS then potions do.


Conclusion: You tanks should specc HEAVY REPURCUSSION and GLADIATOR´S RESOLVE in the brackets in question. They need both to work on their active mitigation part and favor Shieldblock/Shieldbarrier over other stuff to do. Employee need to increase his usage of bigger cooldowns. Tell them to buy Healthpotions.

[Deleted]

Now stuff regarding both: The one good thing shining through is, that both tanks used two potions in most fights. It is discussable if an armor potion is a good choice for the tank who starts with aknor, but it is surely not a bad choice either.

I'm curious about what you mean by this, what would possibly be a better pre-pot option than an armor pot and why?

[Deleted]

I'm curious about what you mean by this, what would possibly be a better pre-pot option than an armor pot and why?

Tanks generally don't have to pre-pot. It puts the pot on cooldown for a minute or 2, and they may need that potion very early into the fight. At least that's how I always took it.

[Valech]

I'm curious about what you mean by this, what would possibly be a better pre-pot option than an armor pot and why?

If you feel the urge to prepot as the guy who not starts tanking, pot strength. If you feel like you will need your armor pot early on, don´t prepot at all.

[Deleted]

If you feel the urge to prepot as the guy who not starts tanking, pot strength. If you feel like you will need your armor pot early on, don´t prepot at all.

But strength pots are only 1000str, while armor pots give you 1500armor (equivalent to just under 1500str for dpsing purposes). I can't think of any current fights where you'd need the bonus armor in the first 26-59seconds of the fight, but I guess that could be a valid concern on some fight one day.

[Teye]

Also, he uses his Cooldowns too rarely. Shieldwall only once, Last Stand only once, Enraged Regen with a cd of 1 minute only twice and not a single fucking use of Demoshout.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...uffs&by=target

Demo Shout shows on logs as a debuff applied, not a buff gained. He used it multiple times.

There's also several other mistakes in your post, but I don't give enough of a fuck to correct you any further.

[Cybrus]

Please tell Cerrick to put Berserker's Rage on his bar.

Shield Wall stacking and Vigilance in the same time frame is a waste of either ability. Unless there's a big magic attack (Mythic Inferno Slice), you should never be doubling two 30+% damage reduction cooldowns. Use one and it's perfectly heal able and use the other one after it expires. Much more heal-able, otherwise you're just asking to get spiked.

And yeah. Shield Block. Shield Block. SHIELD BLOCK. Use it and try to have 80-90% uptime while tanking a boss with it. Usually should be 40-50% overall though. Heavy Repercussions is good if you can't spare a GCD, but I personally prefer Sudden Death in between spamming Devastate as filler. The other one though is pretty much a Gladiator Warrior only talent unless you never need to use Shield Block or Barrier in trivial content to get the fullest out of it.

[Teye]

Let me remind everyone that as the offtank on Ka'graz, you literally do nothing for the first full minute of the fight, and for the minute from the time the dogs die until the Firestorm ends. Not using Shield Block or Barrier during that time is completely correct, and spending excess rage on Heroic Strike is also completely correct.

Being Unyielding Strikes as the offtank is also correct. You have enough spare rage and enough downtime to increase your DPS exponentially over using Heavy Reps, which just leads to using Shield Block when no incoming damage is present.

This is an alt run from last night where I focused on damage output. I was never in any danger at any point in the fight because I knew when and how to correctly focus on DPS and when to correctly focus on AM and defensive CDs. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Unless there's a big magic attack (Mythic Inferno Slice).

Kinda off-topic for this thread, but the magic damage from Inferno Slice isn't the part that kills you.

[Cybrus]

Let me remind everyone that as the offtank on Ka'graz, you literally do nothing for the first full minute of the fight, and for the minute from the time the dogs die until the Firestorm ends. Not using Shield Block or Barrier during that time is completely correct, and spending excess rage on Heroic Strike is also completely correct.

The group in question isn't on cutting edge progression that makes this sort of thing necessary. Tank DPS isn't the priority or necessity here. If they were perfectly managing Unyielding Strikes during their off-boss time and not using heroic strikes during the dog and stacking debuffs phase, I would totally understand and you would be completely in your rights. They're not though. Some of those HSs by Cerrick can be going into shield barrier during the phase after firestorm, or shield barrier on Firebreath.

The cost between survivability and 1-2k extra dps isn't worth it if your group is struggling. Be a stable and efficient tank and hope your group can pump out the DPS. Just because you can do it doesn't mean they should.

Kinda off-topic for this thread, but the magic damage from Inferno Slice isn't the part that kills you.

Uh, no. Second (and third if you don't three tank it) inferno slice does about 300k magic damage on its target with about 5-6 others in the group to a tank. The strike is laughable if you have shield block up. Getting 120 rage every 14ish seconds is pretty tough sometimes though. Such is the life of a warrior tank.

[Deleted]

Uh, no. Second (and third if you don't three tank it) inferno slice does about 300k magic damage on its target with about 5-6 others in the group to a tank. The strike is laughable if you have shield block up. Getting 120 rage every 14ish seconds is pretty tough sometimes though. Such is the life of a warrior tank.

He was referring to how the portion that really hurts is physical (and blockable, as you yourself indicated) damage and not magical. The fire portion does like 100k damage maybe to the tank with that many soakers.

[Cybrus]

He was referring to how the portion that really hurts is physical (and blockable, as you yourself indicated) damage and not magical. The fire portion does like 100k damage maybe to the tank with that many soakers.

Yeah. Sorry if I sounded like an asshole about it. Maybe I should use Oregorger acid torrent, it being a better example more than likely. Three tanking Gruul is pretty cruel though, since you have no resolve-scaling your shield barriers with that tactic.

[Teye]

Yeah. Sorry if I sounded like an asshole about it. Maybe I should use Oregorger acid torrent, it being a better example more than likely. Three tanking Gruul is pretty cruel though, since you have no resolve-scaling your shield barriers with that tactic.

3 tanking is an old strat that no one should still be using. The duration of the debuff was stealth nerfed like a month ago. Two tanking is easier now.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/warcraftlogs/sta...43506636070913

‏@WarcraftLogs
Stats for tanks are hard because so many of them play badly, prioritizing DPS above living.

Employee I don't think is fixable. He's full wheelchair tanking that boss, not even a tank. Other guy probably can get better.

[Tankitbetter]

In employee's defense, Cerrick doesn't let him tank anything. Cerrick is an old-school style of "main tank" which means he tanks anything and everything he can and then employee can get what's left.

[Cybrus]

Cerrick is an old-school style of "main tank" which means he tanks anything and everything he can and then employee can get what's left.

That's great and all, but times change.

[Tankitbetter]

That's great and all, but times change.

Agreed, and hopefully it'll be changing soon. I just wanted to let you know.

[Deleted]

Well if his ego gets in the way of reality to the point where he'll hold back progress in order to tank more. Not sure any advice here about gameplay will get through. And yes going 80/20 against a 50/50 design increases your chances of wiping & is him placing his power trip above the raid group

[Tankitbetter]

Tonight went better and worse. We had several tank fuckups that wiped the raid but overall Employee was 100% easier to heal. Cerrick had spots too. I took some of the advice here and it seems like they somewhat put it to use.

Here is our 8/10 normal farm night + Heroic Darmac/Gruul.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QLqnGTDZJP2CHX7d

Input is very much appreciated.