Actually, as a pediatrician, the actual "increase" in autism spectrum disorder diagnoses is very controversial. There is plenty of data that states that diagnoses of ASDs are increasing, as other diagnoses (e.g. MR, so called learning disabilities) are decreasing. As an example, plenty of former micro-preemies carry a diagnosis of autism, rather than some learning disability, even though the neurological insult (extreme prematurity) is known. I have several colleagues who will label a kid as autistic, because that is the easiest way to get a child with a learning issue the speech therapy / PT / OT that is really helpful.
Here is a good study looking at the public school system, showing that as diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders increased, other similar diagnoses decreased
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or.../1028.abstract
(I don't think Pediatrics is paywalled which is why I picked it... sorry if wrong)
Asking for an astronomically small theoretical risk to be reduced to zero to appease you, rather than avoiding the larger risk of these preventable diseases is a logical fallacy.While they do qualify it with, "so rare we don't really know," it is right there on the CDC website. I guess we should ignore the warnings. Pretend they don't exist, that's really for the best.
There is -zero- evidence that the current vaccine schedule is harmful. If you want to nitpick, previous versions of the vaccines in the 60's / 70's had a far larger antigen burden.The most convincing argument to me is not to remain unvaccinated, but to adjust the vaccination schedule. It's incredibly concentrated for children in our country right now at an extremely young age, with the only justification I've seen for such a concentrated schedule being that "people don't see the doctor often enough, so we need to make sure they get them all at once."
Last edited by Sargerasraider; 2015-04-26 at 11:32 PM.
People stupid enough to put their own kids at risk to diseases because of their ignorance or religious ideologies don't deserve to be in public places. I hope this bill goes through, though the US government as a whole needs to outright deny social services to people who refuse mandatory vaccines for themselves or their kids.
I'm ignoring the part where you went off on an irrelevant tangent, yes.
And how much money is there in treating influenza, vs providing new vaccines for it every year?
Or other diseases for which there is no treatment once contracted?
And in order for many of those diseases to actually be more profitable to treat than prevent, there would have to be a massive outbreak. Is that really more profitable than selling a vaccine to every human being, in some cases every year?
The answer is no. I did not claim conspiracy, "you guys" attempted to "head it off" by saying it's more profitable to treat than prevent, and you're still wrong.
If you're still trying to argue the increase from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 88 is purely academic, that's still ridiculous. You're tiptoeing around saying there actually hasn't been an increase in autism, without saying it, because it's wrong.
Last edited by Daerio; 2015-04-26 at 11:30 PM.
As I said, it's controversial. The CDC data relies on reports of special needs, and as I stated, most children requiring special needs are now labelled as autistic (often whether or not they meet the official diagnostic criteria).
Here are some other papers for your interest:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ne&aid=9495906
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16919130
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22253308
Last one notes that lots of the increase was in people with higher function.
Regardless, it's irrelevant, as vaccines don't cause autism.
Last edited by Sargerasraider; 2015-04-26 at 11:54 PM.
You know what would be a great first step in starting a massive outbreak? Stopping all vaccinations.
As I've stated before...less than 2% of Big Pharma's profits ever year comes from Vaccines. I'm not claiming they don't make a profit from them...but if they stopped selling vaccines tomorrow...they'd barely notice the dip in revenue. Instead they'd just be selling more Cold and Flu Medicine and Painkillers. Vaccinate or not...Big Pharma is going to make a shit ton of money either way.
But, I can keep on repeating that fact and you will keep on ignoring it...because it doesn't line up with your beliefs. You can scream "Vaccines BAD!" as loud as you want...but you have yet to provide even the slightest bit of scientifically verifiable evidence to support your position.
“The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.
Yes, when you attempt to frame the numbers that way, it appears small, but the 3.1 billion dollars they made in 2013 (on flu shots alone) certainly doesn't seem as insignificant to me as it apparently does to you. Your statistical manipulation is amusing, but 3+ billion dollars a year is relevant.
Last edited by Daerio; 2015-04-27 at 12:37 AM.
The vaccine industry has grown from 5 to 30 billion dollars a year in the last ten years. I would NEVER take anything at face value when so much money is at stake. The corporate media wouldn't tell you bad news about vaccines would it? The fact is vaccines don't work and vaccines are not safe. All you pro-vaccers are gullible useful idiots for big pharma.
knock yourself out
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/kre...7_15.02.01.pdf
fact is charities and academia and non profits fund most of the research into vaccination.
“The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.
Oh boy maybe we'll get to see a bunch of 20somethings crippled by chickenpox a few years from now.
I find the fact that you don't actually have a point and that you're arguing in circles for some reason to be fairly relevant. I'd love to hear what your idea is, or what you think should be done about the vaccine issue. Anything that suggests you aren't just being contrarian because it's fun.
To your second point, autism was also recently redefined to include kids that may have previously been labeled as ADD or as Asperger's (sp?). There has been a major shift in the way the disorder is being diagnosed that is leading to more and more kids with the label thanks to the new and expanded definition of what the disorder is.
When I worked home health care/hospice, we had to get tested for TB annually.
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Somehwere between the number of Benghazi reports we need to have before one says "She wuz bad", and the number of times we need to vote to repeal Obamacare before it happens.