Does elemental basically ignore trinket/ring procs?

[Dangers]

Since all the trinkets available from BRF are PPM based and can't be reliably predicted, do I basically just ignore them and go about my business?

I am coming from rogue where I had an on use and a proc so I would generally only backstab during the procs and put the on use on my cooldowns, neither of which seem to apply to elemental right now.

With the removal of snapshotting for dots, is there any reason to track them in an almost entirely proc based rotation? IE Save cooldowns/lava surge/fulminate hoping for a proc which generally sounds like a bad idea.

[Niken]

Save Cool downs for them but only if it wont reduce the number of CDs (EM/Asc) you get in that encounter. e.g. in gruul since i save my 3rd EM for my 2nd Asc + 2nd Pot, I want to stack them with the best procs i can so i can wait a while, but i make sure they wont have over time.

I also try to fit as many casts in them, so my BMC or Ring procs I will carry on casting LvB or LB and not earthshock until around 3 seconds remaining so I can slip in Flumantion and a lava burst. I also don't use UF midway through these procs, to get in more casts(idk if not using UF is good, I suppose it depends if you are casts LvB or LB). With the Haste one I just carry on as normal, but try to make sure i start a cast before it fades to get the benefit after the buff has faded.

Mostly don't delay anything for a proc if it causes you to lose casts later, since Procs are random(kind of random)

I hope this isn't bad advice, seems to be doing good for me.

[Deleted]

No, please read a guide and sign on a forum where people have an idea:

http://forums.summonstone.com/forum/13-shaman/

[Dangers]

Thanks for the non helpful answer Epsi, I'll just try to work it out myself over time instead so I really understand the mechanics. If I didn't read any guides, I wouldn't be asking such a specific question that is one of the last things to work out to maximize damage. That said, thanks for the real write up Niken. I appreciate it.

I also try to fit as many casts in them, so my BMC or Ring procs I will carry on casting LvB or LB and not earthshock until around 3 seconds remaining so I can slip in Flumantion and a lava burst.

For this part, are you Earth Shocking before the procs expire at any amount of Lightning Shield stacks? I am assuming that if you keep casting instead of hitting Earth Shock during a proc you would cap Lightning Shield stacks so it wouldn't matter when you hit the Earth Shock during the proc. Should I be letting it cap during procs just to save it for the end of the proc?

[Canibehealz]

Generally speaking Elemental doesn't change its priority for trinket procs though, as they don't make an impact on any abilities in the priority rotation. DPS as normal unless you only get one more use of your cooldowns, sure, save them for trinket procs if you want as long as youre not losing a use of them.

[Markooo]

Does elemental basically ignore trinket/ring procs?

Yes.

Here's the issue.

On Gruul, one of the very few fights we take UF anymore, you have at least 3 GCDs simply to prep for your second Asc. You've got to FS before Ascendance, you've got to pop your second ET (if you're using SET if your fight is under 5 min), and you have to hit UF. Add in EM and pot, and you're trying to pay attention to a lot of things at once. By the time you notice your procs (at least a GCD), you spend 3 GCD (at worst) or 1 GCD (at best, ET - implies you just put on FS and UF is on CD (not good)) "prepping" for your second set of CDs, and now you only have 4-6 seconds with your proc.

Then, you have to consider what you might have just wasted as well. Say you just dropped a ST, you just cast an ES, or FS is between 10 - 20 seconds. What this means is that 1) you wasted a GCD on ST, 2) you're going to have to wait to cast FS, possibly cutting its duration, or 3) wasting a GCD on a second FS too soon.

These are all small things, yes. But that's what we're talking about here. All of these problems are out of your control as well. You just can't set yourself up properly to take advantage of these procs without sacrificing DPS everywhere else.

Bottom line, when the time comes for that second set of CDs, these are the things you want to happen: Drop your FET on time @4min or @3min (since you used SET + ST with lust at the start), check FS (over 20, good to go, under 15, wait out to reapply), empty your charges of LvB, UF, pop CDs / pot, LvB spam, 20 stack ES.

Thanks for the non helpful answer Epsi, I'll just try to work it out myself over time instead so I really understand the mechanics. If I didn't read any guides, I wouldn't be asking such a specific question that is one of the last things to work out to maximize damage. That said, thanks for the real write up Niken. I appreciate it.

The reason you don't see this info in any guides is that it's not worth it. And by 'any' guides, I mean Bink's guide, which is the only one that exists for Ele right now. Also, Epsi is trying to make a point to check out other forums that have better sources of information, as most of the things you read in this forum are wrong.

For this part, are you Earth Shocking before the procs expire at any amount of Lightning Shield stacks? I am assuming that if you keep casting instead of hitting Earth Shock during a proc you would cap Lightning Shield stacks so it wouldn't matter when you hit the Earth Shock during the proc. Should I be letting it cap during procs just to save it for the end of the proc?

When you've got Ascendance up, you ES at 20 only. Yeah, you're going to waste a stack or two, but otherwise it's not worth interrupting your LvB spam. Don't let it cap at any other time, ever. Use it as close to 12 as possible to feed the LvB machine gun.

With Echo and 4piece, you're machine-gunning LvB all day, so you're going to get a few of those during procs anyway. In reality, you could actually lose LvB casts during a proc if you instead fill it with 3 other GCDs.

[Dangers]

Thanks for the information Markooo. I understand most of the intricacies you explain, especially the clarifications about when to use ES during procs, I was more trying to figure out the reasoning behind Niken's strategy. I think I pretty much have it all down based on what I've read/seen (which includes many sites, references and personal experience).

While this next part is covered here and there with spotty information the only thing left to fully clarify is that once I get my 4pc (getting carried to gear for my main swap) then Earth Shock is always cast at >12 purely for the Lava Surge except during Ascendance where you only do it at 20 (nothing changes there).
The main thing is, the Lava Surge from Fulmination is the only thing I can't personally test until I get the tier for it so naturally it must outweigh the damage of Earth Shock/Fulmination to the point where the initial use of Fulmination pre-tier basically becomes non existent and it merely becomes a way to manually proc Lava Surge. That basically sums it up I hope. Trying to talk it all through so I understand all the base mechanics rather than just trying to replicate what others say (a trap far too many DPS fall in to).

I generally prefer to do all the testing and theorycrafting myself but that's not too viable right now since I am trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can while lacking gear and experience (I've generally been Resto).

[Markooo]

While this next part is covered here and there with spotty information the only thing left to fully clarify is that once I get my 4pc (getting carried to gear for my main swap) then Earth Shock is always cast at >12 purely for the Lava Surge except during Ascendance where you only do it at 20 (nothing changes there).
The main thing is, the Lava Surge from Fulmination is the only thing I can't personally test until I get the tier for it so naturally it must outweigh the damage of Earth Shock/Fulmination to the point where the initial use of Fulmination pre-tier basically becomes non existent and it merely becomes a way to manually proc Lava Surge. That basically sums it up I hope. Trying to talk it all through so I understand all the base mechanics rather than just trying to replicate what others say (a trap far too many DPS fall in to).

To make sure I understand exactly what you're saying, this is what I think you mean to say (tell me if I'm wrong). You're asking if LvB does more damage than ES / Fulmination at 15-17 stacks (the rotation pre-t17 4p). Then, you're saying that ES only matters as a way to proc Lava Surge.

The answer to both of these is yes. When you play with the 4p, ES is simply a means to proc more LvB, and if you play with Echo (which you always want to once you have 4p) your number of LvB casts will skyrocket.

While you could hold ES for another few stacks, you're giving away LvBs over the course of the fight, since your next ES will be worth an extra LvB. Ex: You cast ES at 18 stacks every time. You give away an LvB every two casts of this. 18 * 2 = 36, which is potentially 3 extra LvB (12 stacks) instead of 2.

[Niken]

For this part, are you Earth Shocking before the procs expire at any amount of Lightning Shield stacks? I am assuming that if you keep casting instead of hitting Earth Shock during a proc you would cap Lightning Shield stacks so it wouldn't matter when you hit the Earth Shock during the proc. Should I be letting it cap during procs just to save it for the end of the proc?

No Don't ever use EarthShock without 12 stacks unless it's at the very end of a fight and you can't fit in a full cast e.g. like 250khp

But if you don't use ES through the proc you will definitely have 12 stacks by the end, especially with BMC , the multistrike gains will allow you to even ES in the first second(ish) of the proc to get the lava surge and clear stacks. with the lava surge from that ES you should easily be able to get the 11 (11+base 1 =12)stacks you need for the ES on the 8th Second of the proc(1.5gcd + delays with ms/personal reactions) to fit the LvB and ES/Fulmination with 100% multi. if you get a lucky haste buff it will make it even better as you will get more stacks meaning more dmg on the 100% Fulmination dmg, which is, at a minimum of 12 stacks, 190% dmg(excluding crits), same for LvB.

obviously this only applies to people with 4set , but if you have on proc trinkets you should definitely have 4set.

[Dangers]

Awesome, thanks Niken and Markooo. I really like to know the ins and outs of a spec especially for building appropriate ui/macros myself. You guys cleared up the last few things I needed to understand. Now to work on the physical aspects of the class (mastering keybindings/movement and such). I really appreciate the tips, lets me build my own knowledge base instead of copy and pasting from a guide.

[Deleted]

Don't mind procs too much if you're not an advanced player. The most important thing is to try to fit a last cast when a proc is about to fade (generally earth shock, or earth shock into 4P surge)

[Goblinkong]

I tend to hit my keyboard harder when i have procs up.

[Markooo]

I tend to hit my keyboard harder when i have procs up.

I'm with this guy