California Bill Would Ban Vaccination Opt Out Based on Personal Belief

[Sole-Warrior]

Some potentially good news.

The bill, SB 277, proposed by Richard Pan, a pediatrician and state senator would bar children who are vaccinated for non medical reasons from attending public or private schools. Currently, the personal belief exemption serves as a loophole that allows parents to choose not to vaccinate their children for essentially any reason, including ones founded on misinformation.

Vaccination is not only important for the child, but for the protection of children who have have a medical condition that prevents them from being vaccinated, such as a condition in which a fever can trigger seizures. Herd Immunity must be maintained for those individuals.

According to public health experts, at least 92 percent of a population must be vaccinated in order to maintain the “herd immunity” needed to protect those who cannot be inoculated, including very young children and people with compromised immune systems due to illnesses such as leukemia. But over the past 12 years the percentage of families using the personal belief exemption in California has increased greatly, resulting in the loss of herd immunity in more than a quarter of schools in the state as of 2014.

What are the arguments against this bill, and how have you addressed them?

The opposition’s arguments fall into three main categories: One is that they claim vaccines are dangerous and unfortunately bring up a lot of debunked ideas, such as that vaccines cause autism. Research shows that’s not true, that vaccines are very safe, and certainly much safer than the diseases that they prevent.

The second part of the argument is that these diseases aren't that serious. Of course, they haven’t had direct experience with these diseases. They haven’t seen children in the ICU [intensive care unit] with measles encephalitis or seen babies cough to death.

The third argument is that the bill imposes on personal choice. Generally, of course, we want to give people as much freedom as possible. The question is, should you have the right to do something that will harm others? The Supreme Court has said that you cannot. Children who have exemptions due to chronic illness need the protection of all the other [vaccinated] children. Do those families choose not to send their children to school in order to keep them safe? That’s not fair to those families because they didn't have a choice. They didn't choose for their child to have leukemia, for example

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...id=SA_Facebook



The bill is not law yet, but it did pass the Senate Education Committee by 7-2. It will next head to the Senate Judiciary Committee.


Lots of posts about autism... Vaccines do not cause autism.

One vaccine ingredient that has been studied specifically is thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative used to prevent contamination of multidose vials of vaccines. Research shows that thimerosal does not cause ASD. In fact, a 2004 scientific reviewExternal Web Site Icon by the IOM concluded that "the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal–containing vaccines and autism." Since 2003, there have been nine CDC-funded or conducted studies Adobe PDF file [PDF - 316 KB] that have found no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, as well as no link between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and ASD in children.

Between 1999 and 2001, thimerosal was removed or reduced to trace amounts in all childhood vaccines except for some flu vaccines. This was done as part of a broader national effort to reduce all types of mercury exposure in children before studies were conducted that determined that thimerosal was not harmful. It was done as a precaution. Currently, the only childhood vaccines that contain thimerosal are flu vaccines packaged in multidose vials. Thimerosal-free alternatives are also available for flu vaccine. For more information, see the Timeline for Thimerosal in Vaccines.

Besides thimerosal, some people have had concerns about other vaccine ingredients in relation to ASD as well. However, no links have been found between any vaccine ingredients and ASD.

Source CDC

[MerinPally]

Same opinion with the proposed Australian one of preventing you getting child benefit if you didn't vaccinate your kids - good.

[Tradewind]

You know if it's a religious thing...I'm not a huuuuuuge fan of forcing it on them, since I think that makes me a hypocrite. Though if they choose that path, they shouldn't be allowed to send them to public school. But for the ignorant jackasses who believe people like Jenny McCarthy...yeah, good. They should know better.

[Cerus]

While not debating the pros and cons of vaccines I'll have to go with bad. Forcing a parent to vaccinate is no different than forcing someone to carry a child to term.

YOU and only you should decide what goes in your body or your child's. While the study of vaccines causing autism was "disproven" and I say that lightly since vaccines are big money and it would surprise me if the debunking was falsified - money makes people do terrible things. There are studies showing a link between too many vaccines at once causing genetically predisposed children to become autistic. Several lawsuits were won as a result.

Anywho - the focus should be on educating parents and offering alternative vaccine schedules that limit the number of vaccines given at one time and eliminate unnecessary ones like HepB for newborns and chickenpox. The idea that the CP vaccine prevents shingles later in life has no evidence to back it up. The first children given the CP vaccine are nowhere near old enough yet to be at risk of shingles. More study and time is needed but natural immunity is better in that case and it was always considered a harmless illness until the the media scare tactics took hold. Suddenly overnight it became super deadly.

I'm all for vaccines but forcing it I'm not and spreading them out is best. And giving a newborn HepB is just insane. How many one day olds are shooting up drugs?

[Sargerasraider]

It's nice to occasionally be able to wholeheartedly support California.

While not debating the pros and cons of vaccines I'll have to go with bad. Forcing a parent to vaccinate is no different than forcing someone to carry a child to term.

No, very different. You are putting others at risk by doing this.

YOU and only you should decide what goes in your body or your child's. While the study of vaccines causing autism was "disproven" and I say that lightly since vaccines are big money and it would surprise me if the debunking was falsified - money makes people do terrible things. There are studies showing a link between too many vaccines at once causing genetically predisposed children to become autistic. Several lawsuits were won as a result.

Anywho - the focus should be on educating parents and offering alternative vaccine schedules that limit the number of vaccines given at one time and eliminate unnecessary ones like HepB for newborns and chickenpox. The idea that the CP vaccine prevents shingles later in life has no evidence to back it up. The first children given the CP vaccine are nowhere near old enough yet to be at risk of shingles. More study and time is needed but natural immunity is better in that case and it was always considered a harmless illness until the the media scare tactics took hold. Suddenly overnight it became super deadly.

I'm all for vaccines but forcing it I'm not and spreading them out is best. And giving a newborn HepB is just insane. How many one day olds are shooting up drugs?

I don't even know how to respond to false information like this.

[Cerus]

It does not force. It says you cannot have the kid in public school. You are free to not vaccinate. But you then have to either homeschool, or go to a private school that allows that.

That's basically forcing it.

[SoulForge]

While not debating the pros and cons of vaccines I'll have to go with bad. Forcing a parent to vaccinate is no different than forcing someone to carry a child to term.

YOU and only you should decide what goes in your body or your child's. While the study of vaccines causing autism was "disproven" and I say that lightly since vaccines are big money and it would surprise me if the debunking was falsified - money makes people do terrible things. There are studies showing a link between too many vaccines at once causing genetically predisposed children to become autistic. Several lawsuits were won as a result.

Anywho - the focus should be on educating parents and offering alternative vaccine schedules that limit the number of vaccines given at one time and eliminate unnecessary ones like HepB for newborns and chickenpox. The idea that the CP vaccine prevents shingles later in life has no evidence to back it up. The first children given the CP vaccine are nowhere near old enough yet to be at risk of shingles. More study and time is needed but natural immunity is better in that case and it was always considered a harmless illness until the the media scare tactics took hold. Suddenly overnight it became super deadly.

I'm all for vaccines but forcing it I'm not and spreading them out is best. And giving a newborn HepB is just insane. How many one day olds are shooting up drugs?

I'd agree if only they can't do things like go to public schools. They put others at risk doing this.

[MerinPally]

While the study of vaccines causing autism was "disproven" and I say that lightly since vaccines are big money and it would surprise me if the debunking was falsified - money makes people do terrible things. There are studies showing a link between too many vaccines at once causing genetically predisposed children to become autistic. Several lawsuits were won as a result.

Jesus christ what a paragraph of utter bullshit.

I'm all for vaccines but forcing it I'm not and spreading them out is best. And giving a newborn HepB is just insane. How many one day olds are shooting up drugs?

None, even if this law passes. Half the idea of this law is so that the 1 day olds or young kids when they first get taken outside, aren't going to be exposed to HepB because everyone is vaccinated...

[breadisfunny]

while they are at it they should mandate that these people arguing against the bill be sterilized.

[Sunseeker]

That's basically forcing it.

Tough shit. You don't get benefits if you can't follow the rules.

You're forced to go to prison when you break the law. You're forced to buy car insurance if you own a vehicle. If you don't want to do these things, you're welcome to attempt to change the law, but you're not welcome to break it.

[Puck]

That's basically forcing it.

Sometimes force is necessary for the well being of the many...

[Daerio]

I think that's fine, as long as the state then assumes financial liability for any "unintended" consequences.

Which obviously they'll try to deny.

[GodlyBob]

YOU and only you should decide what goes in your body or your child's. While the study of vaccines causing autism was "disproven" and I say that lightly since vaccines are big money and it would surprise me if the debunking was falsified - money makes people do terrible things. There are studies showing a link between too many vaccines at once causing genetically predisposed children to become autistic. Several lawsuits were won as a result.

Hypothetically, isn't a very tiny chance of a child becoming autistic better than a slightly higher chance of a child dying from the disease the vaccine prevented? I'm just saying, pretty much any good parent would rather have a kid that has a harder time talking to other children than a dead one.

Of course, this is going off the utterly ridiculous notion that vaccines cause autism in the first place.

[twiddler]

Sometimes force is necessary for the well being of the many...

This. I'm sure most of you educated folk have experienced flu season wiping out a large population of your lecture mates.

[Nathreim]

Its unconstitutional.

You should get vaccinated but no one should be able to compel you to do so.

The only people who are really in danger are the idiots that don't get vaccinated. We have too many idiots running around as it is let nature take its course.

Sometimes force is necessary for the well being of the many...

Thats fascism.

[Sole-Warrior]

Its unconstitutional.

You should get vaccinated but no one should be able to compel you to do so.

The only people who are really in danger are the idiots that don't get vaccinated. We have too many idiots running around as it is let nature take its course.



Thats fascism.

No one is getting forced, unless your child has a medical condition that makes it unsafe to vaccinate, will simply be disallowed to attend public and private school. You are not getting a a hefty fine nor prison time. It's needed for the protection of children who have conditions that can't be vaccinated.

[Grummgug]

That's basically forcing it.

Not at all. There are an increasing number of parents choosing the home-school. Its cheaper and children get can often get a better education.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Tie em down, and "GET R DONE!"

I am all for it.

[Detritivores]

YOU and only you should decide what goes in your body or your child's. While the study of vaccines causing autism was "disproven" and I say that lightly since vaccines are big money and it would surprise me if the debunking was falsified - money makes people do terrible things. There are studies showing a link between too many vaccines at once causing genetically predisposed children to become autistic. Several lawsuits were won as a result.

To be clear, Wakefield's study wasn't just "disproven." It was both shown to be a bogus study and he lost his license to practice as a result of unethical methodology involved in that study. Could you link any of these studies you claim show "too many vaccines at once" is a problem? I would absolutely love to read them.

[MerinPally]

The only people who are really in danger are the idiots that don't get vaccinated.

Completely incorrect.