Dr. Boom

[Taalyn]

Erogineous said it right for all those advocating a 7/5 Dr. Boom. He's is currently countered with a BGH. 5 health doesn't change this. There isn't anything else to use BGH on and if there is run a 2nd BGH or Rend Blackhand.

Dr. Boom's strength is the bombs. Without them he is a War Golem.

[eclypsus]

Let's break down Dr. Boom:

For 7 mana you get a 7/7 and 2X 1/1s.
-That in itself is very good value. It's basically 8 or 9 manas worth right there.
-The fact that you get 3 bodies from 1 card instantly is, in my opinion additional value. It means you have to use several cards/minions to deal with it.

Each of the 1/1s have a deathrattle that will do 1-4 random damage to an enemy.
-This makes dealing with the Boom bots a little more troublesome, while simultaneously adding even more value.

So as someone said earlier in the thread, this makes Dr. Boom an excellent Pressure card. First off, the 7/7 body has to be dealt with quickly or you'll lose. If you can't deal with the 7/7 body in a timely fashion then the 2 boom bots won't really mean much for you in that game, your opponent could have played a War Golem and you'd likely be in as much trouble.

The 2 Boom bots are basically Dr. Boom's "legendary" effect. In their best case let's compare them to Ragnaros' effect occuring once (8 damage at random). The difference is that Ragnaros is only 1 body and can't attack in addition to his effect (unless he's silenced, in which case his effect won't occur). Does the RNG of the Boom bot dmg and the fact that it only occurs 1 time per compared to Ragnaros' happening each turn balance them out...impossible to say: depending on the game's situation and deck type: could be yes, could be no.

It's hard to be conclusive as to whether or not Dr. Boom is unbalanced. But I think it's fair to say that you get quite a lot of value from the card, which is why many decks play him. Is there a way to even out his value while maintaining what makes Dr. Boom a great a card:

-You can't lower his atk, you'd put him out of BGH range.
-Lowering his health to say 5, Ok makes him easier to deal with but the card retains most of it's value regardless.
-Make the boom bots' deathrattle hit any character (which has been suggested several times), think about that this way, if ragnaros' effect could hit any character, would he see play?? obviously not. Would it make Dr. Boom unplayable? In most cases Yes. It would nullify what makes him a good card.
-What if he summoned 1 boom bot at the end of each turn? that would make him too slow to be any good, although surely certain decks and situations could benefit from that change.

In the end Dr.Boom is too much value for 7 mana, what if he cost 8 mana and stayed exactly the same? I think just as many decks would run him. If you say well Dr. Boom is the most powerful 7 drop in the game: I would say to you that is it necessary to put down a card that costs 7 mana when you are on turn 7, 8 mana on turn 8...if you've designed your deck to play that way, then Dr. Boom is the least of your problems.

If the card were easy to balance, Blizz would have done so already. I think we may see him tweaked in the future but so far I haven't seen any suggestions to balance him that don't completely ruin him.

[haxartus]

If it was an 8 drop, it would still be the best neutral 8 drop in the game.
Ragnaros hits for 8 each turn, but if you opponent floods the board, it's absolutely useless.
Boom is not because if the board is full with low cost minions, it may take 3-4 minions to completely clear Boom after the deathrattles.
So, the most likely nerf is going to be 1 mana up.

[Deleted]

I sometimes end up dropping Ragnaros because of horrible RNG. It's not even about the opponent flooding the board and making him worse, because in those situations I am not expecting him to hit what I want, so that is normal, but missing 50/50 situations consecutively+him damaging face when there are 4 targets in the field or the opponent having 6 creatures and Ragnaros hits the Nerubian Egg...When I have abysmal Ragnaros RNG days I get so angry with him that I drop him for a few days.

[Rennadrel]

In the end Dr.Boom is too much value for 7 mana, what if he cost 8 mana and stayed exactly the same? I think just as many decks would run him. If you say well Dr. Boom is the most powerful 7 drop in the game: I would say to you that is it necessary to put down a card that costs 7 mana when you are on turn 7, 8 mana on turn 8...if you've designed your deck to play that way, then Dr. Boom is the least of your problems.

If the card were easy to balance, Blizz would have done so already. I think we may see him tweaked in the future but so far I haven't seen any suggestions to balance him that don't completely ruin him.

Most control decks have good cards in the 6, 7,8 and even 9 slots. My current control deck has Sylvanas, Dr Boom, Grommash and Ysera in that order. And if you manage to get them laid out in that order, your opponent is usually screwed unless they have board advantage before that.

Pretty much everything above 6 mana can be countered by BGH though, and my deck has two of those for late game if needed and I don't have my heavies on the field yet.

[wonderlust]

-What if he summoned 1 boom bot at the end of each turn? that would make him too slow to be any good, although surely certain decks and situations could benefit from that change.

Best solution I can think of is if he summons a bot at the end of your turn. Effects at the end of your turn -- immediate effect on the board -- are what makes some of the best legendaries (Rag, Thaurissan, Ysera) and breaks others (Pagle went from auto-include to never played again once his effect changed from end of turn to start of turn).
One guaranteed boom bot at the turn you play Dr. Boom is good enough that he would still see play, but he might no longer be an auto-include; which would be great.

[Solmyr13]

Best solution I can think of is if he summons a bot at the end of your turn. Effects at the end of your turn -- immediate effect on the board -- are what makes some of the best legendaries (Rag, Thaurissan, Ysera) and breaks others (Pagle went from auto-include to never played again once his effect changed from end of turn to start of turn).
One guaranteed boom bot at the turn you play Dr. Boom is good enough that he would still see play, but he might no longer be an auto-include; which would be great.

This is the only suggestion that looks to be decent. It also allows you to silence him if you don't have a BGH which gives you a bit more ways to deal with him. Overall I still don't think he's broken in his current iteration but I also wouldn't be opposed to this as a change.

[Eroginous]

Best solution I can think of is if he summons a bot at the end of your turn. Effects at the end of your turn -- immediate effect on the board -- are what makes some of the best legendaries (Rag, Thaurissan, Ysera) and breaks others (Pagle went from auto-include to never played again once his effect changed from end of turn to start of turn).
One guaranteed boom bot at the turn you play Dr. Boom is good enough that he would still see play, but he might no longer be an auto-include; which would be great.

I think this thread is a great example of a much larger issue with Hearthstone: not enough card variety. We're literally discussing a card being OP because it just happens to be capable of doing more damage than any other 7 drop in the game (even though that's not true).

[Rennadrel]

I think this thread is a great example of a much larger issue with Hearthstone: not enough card variety. We're literally discussing a card being OP because it just happens to be capable of doing more damage than any other 7 drop in the game (even though that's not true).

I think there are a lot of other high cost minions that could be better than they are, and there are a variety of cards that also need to be tuned better as well.

[Eroginous]

I think there are a lot of other high cost minions that could be better than they are, and there are a variety of cards that also need to be tuned better as well.

There are an excessive amount of minions in the game. There are also an excessive amount of neutral cards in the game. These two things are pretty much the result of boring game design. I think many of them need to be removed, moved to a specific class, and more card types need to be added to the game.

[Mormolyce]

Pretty much everything above 6 mana can be countered by BGH though

Except Kel'Thuzad, the most important thing to kill in the entire universe :*(

[Gootgot]

I like to laugh at people who think BGH counters Dr.Boom , i like to laugh at them as i pass them on the way to legend!

[haxartus]

Except Kel'Thuzad, the most important thing to kill in the entire universe :*(

Kel'Thuzad is useless.
I got it to help me in like 3 games out of 50. In the other games I was already winning when I got to use it, or I was losing and then it didn't do anything. It just makes sure that once you have a full board, you can't lose to a Flamestrike or something.
Boom has no conditions, you use it and it's 100% value.

[Sarevokcz]

I like to laugh at people who think BGH counters Dr.Boom , i like to laugh at them as i pass them on the way to legend!

he usually 1 for 1s with boom with 4 mana gain... then again, who needs BGH, when you have stuff like hunters mark or sap?

[Eroginous]

he usually 1 for 1s with boom with 4 mana gain... then again, who needs BGH, when you have stuff like hunters mark or sap?

Sap is actually a terrible way to 'deal with' Dr. Boom.

Kel'Thuzad is useless.
I got it to help me in like 3 games out of 50. In the other games I was already winning when I got to use it, or I was losing and then it didn't do anything. It just makes sure that once you have a full board, you can't lose to a Flamestrike or something.
Boom has no conditions, you use it and it's 100% value.

KT is terrible for two reasons:

1. High mana cost makes her prohibitive to play in an even matchup. This makes her a 'win more' type of card where in the event you are successful with her, you are already winning.

2. The sheer number of ways to deal with minions makes her an easy target. Minions are too easy to deal with in this game. So by the time you have a board you want to protect with her, you've already won the game through other means, or she gets dealt with the turn she comes down, effectively doing nothing to help.

Now, Dr. Boom being '100% value,' that's sort of laughable. Minions are too easy to deal with right now. Even if your opponent has to spent 2 cards to deal with Dr. Boom, it's almost always going to be the same cost to the other player as it was for you to play Dr. Boom. Sure, he might lose card advantage on that play, but there are probably other plays he made where he gained card advantage. AoEing down 2+ minions is fairly common, and that's where you gain card advantage.

[Deleted]

Just today I played against another Boom with Rag on the field. Rag had 4 hp. I bgh'd boom and he had 2 bots left. he suicides bots into bgh and they fly into Rag to deal 3 dmg. Lucky... And yet the other day they did 8 dmg to him.

When a minion has this wide range of RNG and is still consistently played in every deck it just shows you how strong it is. Most 7 drops couldn't even deal with the BGH. And boom bots are insanely strong, even if they sometimes don't work out the way you want them to. They are not ''just two 1/1's who deal random negligible damage'' as some people here are trying to paint them. Let's not forget Tinkmaster was in every deck before his huge nerf. There is a huge difference between 1/1 and 5/5 but it doesn't matter as long as you have that 3 mana hex on a 3/3 body.

[Eroginous]

Just today I played against another Boom with Rag on the field. Rag had 4 hp. I bgh'd boom and he had 2 bots left. he suicides bots into bgh and they fly into Rag to deal 3 dmg. Lucky... And yet the other day they did 8 dmg to him.

When a minion has this wide range of RNG and is still consistently played in every deck it just shows you how strong it is. Most 7 drops couldn't even deal with the BGH. And boom bots are insanely strong, even if they sometimes don't work out the way you want them to. They are not ''just two 1/1's who deal random negligible damage'' as some people here are trying to paint them. Let's not forget Tinkmaster was in every deck before his huge nerf. There is a huge difference between 1/1 and 5/5 but it doesn't matter as long as you have that 3 mana hex on a 3/3 body.

First of all, the only point of health that matters is the last one from your hero. Second, The damage the bots deal IS negligible. Your hero starts with 30 HP. Even if they do the maximum damage (4 each) there's no guarantee that damage will do anything to your hero, and if it hits your minions and kills them, so what? Is it not a fair trade if the bots take out one of your minions rather than doing face damage? I guess I'm just biased because I build decks where I decimate minions all day long with spells, so I don't see a card like Dr. Boom as anything special (he's actually much worse than just about any other damage dealing spell because of RNG). I'd rather play Flamestrike and wipe your board than Dr. Boom and watch him get BGH'd while the bots hit 1/1s.

I mean seriously, Flamestrike has the potential to deal 28 fucking damage. Boom bots have the potential to do 8. Do you not understand the difference in swing power? You can't silence a Flamestrike. You can't decide when and where Dr. Boom's damage goes. Once you've played Dr. Boom, you've decided to roll the dice and see if he ever does anything useful (which is pretty much the same as any minion). Cards like Flamestrike are instantly effective, nearly impossible to counter, and always leave your board in shambles. Boom Bots could trigger for 1 damage each and hit your face, having zero effect on the board.

Which is why Dr. Boom is a bad card.

Lastly, Blizzard makes cards like Dr. Boom because they are okay with RNG and the occasional 'epic play' because of it. That's why Dr. Boom hasn't been nerfed yet, and honestly isn't over powered.

[Polarthief]

I've got another idea. First, I love the idea of having him summon a bot at the end of all your turns. Genius idea and also buffs silence (a mechanic that's usually ignored), while nerfing Dr. Boom's immediate value. An addon to this idea would be that silencing a bot switches its targeting mechanism. In other words, silencing a Boom Bot does damage to the player that controls it. The card would read the following: "Deathrattle: Deal 1-4 damage to a random enemy. Silenced, Deathrattle: Deal 1-4 damage to a random ally". This could also make Silence more integrated into mechanics rather than just wiping card text, buffs, and debuffs. It's a nice buff to Silence that IMO is more than deserving, especially with how rare it usually is to see an Ironbeak or Spellbreaker (plus Priests never taking Silence or Mass Dispel).

[Deleted]

First of all, the only point of health that matters is the last one from your hero. Second, The damage the bots deal IS negligible. Your hero starts with 30 HP. Even if they do the maximum damage (4 each) there's no guarantee that damage will do anything to your hero, and if it hits your minions and kills them, so what? Is it not a fair trade if the bots take out one of your minions rather than doing face damage? I guess I'm just biased because I build decks where I decimate minions all day long with spells, so I don't see a card like Dr. Boom as anything special (he's actually much worse than just about any other damage dealing spell because of RNG). I'd rather play Flamestrike and wipe your board than Dr. Boom and watch him get BGH'd while the bots hit 1/1s.

I mean seriously, Flamestrike has the potential to deal 28 fucking damage. Boom bots have the potential to do 8. Do you not understand the difference in swing power? You can't silence a Flamestrike. You can't decide when and where Dr. Boom's damage goes. Once you've played Dr. Boom, you've decided to roll the dice and see if he ever does anything useful (which is pretty much the same as any minion). Cards like Flamestrike are instantly effective, nearly impossible to counter, and always leave your board in shambles. Boom Bots could trigger for 1 damage each and hit your face, having zero effect on the board.

Which is why Dr. Boom is a bad card.

Lastly, Blizzard makes cards like Dr. Boom because they are okay with RNG and the occasional 'epic play' because of it. That's why Dr. Boom hasn't been nerfed yet, and honestly isn't over powered.

Throughout the whole thread you have been trying to downplay the effects of boom bots. You are wrong. The effect is insane for two free 1/1 bodies. Comparing Boom to flamestrike? What? And lol at the bolded part. You have demonstrated multiple times you have no idea about the game anyway.

[Kronik85]

The game needs more Dr.Booms tbh, at least if you like the idea of a slower meta. Most of the best cards in the game are 1 and 2 drops, the value for mana they offer is insane compared to the late game heavies which mostly just suck up a hard removal spell.

There was a time when people used to constantly bitch about Ragnaros, I'm sure the same will happen to Boom when a new playable 7+ drop comes out that actually does something other than dying to BGH comes along.