Need help with arms

[Khelon]

So far I've only dpsed in fury spec and tanked some fights in prot spec. But seeing how my guild might reach iron maidens soon, I need to be prepared to play arms for this fight.

I've been practicing on dummies for a while now, but I dont really understand the most important part about this spec. Is sweeping strikes uptime priority similar to enrage uptime for fury?

Cleaving mechanic is also something Im not sure about. How does sweeping strikes cleave when you use aoe abilities? Does it cleave of your main target to other targets around you or does it also cleave of targets that you hit your thunderclap with?

Is it better to use 2 proc trinkets since colossus smash have short cooldown?

[Archimtiros]

To be fair you can play Fury on Iron Maidens just fine, and it can even be (controversially) as good/better, depending on your strategy. Most notably, if you are doing ship duty, most players like Fury better than Arms for obvious reasons. Since you asked about Arms though;

Sweeping Strikes uptime is very important, but it isn't subject to randomness like Enrage because it isn't a proc. As long as you don't run out of Rage and you use the ability on cooldown, you can keep 100% uptime on it.

It's cleave is rather simple, a portion of the damage of any attack is duplicated onto a single nearby target. Notice the underlines for emphasis, it doesn't copy the actual attack. For example, if you use Execute, you aren't hitting the cleaved target with another Execute; Sweeping Strikes deals the damage after calculating a percentage of the initial hit.

This is important for AoE attacks such as Whirlwind, because only the damage is duplicated, not the attack. Sweeping Strikes doesn't cause you to Whirlwind again, it just takes the damage from one hit, calculates the percentage and applies that damage to the closest nearby target.

In practice this means you Whirlwind the three Maidens, and Sweeping Strikes will hit one of them for 50% of the damage of the initial Whirlwind hit.



On use trinket is still powerful because you can line it up with other procs, Bloodbath, Potion, CS, etc.

[Khelon]

To be fair you can play Fury on Iron Maidens just fine, and it can even be (controversially) as good/better, depending on your strategy. Most notably, if you are doing ship duty, most players like Fury better than Arms for obvious reasons. Since you asked about Arms though;

Sweeping Strikes uptime is very important, but it isn't subject to randomness like Enrage because it isn't a proc. As long as you don't run out of Rage and you use the ability on cooldown, you can keep 100% uptime on it.

It's cleave is rather simple, a portion of the damage of any attack is duplicated onto a single nearby target. Notice the underlines for emphasis, it doesn't copy the actual attack. For example, if you use Execute, you aren't hitting the cleaved target with another Execute; Sweeping Strikes deals the damage after calculating a percentage of the initial hit.

This is important for AoE attacks such as Whirlwind, because only the damage is duplicated, not the attack. Sweeping Strikes doesn't cause you to Whirlwind again, it just takes the damage from one hit, calculates the percentage and applies that damage to the closest nearby target.

In practice this means you Whirlwind the three Maidens, and Sweeping Strikes will hit one of them for 50% of the damage of the initial Whirlwind hit.



On use trinket is still powerful because you can line it up with other procs, Bloodbath, Potion, CS, etc.

In my guilds heroic farm clears I sadly end up tanking this fight for the most part (as we only do heroic clears if we dont have 20 man for mythic) and I havent had practice on fury for that fight for a long time now. Hopefully I can get to try arms next time.

But does the target I cleave off debuffs matter at all? Like if I use CS on sorka, will admiral and marak also take increased cleave dmg because sorka has CS debuff? If yes, wouldnt this make whirlwind spam a better choice over mortal strike during CS?

[Warriorsarri]

Sweeping Strikes deals 50% of the damage you deal to your main target, to a secondary target. Any and all personal buffs you have that increase the damage you deal (CS, Avatar, random boss mechanic that makes you deal extra damage). Only time when Sweeping Strikes will cleave less than 50% of the damage you dealt is if the target you're attacking has a damage increasing modifier, in these cases you'll cleave 50% of the original/pre modified damage (a 200k hit on a target that takes 200% damage will cleave for 50k).

[Archimtiros]

More specifically, if the target has an aura that makes it (and only that) target take more damage. Example being Garalon from MoP T14 (The big bug tank thing in HoF). It's legs get an aura which make them take +100% (?) damage, and it was that encounter which caused Sweeping Strikes and other cleaves to be patched this way in the first place.

Previously, cleaving off that leg would make anything else hit by Sweeping Strikes also take the +100% increased damage (or more accurately, your attack would deal +100% damage and then a percentage of that boosted damage was applied to the secondary target).

Now the damage of the main attack is calculated (call it A), then 50% of that is calculated (B), then the +100% increased damage is applied only to A but not B.

[Headscutter]

This is important for AoE attacks such as Whirlwind, because only the damage is duplicated, not the attack. Sweeping Strikes doesn't cause you to Whirlwind again, it just takes the damage from one hit, calculates the percentage and applies that damage to the closest nearby target.

In practice this means you Whirlwind the three Maidens, and Sweeping Strikes will hit one of them for 50% of the damage of the initial Whirlwind hit.

I've tested and also heard that Sweeping Strikes only duplicates off of Single Target hits. I use MSBT addon and I tried to hit the dummy in my garrison (I turned my back to the dummy) with WW while I had Sweeping Strikes active, and I wasn't getting any dmg from Sweeping Strikes. Meanwhile when I used MS I was doing dmg with Sweeping Strikes, and I also tried to face the dummy as I did with MS and then use WW but I was only getting 1 Sweeping Strikes dmg which was from my autoattacks.

As far as I know SS only triggers from ST attacks.

[Deleted]

I've tested and also heard that Sweeping Strikes only duplicates off of Single Target hits. I use MSBT addon and I tried to hit the dummy in my garrison (I turned my back to the dummy) with WW while I had Sweeping Strikes active, and I wasn't getting any dmg from Sweeping Strikes. Meanwhile when I used MS I was doing dmg with Sweeping Strikes, and I also tried to face the dummy as I did with MS and then use WW but I was only getting 1 Sweeping Strikes dmg which was from my autoattacks.

As far as I know SS only triggers from ST attacks.

Nah, it definitely works with Whirlwind, just went and tested to be sure. Facing away from dummy with sweeping strikes active



Your Sweeping Strikes hit Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 2169 Physical.
Your Whirlwind hit Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 5996 Physical.
Your Whirlwind hit Raider's Training Dummy 5858 Physical.
Your Whirlwind hit Dungeoneer's Training Dummy 1799 Physical. (Multistrike)

[Archimtiros]

I've tested and also heard that Sweeping Strikes only duplicates off of Single Target hits. I use MSBT addon and I tried to hit the dummy in my garrison (I turned my back to the dummy) with WW while I had Sweeping Strikes active, and I wasn't getting any dmg from Sweeping Strikes. Meanwhile when I used MS I was doing dmg with Sweeping Strikes, and I also tried to face the dummy as I did with MS and then use WW but I was only getting 1 Sweeping Strikes dmg which was from my autoattacks.

As far as I know SS only triggers from ST attacks.

Zaenux beat me to it, but he is correct. Sweeping Strikes procs from almost every direct physical attack we have including Thunder Clap and Whirlwind. For AoE attacks though it will only copy one hit, not all of them.

AFAIK, the only thing's Sweeping Strikes will not proc on are Shockwave, Dragon Roar and Ravager.

[Headscutter]

Thanks for the comments, maybe something was just wrong when I tested it.

[Astynax]

1. So if SS is used with Bladestorm hitting 3 targets, SS will only give 50% damage to one other target similar to WW, or will it SS on each bladestorm hit = 3 SS?

2. How does it determine which target will receive the extra SS hit? Closest to the target you're targetting? What if you arent targetting anything, will it fall on the closest then? IE. If I want to do more damage on Marak, M is closest, S is next, G is furthest, would just just clear target for the duration of the bladestorm or WW to pool all SS onto Marak?

3. How does Multistrikes factor into this? If I MS a target and it multis, will the multi get 50% cleaved onto the next target too? Or is this separate where I can MS, no multi, SS onto target 2 and then this SS can multi?

[Archimtiros]

1. So if SS is used with Bladestorm hitting 3 targets, SS will only give 50% damage to one other target similar to WW, or will it SS on each bladestorm hit = 3 SS?

2. How does it determine which target will receive the extra SS hit? Closest to the target you're targetting? What if you arent targetting anything, will it fall on the closest then? IE. If I want to do more damage on Marak, M is closest, S is next, G is furthest, would just just clear target for the duration of the bladestorm or WW to pool all SS onto Marak?

3. How does Multistrikes factor into this? If I MS a target and it multis, will the multi get 50% cleaved onto the next target too? Or is this separate where I can MS, no multi, SS onto target 2 and then this SS can multi?

1. Sweeping Strikes will proc once with each tick of Bladestorm. 7 ticks may hit 3 targets each for 21 different damaging actions, but Sweeping Strikes will only cause an additional 7 hits; not 21.

Clarification: Bladestorm Tick 1 hits targest A, B and C, while Sweeping Strikes hits target B once. Bladestorm Tick 2 hits targets A, B and C, while Sweeping Strikes hits target B once. And so on.

2. Not sure to be honest, probably has to do with range with closest target. The damage is so insignificant it wouldn't matter however, especially due to the smaller modifier when copying AoE damage. You'd do more single target damage by keeping your primary target focused since you continue to auto attack while Bladestorming.

3. Sweeping Strikes doesn't interact with Multistrike.

[Deleted]

Ofcourse rend doesn't effect sweeping strikes.
But the question is. Does enhanced rend?

[Archimtiros]

Ofcourse rend doesn't effect sweeping strikes.
But the question is. Does enhanced rend?

No. Neither do because they don't deal direct damage, it's triggered/procced.

[lagunablade]

If you are doing maidens as arms, bladestorm is not really the best talent. But pretty much what archi said, SS does cleave off to the closet target.

[Archimtiros]

If you are doing maidens as arms, bladestorm is not really the best talent. But pretty much what archi said, SS does cleave off to the closet target.

Bloodbath is much stronger for Arms on 2-3 target cleave, whereas Bladestorm is the better choice as Fury.

[Deleted]

Haven't really tried testing it because it doesn't make much sense,does SS work with stormbolt?If yes,would it be better on for example Hans/Franz than Dragon roar?

[Archimtiros]

Haven't really tried testing it because it doesn't make much sense,does SS work with stormbolt?If yes,would it be better on for example Hans/Franz than Dragon roar?

Yes but no because Dragon Roar does full damage to each while Storm Bolt will only do half to the second target. Storm Bolt isn't stronger than DR by a large enough margin to make the cleave worthwhile. Plus there is a small range issue to consider, easy for a boss to be out of SS cleave range but within DR's range. Small consideration but nice when it happens.

[Deleted]

Now guys that i see you talking bout arms and Maidens , i was wondering if I should go arms for this fight , I mean , I was furying that fight normally cuz my raid always sent me to the boat but now my RL gave me the choice to stay down , AFAIK with arms in the end I will do more dmg input is that right? And after all this I really ask: BB >BS ? Will I see the numbers only on the 20% ? My doubts are because BS gives constant dmg all along the fight and in the end dont know what really do xD

P.S: Talking about HC or even Mithyc

Thanks in advance

[lagunablade]

You would want to go bloodbath for that fight. Because if you keep your dots on 3 of the bosses you will be rage capped half the times. And you will hardly find anytime when you can baldestorm. Especially if you have the mastery trinket from flame bender. Because mastery will not increase dmg of your bladestorm. But it will for mortal strikes. I have a 693 warrior, I normally sit at 50kish before execute phase, and execute phase depending on how well the tanks position the bosses it will be a good 6-10k dps increase