Dr. Boom

[Solmyr13]

There's a difference between "strong" and "overpowered" and boom is definitely overpowered.

He's ran in almost literally every deck archetype for that very reason. He's stronger than most 9 drops at 7 mana. The only card people play that doesn't go less than 1:1 for him is... himself. In fact, it's hard to imagine any card that could 1:1 him, besides himself. Even twisting nether still makes you take 2-8 damage. Maybe onyxia on an empty board... or mind control, and even there the remaining boom bots alone have a chance of killing the MC'd dr.

So what you're saying is he's op because:

He's run in every deck
You have an opinion that he's stronger than most 9 drops.
Nothing can 1v1 him

I'd say, based on what you're opinion is then that Onyxia is actually better than Dr Boom. What can 1v1 Onyxia? Dr Boom can't even trade with her 1v1 and then she has 6 other 1/1's. An 8/8 + 6 1/1's for 8 mana compared to a 7 drop card that's a 7/7 and gets two 1/1's that can deal 1-4 damage?

[Raugnaut]

I think that leaving him as a 7/7, but causing him to spawn a 0/1 boom bot at the end of every turn would not only be better, but suit him more. Dr. Boom in Outlands basically constantly spawned bombs, had a metric ton of health, and did nothing else, with the bombs running around and exploding randomly.

[Solmyr13]

I think that leaving him as a 7/7, but causing him to spawn a 0/1 boom bot at the end of every turn would not only be better, but suit him more. Dr. Boom in Outlands basically constantly spawned bombs, had a metric ton of health, and did nothing else, with the bombs running around and exploding randomly.

This is a halfway decent idea but they should still be 1/1's otherwise they just become a detriment to you.

The reason Dr. Boom isn't this ridiculous OP card is he's only good if you're ahead and it helps solidify the lead or if you are playing that balancing act. If you're behind he's not a very good drop because the bots are RNG reliant. I've had it before where the person had a board of 1/2 hp minions (think zoo rush) and i would attack 1 minion with a bomb and it exploded into the hero for 2 damage and the second one exploded on the hero for 1 damage. It was completely worthless. People will always remember the times a card screwed them over and never a time it was just "meh". If it's a clear board and they play Dr. Boom on their turn 7 and you play BGH on yours and then play a 4 cost card, they now have to pray to RNJesus to clear your board.

[Eroginous]

A lot of you don't seem to realize that power level of a card is determined by rarity and cost. If a card is legendary with a high mana cost, it's going to have a much stronger effect on the game than a basic card with a lower cost. That's the point of having card rarity to begin with. As I said before, Dr Boom isn't even that good. It's played because it offers +2 card advantage but otherwise offers no unique or game changing effect. It's a standard 7/7 for 7 body that spawns two 1/1s that can do up to 4 damage each to a randomly chosen enemy when they die. Best case scenario, the player kills all 3 in one turn and takes 8 face damage. That's not really spectacular in any sense of the word. Ragnaros is better at doing that, and he's not even that good.

Worst case scenario, your Dr. Boom dies the turn after it's played and his bots damage a couple of weak minions to no real effect.

This is why Hearsthone needs much deeper game play than MINIONS MINIONS MINIONS MINIONS FACE DAMAGE MINIONS I WN.

[Mormolyce]

Considering the huge tempo loss it is, absolutely.


Aye, but it's not limited to just one, and undertaker was never, ever a "bait."

A hunter could still completely wreck you, even if you removed the undertaker, but that's just because the class is simply broken. In any other deck undertaker was the whole focus of the deck, and removing it removed the primary win condition.

The fact that a deck that used a 1 mana card as a win condition for the entire deck EVER worked at all is all the evidence you should need that the card was fucking broken and deserved its nerf. In reality early undertakers were IMMEDIATELY removed no matter what cards it cost you. They would then use the rest of their deck to beat you safe in the knowledge that you'd had to blow your removal early to get rid of a 1-mana card. Ridiculous trade.

Sure but it was a lot more susceptible to counters in zoo than it was in hunter. Strong yes but a lot more manageable, and it only became more manageable as you spread out to look at other undertaker decks, which is my point; hunters were the real problem and nerfing the undertaker was just the quick, dirty solution.

I've been playing zoo since beta, I guarantee you undertakers were a problem in zoo too.

I was thinking exactly the same and never really got people that don't play any 7+ atk minions because of BGH. Some people even count for the new BRM shaman minion to not roll 7 attack cue of BGH. I would very much like an opponent to waste his BGH on my shitty 4-drop

You either run none (rush deck) or lots (control deck) :P

I mean, go right ahead and BGH a control warrior or handlock. They'll say "thanks for the BGH" and play their next 7+ card.

- - - Updated - - -

A lot of you don't seem to realize that power level of a card is determined by rarity and cost. If a card is legendary with a high mana cost, it's going to have a much stronger effect on the game than a basic card with a lower cost. That's the point of having card rarity to begin with. As I said before, Dr Boom isn't even that good. It's played because it offers +2 card advantage but otherwise offers no unique or game changing effect. It's a standard 7/7 for 7 body that spawns two 1/1s that can do up to 4 damage each to a randomly chosen enemy when they die. Best case scenario, the player kills all 3 in one turn and takes 8 face damage. That's not really spectacular in any sense of the word. Ragnaros is better at doing that, and he's not even that good.

Worst case scenario, your Dr. Boom dies the turn after it's played and his bots damage a couple of weak minions to no real effect.

This is why Hearsthone needs much deeper game play than MINIONS MINIONS MINIONS MINIONS FACE DAMAGE MINIONS I WN.

I disagree, Dr. Boom is almost always a tempo swing. Your opponent is forced to deal with a 7 attack minion and 3 bodies simultaneously, and even if they can, the bombs often wreak havoc on your board. Never mind the fact that lots of bodies on the board synergise with so many things - knife juggler, sunfury protector/defender of argus, sea giant...

Even if your opponent CAN deal with Dr. Boom, they typically spend most or all of that turn doing so, which swings tempo in your favour.

[Eroginous]

I disagree, Dr. Boom is almost always a tempo swing. Your opponent is forced to deal with a 7 attack minion and 3 bodies simultaneously, and even if they can, the bombs often wreak havoc on your board. Never mind the fact that lots of bodies on the board synergise with so many things - knife juggler, sunfury protector/defender of argus, sea giant...

Even if your opponent CAN deal with Dr. Boom, they typically spend most or all of that turn doing so, which swings tempo in your favour.

A generic 7/7 isn't hard to deal with, neither are two 1/1s. Their random damage doesn't hurt nearly as bad as people say, even if it hits for 4 each, it's not enough to kill anything substantial unless it hits the same minion or ends up being the final bit of damage. As I said before, Ragnaros is better at doing large amounts of damage and he's got a bigger body (harder to deal with than Dr. Boom), while at the same time being really easy to deal with.

I think you're making minion presence out to be far better than it actually is in this game. Every class has easy ways of dealing with minions, especially generic 7/7s. I also think you're putting too much value into the damage the bots do. Literally everything in this game does damage. There are much better ways to deal 1-4 damage at less cost and earlier in the game. There are much better late game cards that will impact your opponent's board and his chances of winning.

[Mormolyce]

A generic 7/7 isn't hard to deal with, neither are two 1/1s. Their random damage doesn't hurt nearly as bad as people say, even if it hits for 4 each, it's not enough to kill anything substantial unless it hits the same minion or ends up being the final bit of damage. As I said before, Ragnaros is better at doing large amounts of damage and he's got a bigger body (harder to deal with than Dr. Boom), while at the same time being really easy to deal with.

I think you're making minion presence out to be far better than it actually is in this game. Every class has easy ways of dealing with minions, especially generic 7/7s. I also think you're putting too much value into the damage the bots do. Literally everything in this game does damage. There are much better ways to deal 1-4 damage at less cost and earlier in the game. There are much better late game cards that will impact your opponent's board and his chances of winning.

INDIVIDUALLY no, they are not that hard to deal with, but one card plays ALL THREE. So you need hard removal AND AoE in one round to deal with ONE CARD. And while you're doing this, you're expending mana to deal with this one threat, failing to develop your own board, and sacrificing your AoE and removal. Leaving your opponent free to flood the board or play more high attack minions.

Dr Boom isn't some kind of magical one turn win, but it is a VERY strong play that will either swing tempo or secure a board position. Worst case scenario, your opponent has all the cards necessary to deal with it in that turn, in which case it's essentially a draw. If you have to use minions to clear him he almost always trades well.

He is pretty much the best thing you can do with 7 mana, regardless of deck, and that's why he's OP.

[Sarevokcz]

INDIVIDUALLY no, they are not that hard to deal with, but one card plays ALL THREE. So you need hard removal AND AoE in one round to deal with ONE CARD. And while you're doing this, you're expending mana to deal with this one threat, failing to develop your own board, and sacrificing your AoE and removal. Leaving your opponent free to flood the board or play more high attack minions.

Dr Boom isn't some kind of magical one turn win, but it is a VERY strong play that will either swing tempo or secure a board position. Worst case scenario, your opponent has all the cards necessary to deal with it in that turn, in which case it's essentially a draw. If you have to use minions to clear him he almost always trades well.

He is pretty much the best thing you can do with 7 mana, regardless of deck, and that's why he's OP.

boom is fine, the game badly needs strong lategame drops, plenty of early drops are grossly overbudget, but you dont see threat about knife juggler every other day, even tho hes most of the time way more impactful than boom. plus the game already has enough cheap, efficient tools to deal with big cards, so if big cards are to be playable, they absolutely NEED either instant, powerful effect or very strong potential to 2 or 3 for 1

[Eroginous]

INDIVIDUALLY no, they are not that hard to deal with, but one card plays ALL THREE. So you need hard removal AND AoE in one round to deal with ONE CARD. And while you're doing this, you're expending mana to deal with this one threat, failing to develop your own board, and sacrificing your AoE and removal. Leaving your opponent free to flood the board or play more high attack minions.

A lot of misguided logic here. Something that isn't often talked about in HS when discussing fundamentals is a thing called card quality. We have such concepts as board development, combat tricks, combat trades, and card advantage. Dr. Boom is a generic 7/7 that spawns two more generic 1/1s. Their only ability is they can deal extra damage on deathrattle. Otherwise they are as bland as a minion gets. Just because a card provides +2 card advantage doesn't automatically make it good. Dark Whispers gives you +4 card advantage by dropping 5 1/1 Whisps. It's still a pretty bad card (not really, the ability to choose effect makes it decent and the +5/+5 and Taunt is at least decent). Cenarius gives you 2x 2/2 taunts (+2 card advantage players can't just ignore while they beat your face). Nourish lets you draw 3 cards (+2 card advantage that helps you draw deeper into your deck). Flamestrike can give you a potential +6 card advantage (as it nukes a board full of minions).

Every time I see dr Boom, I have no problems dealing with him.

[Mormolyce]

boom is fine, the game badly needs strong lategame drops, plenty of early drops are grossly overbudget, but you dont see threat about knife juggler every other day, even tho hes most of the time way more impactful than boom. plus the game already has enough cheap, efficient tools to deal with big cards, so if big cards are to be playable, they absolutely NEED either instant, powerful effect or very strong potential to 2 or 3 for 1

I agree with a lot of this but IMO the solution is to nerf the overbudget low-mana aggro cards, not create more OP cards at the high mana end.

A lot of misguided logic here. Something that isn't often talked about in HS when discussing fundamentals is a thing called card quality. We have such concepts as board development, combat tricks, combat trades, and card advantage. Dr. Boom is a generic 7/7 that spawns two more generic 1/1s. Their only ability is they can deal extra damage on deathrattle. Otherwise they are as bland as a minion gets. Just because a card provides +2 card advantage doesn't automatically make it good. Dark Whispers gives you +4 card advantage by dropping 5 1/1 Whisps. It's still a pretty bad card (not really, the ability to choose effect makes it decent and the +5/+5 and Taunt is at least decent). Cenarius gives you 2x 2/2 taunts (+2 card advantage players can't just ignore while they beat your face). Nourish lets you draw 3 cards (+2 card advantage that helps you draw deeper into your deck). Flamestrike can give you a potential +6 card advantage (as it nukes a board full of minions).

Every time I see dr Boom, I have no problems dealing with him.

You always have both AoE and hard removal in hand, and neither have been fished, AND Dr Boom is not specifically fishing one or both so that the FOLLOWING cards can be played with impunity?

I'm not saying Dr Boom is an auto-win. I'm saying he's very strong to the point of being the best use of 7 mana in almost all situations.

The 5 1hp wisps are weak because you're spending 6 mana on bodies that can be removed with a single 1-mana whirlwind (etc) with no negative consequences. Even if you had BGH and say, whirlwind in hand (anyone can run BGH but of course AoE is class dependent), you'd have to play 2 cards and use 4 mana to remove it. Never mind the fact that requiring two specific cards from your deck to counter one Dr Boom means a lot of the time, you're not going to have the specific cards you need in hand. AND, even when you do remove them, the bombs may still cause serious damage to your board or face (NOT uncommon).

Cenarius isn't bad and sees some druid play, but of course he's in the extremely expensive 9 mana position.

I don't know why you'd compare Nourish or Flamestrike. The latter is a very common Mage include anyway.

[Eroginous]

You always have both AoE and hard removal in hand, and neither have been fished, AND Dr Boom is not specifically fishing one or both so that the FOLLOWING cards can be played with impunity?

If you saw the lists I run, yes, you would understand where I'm coming from. Nearly every deck I play has anywhere from 10-20 cards dedicated to killing minions. That's how you win in HS or any other minion-based game.

I'm not saying Dr Boom is an auto-win. I'm saying he's very strong to the point of being the best use of 7 mana in almost all situations.

I'm posting here about Dr. Boom and the notion that he's 'overpowered' and 'needs a nerf.' I think he's fine, a little under powered for a legendary.

The 5 1hp wisps are weak because you're spending 6 mana on bodies that can be removed with a single 1-mana whirlwind (etc) with no negative consequences. Even if you had BGH and say, whirlwind in hand (anyone can run BGH but of course AoE is class dependent), you'd have to play 2 cards and use 4 mana to remove it. Never mind the fact that requiring two specific cards from your deck to counter one Dr Boom means a lot of the time, you're not going to have the specific cards you need in hand. AND, even when you do remove them, the bombs may still cause serious damage to your board or face (NOT uncommon).

Playing a card game is about making decisions about what to play and when to play it, alongside decisions about when to eat face damage or prevent it. Most of the time I can ignore the 1/1s because they are inconsequential. Even if they die, they deathrattle for a randomly chosen amount of damage to a randomly chosen target. That means they could hit my face for 4 or hit my totem for 1. Even if they both hit my face for 8, it shouldn't be a game changing thing (because 30 health + whatever armor). Now, as far as 'best 7 drop' goes, I can think of better options for any class I play (druid, mage, shaman).

Neptulon
Ancient of Lore
Ancient of War
Malorne
Archmage Antonidas
Flame Leviathan

Cenarius isn't bad and sees some druid play, but of course he's in the extremely expensive 9 mana position.

In the deck I run, he's great. In all my decks, I basically stall the early game until I can play hard to deal with minions and win. Classic control strat.

I don't know why you'd compare Nourish or Flamestrike. The latter is a very common Mage include anyway.

I was comparing the difference in card advantage generated by either card. Nourish can get you 3 really amazing cards from your deck. Flamestrike can obliterate your opponents board and give you massive card advantage. The point being the quality of the card advantage offered, matters more than just getting card advantage. Novice engineer is one of the worst cards in the game, yet everyone still plays it. Lots of people don't understand concepts like card advantage.

[haxartus]

I'm wondering whether I should craft this or Ragnaros first. I need both in the deck.
Honestly it seems a bit weaker than Ragnaros because Ragnaros is guaranteed 8 damage, no matter what. Obviously Boom could end up taking 2 minions even if it's BGH'd but that's the optimal scenario.

[Deleted]

A generic 7/7 isn't hard to deal with, neither are two 1/1s. Their random damage doesn't hurt nearly as bad as people say, even if it hits for 4 each, it's not enough to kill anything substantial unless it hits the same minion or ends up being the final bit of damage. As I said before, Ragnaros is better at doing large amounts of damage and he's got a bigger body (harder to deal with than Dr. Boom), while at the same time being really easy to deal with.

I think you're making minion presence out to be far better than it actually is in this game. Every class has easy ways of dealing with minions, especially generic 7/7s. I also think you're putting too much value into the damage the bots do. Literally everything in this game does damage. There are much better ways to deal 1-4 damage at less cost and earlier in the game. There are much better late game cards that will impact your opponent's board and his chances of winning.

This is the worst post I have ever seen. Everything is wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm wondering whether I should craft this or Ragnaros first. I need both in the deck.
Honestly it seems a bit weaker than Ragnaros because Ragnaros is guaranteed 8 damage, no matter what. Obviously Boom could end up taking 2 minions even if it's BGH'd but that's the optimal scenario.

Boom is much much better than Ragnaros. And is a better deploy in 90% of situations.

[Konik]

7/5 and bots hitting for 1-3 dmg

still great but not that OP

solved

[Eroginous]

This is the worst post I have ever seen. Everything is wrong.

Thanks for offering a non-constructive opinion and nothing else.

[Deleted]

Thanks for offering a non-constructive opinion and nothing else.

It's more constructive than whatever you wrote that's for sure. Your post consists of saying ''a generic 7/7 is not that hard to deal with'' and the rest of it is basically downplaying the efficiency and value of boom bots. First, it is a 9/9 for 7 mana. The power being spread into 3 bodies is huge and strictly better then being a 9/9 on its own. You then say two 1/1 are also easy to deal with. But you don't seem to understand that for clearing this 7/7 and two 1/1's the enemy has to waste atleast 2 cards. (unless it's brawl or twisting nether, and you still get free damage to face from bots and waste their turn). Boom is an automatic 2 for 1 in most games. Possibly even more. The additional deathrattle effect is also not as harmless as you make it out to be. A boombot can potentially take out a minion with 5 toughness on its own. Sure it's random, but the potential is there. Have you watched the ASUS challenge last weekend? Everyone crafted Boom as their first legendary and put it in their deck. Savjz also got lucky withboom bots rng to win one of his last games.

Fact is, Boom is the best minion in the game right now. You put him into every single deck (maybe not into face hunter and even there he is great). He is never a bad deploy. I don't know if he deserves to be nerfed or not but downplaying the value of the strongest minion in the game makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about, or just don't want him to get nerfed. Here's a thought. If Blizzard would release a 3 mana 6/6 minion with no drawback, would it be balanced because it dies to deadly shot?

[Sarevokcz]

It's more constructive than whatever you wrote that's for sure. Your post consists of saying ''a generic 7/7 is not that hard to deal with'' and the rest of it is basically downplaying the efficiency and value of boom bots. First, it is a 9/9 for 7 mana. The power being spread into 3 bodies is huge and strictly better then being a 9/9 on its own. You then say two 1/1 are also easy to deal with. But you don't seem to understand that for clearing this 7/7 and two 1/1's the enemy has to waste atleast 2 cards. (unless it's brawl or twisting nether, and you still get free damage to face from bots and waste their turn). Boom is an automatic 2 for 1 in most games. Possibly even more. The additional deathrattle effect is also not as harmless as you make it out to be. A boombot can potentially take out a minion with 5 toughness on its own. Sure it's random, but the potential is there. Have you watched the ASUS challenge last weekend? Everyone crafted Boom as their first legendary and put it in their deck. Savjz also got lucky withboom bots rng to win one of his last games.

Fact is, Boom is the best minion in the game right now. You put him into every single deck (maybe not into face hunter and even there he is great). He is never a bad deploy. I don't know if he deserves to be nerfed or not but downplaying the value of the strongest minion in the game makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about, or just don't want him to get nerfed. Here's a thought. If Blizzard would release a 3 mana 6/6 minion with no drawback, would it be balanced because it dies to deadly shot?

first, look at onyxia, shes 14/14 for 9 mana, but doesnt see any play, even tho she is ALSO very often 2/3 for 1 card...

second, hes slow, high manacost card, I would EXPECT from those cards to have high 2 for 1 potential

and third, there are plenty of 2 for 1 cards, often with way bigger tempo swing than what boom can achieve, like BGH (which most of the time goes 1 for 1 with boom, but 2 for 1s basically all other big cards) or with the new token spawning cards, knife juggler reached the "ridiculous" level, too...

the difference is, people got used to knife juggler shenanigans by now AND there are some alternatives for aggro decks (well, mechs mostly, all nonmech aggro decks do run jugglers), but there arent really any good big cards, that have the same board presence as boom.

[Deleted]

Onyxia is 9 mana. If you play Onyxia you can't do anything else on your turn. Boom is 7. He comes down 2 turns faster in a metagame where hunters can have lethal at turn 5. You can also play additional cards with him in 1 turn. Yes, I would expect higher costing minions to have high 2 for 1 potential aswell. The difference between Onyxia and Boom is that if your enemy clears board you have nothing. But the boom bots can kill minions in response or at the very least do damage to face and apply pressure. Boom is vastly superior to Onyxia it isn't even a question.

And again, I'm not saying he needs to be nerfed. I just had an issue with the guy above talking like Dr.Boom isn't the best minion in the game. His logic and arguments were faulty too.

[shammypie]

Onyxia is 9 mana. If you play Onyxia you can't do anything else on your turn. Boom is 7. He comes down 2 turns faster in a metagame where hunters can have lethal at turn 5. You can also play additional cards with him in 1 turn. Yes, I would expect higher costing minions to have high 2 for 1 potential aswell. The difference between Onyxia and Boom is that if your enemy clears board you have nothing. But the boom bots can kill minions in response or at the very least do damage to face and apply pressure. Boom is vastly superior to Onyxia it isn't even a question.

And again, I'm not saying he needs to be nerfed. I just had an issue with the guy above talking like Dr.Boom isn't the best minion in the game. His logic and arguments were faulty too.

he isn't the best minion in the game that's what people are trying to tell you. There is no best minion in the game.

[Dilbon]

There is no best minion in the game.

Tirion Fordring disagrees.