Fire, is it possible?

[Kulia]

Is it possible to play fire on every fight - expecting to be subpar on the single target fights.
Because, I don't really like arcane at all, I find it kinda boring, but I give big props to those of you who do play arcane and play it well as it's not as easy as it looks like on the outside. But I've kind of fallen in love with fire, and I was looking at the simcrafts (just on simcrafts website) and frost is just too far behind to be very viable IMO. So would I be able to viably play fire throughout Highmaul and BRF(capped a few days ago, gearing up atm) without people in pugs(which is the content I'm limited to) being all like "your dps sucks *kick*"

[Retsef]

Until you get the crit numbers and BRF 2p/4p then you are stuck probably playing Frost.

I do however main Fire on Heroic, and probably will on Mythic too, regardless of fight.

[LocNess]

It is fine with 35% crit or more. You won't be top or close to by any standards until you get like Heroic/Mythic BRF, but it is viable enough I suppose.

[Polarthief]

Is it possible to play fire on every fight - expecting to be subpar on the single target fights.
Because, I don't really like arcane at all, I find it kinda boring, but I give big props to those of you who do play arcane and play it well as it's not as easy as it looks like on the outside. But I've kind of fallen in love with fire, and I was looking at the simcrafts (just on simcrafts website) and frost is just too far behind to be very viable IMO. So would I be able to viably play fire throughout Highmaul and BRF(capped a few days ago, gearing up atm) without people in pugs(which is the content I'm limited to) being all like "your dps sucks *kick*"

I'm trialing* for a 6/10M guild going full Fire, and they don't really care. Just depends how well you can pull it off.


* What I mean to say is that I'm 2 weeks in and already told the GM that I'm probably quitting WoW, but he still said that I would have passed my trial just fine.

[Canonic]

Fire is just fine. Lexi plays every fight as fire, and most mages only play between 1-3 fights as arcane anyway.

[Notdev]

Fire's only problem in single target is that it isn't arcane. It's still very, very good at higher gear levels, and middle of the pack in say, heroic gear. I was able to pull out ~47k on M Gruul the one time I did it as Fire. There are a lot of 50k+ parses as well.

[Polarthief]

Fire's only problem in single target is that it isn't arcane. It's still very, very good at higher gear levels, and middle of the pack in say, heroic gear. I was able to pull out ~47k on M Gruul the one time I did it as Fire. There are a lot of 50k+ parses as well.

Definitely this. On a pure standstill, single-target, fight, assuming equal skill and gear, you'll never see Fire ahead of Arcane unless the Arcane Mage REEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY fucks up or gets awful RNG on random elements (Cave Ins, Smashes/Slams, any other random element where the two of you aren't stacked up).

Does that mean I'm going to play Arcane on ST, Standstill fights? HELL NO. Mythic progression is pretty much over and all the bosses my guild has left, Fire beats out Arcane anyways (except for Blackhand but my guild isn't getting him when they haven't even re-killed Kromog [a farm boss] yet since they got him).

[ohpocket]

In order to be more than decent with fire on single target, like others mentioned you need to have a high value of crit, and combine that with prismatic crystal.

[Deleted]

If you think well enough about the fights and how youre going to use your Cds,for example Pc on Kromog with Combustion is INSANE on Pillar if youre dealing the third spawn etc.
If you do that and know what youre doing,fire will perform just fine-very good

[Deleted]

I will start gearing up my mage as fire and i was wondering if its worth it to uprgrade the inscription trinket to level 4 ? Is it better than normal Darmac, since i dont think i will be getting any heroic gear on my mage.

[Soul Reaper909]

Fire actually works out better than arcane on single target fights but you need to be close to BIS at that stage but as people have said you need Crystal for that to work and you have to sacrifice more gnomes to the RNG gods to get the crits when you need it most in a short time frame.

[Deleted]

Definitely this. On a pure standstill, single-target, fight, assuming equal skill and gear, you'll never see Fire ahead of Arcane unless the Arcane Mage REEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY fucks up or gets awful RNG on random elements (Cave Ins, Smashes/Slams, any other random element where the two of you aren't stacked up).

Does that mean I'm going to play Arcane on ST, Standstill fights? HELL NO. Mythic progression is pretty much over and all the bosses my guild has left, Fire beats out Arcane anyways (except for Blackhand but my guild isn't getting him when they haven't even re-killed Kromog [a farm boss] yet since they got him).

Wrong. The Variance of both specs is big enough that fire can pull ahead with good RNG on the Combustions in single Target. In Fact, with both specs having their best possible RNG, fire will come out ahead in single target with current max gear. So you can essentially say, that fire has the higher single target DPS potential of both specs but arcane wins on average. On www.simulationcraft.com you see the average among 25000+parses, if u check the variance you will see that fire actually can reach bigger dps with enough RNG. But your claim, that you will never see fire ahead of arcane is both practically (see warcraft logs oregorger/gruul with fire pulling ahead) and theoretically wrong.

Simulations are one thing, current oregorger logs are another thing: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/7#boss=1696

#1 parse is a fire Mage and on Gruul Fire and Arcane are pretty much equal.

PS: I also like how you call your guild "they".


@OP: Fire is perfectly fine with 700~ gear and 2/4P Setbonus. However, its quite challenging to master PC, but also quite rewarding

[M1r4g3]

If you think well enough about the fights and how youre going to use your Cds,for example Pc on Kromog with Combustion is INSANE on Pillar if youre dealing the third spawn etc.
If you do that and know what youre doing,fire will perform just fine-very good

i've tried it on kromog its good overall but for the pillars its unreliable as hell, you can either get great rng with 4p or the oregorger trinket proc during the phase and do loads of dmg or barely get 1 pyro on the pc before the pillar dies even which is what happens in most cases. (though its still nice for padding since the damage seems to tick even after they die)

And yea you can play fire on single target but not without 2p and only at ~700+ ilvl does it do equal/more/less damage than arcane. The most important thing for fire on single target is being able to consistently double ignite off the crystal.

[Deleted]

You dont double IB Combust for Pillars pretty much,you just Comb your Crystal,Spread to Pillar to Boss and youll easily get 800k+ each Pillarphase.(If youre going for overall Dps ofc double IB,but the longer preparationtime will simple decrease your Pillardamage for more Bossdmg)

[Polarthief]

Wrong. The Variance of both specs is big enough that fire can pull ahead with good RNG on the Combustions in single Target. In Fact, with both specs having their best possible RNG, fire will come out ahead in single target with current max gear. So you can essentially say, that fire has the higher single target DPS potential of both specs but arcane wins on average. On www.simulationcraft.com you see the average among 25000+parses, if u check the variance you will see that fire actually can reach bigger dps with enough RNG. But your claim, that you will never see fire ahead of arcane is both practically (see warcraft logs oregorger/gruul with fire pulling ahead) and theoretically wrong.

Simulations are one thing, current oregorger logs are another thing: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/7#boss=1696

#1 parse is a fire Mage and on Gruul Fire and Arcane are pretty much equal.

That's just the thing though: How often do you get perfect RNG? Arcane is definitely more consistent while Fire will sometimes be awesome, but plenty of times royally fuck you. Just notice how few Fire Mages there are to Arcane. (Also, for the Oregorger ones, if you get an amazing combustion right when Rolling Frenzy starts, you can then spread it to a few boxes)

Perfect example, I did Kromog tonight as Fire, and over half the attempts, I didn't get more than 1 crit on a Pillar for a Combustion (and we were BARELY making the DPS check for that)

PS: I also like how you call your guild "they".

Long story short: I recently joined them thinking Mythics would make me want to keep playing, but they didn't, so I'm quitting after being a trial for them for two weeks.

So I wouldn't exactly say "we" when I was brand new to them.

You dont double IB Combust for Pillars pretty much,you just Comb your Crystal,Spread to Pillar to Boss and youll easily get 800k+ each Pillarphase.(If youre going for overall Dps ofc double IB,but the longer preparationtime will simple decrease your Pillardamage for more Bossdmg)

I'm not using crystal and I easily hit 1M+ each Pillar phase if I got at least 1 Pyro crit on it for a Combustion. I definitely used them early, but I was having shit RNG all last night.

[Deleted]

Well i was directly responding to "you will never see fire ahead of arcane on single target". I already mentioned that on Average Arcane performs better with current max gear. But the highest peaks (top logs) are on the fire side.

The reason that there are so little fire logs, are that not many top mages play fire on those bosses. Yes fire can sometimes really fuck you up.

To the guys who played fire on Kromog: Can you actually spread from Kromog to all 3 Pillars? If so fire would be super legit.

[Deleted]

I'm not using crystal and I easily hit 1M+ each Pillar phase if I got at least 1 Pyro crit on it for a Combustion. I definitely used them early, but I was having shit RNG all last night.

Mind sharing a log where you've got 1M + damage on Pillars, or, one Pillar with only one Pyro critt before Combustion? Because I checked your 13 wipes and 1 kill from todays raid I found on WcL, and you only did twice more than 1M damage on one set of Pillars and it wasn't only one Pyro critt.


Anyway, did anyone mannage to spread Combustion from Crystal to 2 Pillars and Kromog itself?

[Deleted]

I only did Pc-->Pillar-->Kromog,resulting in 1.25m Damage,and no you cant spread Kromog-->all Pillars

[Ipsissimus]

Mind sharing a log where you've got 1M + damage on Pillars, or, one Pillar with only one Pyro critt before Combustion? Because I checked your 13 wipes and 1 kill from todays raid I found on WcL, and you only did twice more than 1M damage on one set of Pillars and it wasn't only one Pyro critt.


Anyway, did anyone mannage to spread Combustion from Crystal to 2 Pillars and Kromog itself?

Overstating numbers or citing stars aligned parses as the standard ones have been default behaviour on most WoW forums since forever ^^

On topic: As said already, once you max out on gear Fire pulls ahead of Arcane when RNG goes your way. However, although Fire is behind Arcane on Single Target before that, I think Blackhand is the only encounter where it'd really matter. You're not going to look too bad or cause any issues on Oregorger, Gruul, Flamebender, Blast Furnace or Kromog. The encounters either allow you to look alright due to the (sometimes limited) AoE in them, or are simply not tuned harshly enough for your DPS to be a problem. Admittedly, the same can be expanded to include Blackhand, but it is a jump in difficulty compared to previous bosses.

The good news are that you'll be able to very comfortably just stick with Fire without any concerns whatsoever, come tier 18. As long as nothing radical happens.

[Polarthief]

Well i was directly responding to "you will never see fire ahead of arcane on single target". I already mentioned that on Average Arcane performs better with current max gear. But the highest peaks (top logs) are on the fire side.

The reason that there are so little fire logs, are that not many top mages play fire on those bosses. Yes fire can sometimes really fuck you up.

To the guys who played fire on Kromog: Can you actually spread from Kromog to all 3 Pillars? If so fire would be super legit.

My apologies; I guess I should have mentioned "unless you get absolute best RNG". Fire's ceiling goes well beyond any class's, but only because its RNG gap is retardedly huge, and that's why the top Mages don't really play Fire for ST because it's very inconsistent.

No, you can't, but you do get to spread your Combustion from the Pillar to Kromog!

Mind sharing a log where you've got 1M + damage on Pillars, or, one Pillar with only one Pyro critt before Combustion? Because I checked your 13 wipes and 1 kill from todays raid I found on WcL, and you only did twice more than 1M damage on one set of Pillars and it wasn't only one Pyro critt.

Anyway, did anyone mannage to spread Combustion from Crystal to 2 Pillars and Kromog itself?

Might have exaggerated slightly then; I was almost positive I got one bad Combustion, but then got a huge string of lucky crits, but as you probably saw, most of my Pillar damage was really bad (like 500-600k bad) due to really piss poor RNG.

No, you can't.

The good news are that you'll be able to very comfortably just stick with Fire without any concerns whatsoever, come tier 18. As long as nothing radical happens.

You mean like losing 2P T17 (they will nerf it), getting a SHIT Archimonde trinket, very meh set bonuses, and probably a nerf halfway through the tier?

At least Mastery is looking way better for Frost, so outside of its MS requirement, the stat gap between the 3 specs is slooooowly getting smaller.