Archimonde is stronger than Deathwing

[Itisamuh]

I have seen nothing to suggest that Archimonde is stronger in lore than Deathwing. Aspects and Elemental Lords have always been shown to be second in power to Old Gods and Titans. And considering I doubt we ever face Sargeras directly, or an Old God that is actually awake and free, Deathwing will likely remain the most powerful villain we face. I put him over Ragnaros just due to him being both an Aspect and having Old God corruption.

[Rathbourne]

I have seen nothing to suggest that Archimonde is stronger in lore than Deathwing. Aspects and Elemental Lords have always been shown to be second in power to Old Gods and Titans. And considering I doubt we ever face Sargeras directly, or an Old God that is actually awake and free, Deathwing will likely remain the most powerful villain we face. I put him over Ragnaros just due to him being both an Aspect and having Old God corruption.

Archimonde's feats make DW look really small.Check out the things he did in WotA and WC3.And now he is known to be able to blow up planets at will.DW required the World Pillar to break the world.Archimonde and Kil'jaedan are easily the most powerful villians we've faced,discounting the Old Gods.

[eclypsus]

Whut?

Demons do not die, they just get banished and resurrect from the Twisting Nether...you sure as hell cannot make them undead.

Besides the Nathzrezim (malganis, tichondrius...) I'd love to see where it says that ALL demons when killed, return to the twisting nether to regenerate.
This fact may only be true for pure demons, and not those who were turned into demons (pitlords...).

Also, Lich King not only controls the Scourge but also an entire underground Nerubian kingdom of giant death bugs, undead dragons and has Professor Putricide on his team with the plague as his weapon.

In WC3, why do you think Kil'jaeden tasked Illidan to destroy Arthas?? Because Kil'jaeden knew that his powers' were getting too great, if the burning legion could have ROFLstomped the scourge then Kil'jaeden wouldn't have cared.

[Kralljin]

In WC3, why do you think Kil'jaeden tasked Illidan to destroy Arthas?? Because Kil'jaeden knew that his powers' were getting too great, if the burning legion could have ROFLstomped the scourge then Kil'jaeden wouldn't have cared.

Kil'jaeden made a pact with Ner'zhul, he gets a 2nd chance and serves the Burning Legion or suffers a fate of eternal pain, Ner'zhul obviously chose servitude and when he broke off from the Nathrezims control, he was obviously breaking the pact of KJ.

Kil'jaeden wanted to take revenge for Ner'zhuls betrayal and preventing that he will be the actual winner of the entire conflict caused by the Burning Legion (=Third war).

The Scourge was dangerous, but far from a universal threat or even a threat to the Burning Legion as a whole, it was more of a personal matter for Kil'jaeden.

[The Professional]

Besides the Nathzrezim (malganis, tichondrius...) I'd love to see where it says that ALL demons when killed, return to the twisting nether to regenerate.
This fact may only be true for pure demons, and not those who were turned into demons (pitlords...).

Also, Lich King not only controls the Scourge but also an entire underground Nerubian kingdom of giant death bugs, undead dragons and has Professor Putricide on his team with the plague as his weapon.

In WC3, why do you think Kil'jaeden tasked Illidan to destroy Arthas?? Because Kil'jaeden knew that his powers' were getting too great, if the burning legion could have ROFLstomped the scourge then Kil'jaeden wouldn't have cared.

You make good points, the lich king was always really powerful, i'll put him above old gods(except N'zoth) and deathwing and even Kil'jaden. In a one on one match tho i'll still give Archimonde a victory over the lich king simply because Archimonde in wc3 can cleave through 3 armies easily on his own with said armies having major characters that could rival tirion like jaina, thrall, tyrande, malfurion. And archimonde could destroy a magical city full of mages with just a simple spell. Archimonde could also as of 6.2 use a spell that could destroy the world and he doesn't need to go into a specific location like deathwing.

Legion vs Scourge depends on the situation, if the legion has enough time to send in a already huge force than the portals could keep supplying them into a aggressive push that the scourge won't be able to turn. However if the scourge are well prepared and catches the invasion very early with aggression, than they could destroy the portals quickly and just kill off the scattered legion forces. If Archimonde gets through to support the legion than the scourge would be in big trouble. If kil'jaeden gets through instead of Archimonde than the scourge would have a easy time since kil'jaeden focus on corrupting and mind games which won't work on the scourge.

In conclusion in a straight up brawl -> Archimonde mops the floor with both Kil'jaeden and Lich King at the same time.

[Deleted]

Archimonde could use a spell to send a massive meteor to destroy a planet as seen in 6.2 whenever he wants and where ever he wants and this would be way more destructive than a cataclysm.

Where do we see this in 6.2??? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious.

[Khaza-R]

Sort of OT but why the hell is Archimonde blue when nearly every other Eredar is red?

Besides the Nathzrezim (malganis, tichondrius...) I'd love to see where it says that ALL demons when killed, return to the twisting nether to regenerate.
This fact may only be true for pure demons, and not those who were turned into demons (pitlords...).

Also, Lich King not only controls the Scourge but also an entire underground Nerubian kingdom of giant death bugs, undead dragons and has Professor Putricide on his team with the plague as his weapon.

In WC3, why do you think Kil'jaeden tasked Illidan to destroy Arthas?? Because Kil'jaeden knew that his powers' were getting too great, if the burning legion could have ROFLstomped the scourge then Kil'jaeden wouldn't have cared.

He asked Illidan because he wasn't summoned into Azeroth and couldn't do it himself. And also because Ner'zhul's betrayal ultimately cost the Legion its victory at Hyjal.

[The Professional]

Where do we see this in 6.2??? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=247155/h...ungeon-journal

Make sure Archimonde is selected and than click on dungeon journal. Also he has two similar spells. Rain of chaos is the one where he sends many meteors down to damage player while Demonic art rain of chaos is the one where he sends a massive meteor down to destroy draenor when he reaches 25% hp.

[tachycardias]

Sargeras >>> All

[Aquamonkey]

Whut?

Demons do not die, they just get banished and resurrect from the Twisting Nether...you sure as hell cannot make them undead.

Tell that to Gul'dan who reanimates Mannoroth as a skeleton.

In WC3, why do you think Kil'jaeden tasked Illidan to destroy Arthas?? Because Kil'jaeden knew that his powers' were getting too great, if the burning legion could have ROFLstomped the scourge then Kil'jaeden wouldn't have cared.

KJ was pissed that Ner'zhul broke their deal. The LK was so weak he had to wait for Archimonde and the majority of Legion forces on Azeroth to be killed off before he made his move. The nathrezim who were supposed to be guarding the LK were thrown into confusion by the news that the Legion was defeated in Kalimdor. There was barely any Leigon presence on Azeroth after Mount Hyjal and KJ couldn't come personally, so he sent Illidan.

KJ didn't give 2 shits about the LK when he invaded Azeroth in person during TBC.

- - - Updated - - -

or an Old God that is actually awake and free,

C'Thun was awake and free.

Worse, C'Thun has awakened, freed itself, and reemerged from the planet's depths. (WC Encyclopedia)

We murderized it good. There's an entire plotlinein the comics about Cho'gall trying to resurrect it.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

The Lich King is arguably one of the weaker end-bosses we've fought, along with Kel'Thuzad and Garrosh. Kil'jaeden, Deathwing and Archimonde are all far more powerful.

While I agree that Lich King is weaker than Kil'Jaeden, Archimonde or Deathwing, his powerlvl is much closer to those guys, than to Kel'Thuzad or Garrosh (both being ants compared to him).

[Deleted]

While I agree that Lich King is weaker than Kil'Jaeden, Archimonde or Deathwing, his powerlvl is much closer to those guys, than to Kel'Thuzad or Garrosh (both being ants compared to him).

LOL, that's why Deathwing never dared to come out when the Lich King was still alive. Only after the LK was dead did he surface.
The LK would have wiped the floor with him, with ease.

[Rathbourne]

Tell that to Gul'dan who reanimates Mannoroth as a skeleton..

That wasnt ordinary necromancy.It seems to be a resurruction since Mannoroth regains his full body as the fight goes on.Reanimation doesnt give you your body back,atleast not from what we've seen.

[BatteredRose]

The real question is, is Superman stronger than Goku?

No, no he is not.

[Aethenor]

LOL, that's why Deathwing never dared to come out when the Lich King was still alive. Only after the LK was dead did he surface.
The LK would have wiped the floor with him, with ease.

That's the most pathetic argument I've heard. Deathwing wouldn't have been the tiniest bit scared of the Lich King. Hell, Alexstrasza wasn't scared of the Lich King and Deathwing was more powerful than her.

The Lich King's power comes from his command of the Scourge, not from being some uber unstoppable solo force. There are a lot of threats who 1 on 1 the Lich King wouldn't be a threat to - namely: Old Gods, Titans, Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, Queen Azshara, Deathwing (or any Dragon Aspect really), possibly even quite a few demigods (Malorne, Cenarius, etc).

We saw what happened to Death Knight/King Arthas in Warcraft 3 as the Lich King's command over the Scourge waned - so did his individual power.

The Scourge rely on the Lich King, but he relies on the Scourge just as much.

[eclypsus]

The Lich King's power comes from his command of the Scourge, not from being some uber unstoppable solo force. There are a lot of threats who 1 on 1 the Lich King wouldn't be a threat to - namely: Old Gods, Titans, Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, Queen Azshara, Deathwing (or any Dragon Aspect really), possibly even quite a few demigods (Malorne, Cenarius, etc).

First of all, didn't Grom Hellscream kill Cenarius in WC3?? And i'm pretty sure the Lich King could beat Grom 1v1 so saying cenarius is stronger then LK is ridiculous.

Also, when we fight LK in Icecrown citadel, he pretty much pwns the raid and the only reason he gets defeated is because of the *LIGHT* or some nonesense. No member of the burning legion has any control over the LIGHT, so they cannot exploit the LKs weakness.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure the plague controlled by the scourge could easily make a large dent in the burning legions armies...who would then be risen as new scourge soldiers!!!

In the end this can only be determined by knowing exactly what power level the Lich king, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde have...no one really knows for sure.

For example, Arthas was able to defeat Illidan before he put on the Helm of Domination. Then in the instance in the Halls of Reflection when Sylvanas engages the Lich King to give us time to escape, you hear her say that his powers have grown quite a bit since the last time. GOd knows how many souls Froustmourne has enslaved.

On the other hand Archimonde is probably the most bad-a$$ magic user we will ever encounter and we don't know the extent of that power. And Kil'jaeden granted Illidan his power and pretty much created the Lich King, so he's a beast as well. I doubt LK could beat them both at once, but I think he could hold his own against 1 for a time at least.

[Deleted]

First of all, didn't Grom Hellscream kill Cenarius in WC3?? And i'm pretty sure the Lich King could beat Grom 1v1 so saying cenarius is stronger then LK is ridiculous.

Also, when we fight LK in Icecrown citadel, he pretty much pwns the raid and the only reason he gets defeated is because of the *LIGHT* or some nonesense. No member of the burning legion has any control over the LIGHT, so they cannot exploit the LKs weakness.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure the plague controlled by the scourge could easily make a large dent in the burning legions armies...who would then be risen as new scourge soldiers!!!

In the end this can only be determined by knowing exactly what power level the Lich king, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde have...no one really knows for sure.

For example, Arthas was able to defeat Illidan before he put on the Helm of Domination. Then in the instance in the Halls of Reflection when Sylvanas engages the Lich King to give us time to escape, you hear her say that his powers have grown quite a bit since the last time. GOd knows how many souls Froustmourne has enslaved.

On the other hand Archimonde is probably the most bad-a$$ magic user we will ever encounter and we don't know the extent of that power. And Kil'jaeden granted Illidan his power and pretty much created the Lich King, so he's a beast as well. I doubt LK could beat them both at once, but I think he could hold his own against 1 for a time at least.

there is a demon priestess in Magister's Terrace that uses the Light. (She's the one who ressurrected Kael'thas) The light can be used by evil people if they belive what they're doing is right, so even a demon can in theory use it if they're fanatic about the Legion's mission and actually belive the universe is better off when they're done.

I'm pretty sure Deathwing was stronger than the Lich King in a 1v1 fight, but if the Lich King had managed to ressurrect Galakrond, Deathwing would have been in some big trouble. People tend to forget that we didn't really need the Dragon Soul to kill Deathwing, that is evident when you take a look at the End Times dungeon.. Deathwing suicides by impaling himself on Wyrmrest Temple. Just think what Galakrond or a dozen(hundred?) Frostwyrms could do to Deathwing. And the Lich King would have joined the fight aswell and he was no weakling. He was a demi-god after all. It is outright stated that the Lich King would have destroyed everything on Azeroth if we hadn't stopped him, that includes the Aspects, so no they're not stronger than him or at least not stronger than him AND the scourge. There is a reason Deathwing didn't dare show his face until Arthas was killed.

The Lich King and the Scourge were the greatest threat we've faced so far.

[Aquamonkey]

there is a demon priestess in Magister's Terrace that uses the Light. (She's the one who ressurrected Kael'thas)

She didn't resurrect Kael. He didn't actually die in TK. She merely healed him after we left him busted up on the floor.

The light can be used by evil people if they belive what they're doing is right, so even a demon can in theory use it if they're fanatic about the Legion's mission and actually belive the universe is better off when they're done.

People confuse Warcraft's Light with other RPGs. The Light in Warcraft doesn't depend on any kind of alignment or belief in one's righteousness. All you need is to have the willpower or faith in your own ability to wield the Light. You can fully embrace your evilness, but so long as you think you can, you can do it.

Without spoiling too much, we can tell you that wielding the Light is a matter of having willpower or faith in one's own ability to do it. (AskCDev1)

[Maxilian]

Basically what we're getting to at this point is Archimonde becoming Sephiroth. He can summon a giant meteor to crush the planet. Does this make him super powerful? Hell yes it does.

Personally I think he's stronger than Deathwing.

There are many people stronger than DW, we even fought one guy in a dungeon that have the power of 1000 suns, so... yeah, DW is not the most powerfull being we have faced

[Friendlyimmolation]

First of all, didn't Grom Hellscream kill Cenarius in WC3?? And i'm pretty sure the Lich King could beat Grom 1v1 so saying cenarius is stronger then LK is ridiculous.

Also, when we fight LK in Icecrown citadel, he pretty much pwns the raid and the only reason he gets defeated is because of the *LIGHT* or some nonesense. No member of the burning legion has any control over the LIGHT, so they cannot exploit the LKs weakness.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure the plague controlled by the scourge could easily make a large dent in the burning legions armies...who would then be risen as new scourge soldiers!!!

In the end this can only be determined by knowing exactly what power level the Lich king, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde have...no one really knows for sure.

For example, Arthas was able to defeat Illidan before he put on the Helm of Domination. Then in the instance in the Halls of Reflection when Sylvanas engages the Lich King to give us time to escape, you hear her say that his powers have grown quite a bit since the last time. GOd knows how many souls Froustmourne has enslaved.

On the other hand Archimonde is probably the most bad-a$$ magic user we will ever encounter and we don't know the extent of that power. And Kil'jaeden granted Illidan his power and pretty much created the Lich King, so he's a beast as well. I doubt LK could beat them both at once, but I think he could hold his own against 1 for a time at least.

Archimonde would have obliterated the lich king, Sargereas gave Ilidan his power, and Kil'jaden would have easily killed the lich king as well.