Whats has Happened to Ret pallies?

[Omaski]

I main a ret pally in pve/pvp. As i was searching for RBGs on my dk in the LFG actually came across a team saying,"1500+ 3 heals, 5 dps, RET FREE!!!" why is nobody taking ret pallies anymore? Am i missing anything

[Emophia]

Because nobody likes them.

[facelesssoul]

They're not burst kings like before.

[Rorke]

Because there's no reason to when almost everything Ret brings utility wise can be brought by a Holy Paladin.

[Omaski]

most RBG leaders are looking for dps and a ret surely can bring it...the "support" class niche never has been a thing in pvp esp. in RBGs.

In the RBGs i do get accepted into as ret, im usually top 3 dps out-damaging warriors, dks, & mages. Spriests afflic lock and maybe boomkins are the only specs that out damaging me...sometimes.

[Deleted]

In the RBGs i do get accepted into as ret, im usually top 3 dps out-damaging warriors, dks, & mages. Spriests afflic lock and maybe boomkins are the only specs that out damaging me...sometimes.

Get Recount and filter out the useless damage from your aoe attack and I guess you'll be mostly middle of the pack. Rets outside of wings deal little damage and don't justify bringing them when you can get a holy pal and have the same abilities, but also great healing and you can get an 'op' melee class.

[Jasc]

Get Recount and filter out the useless damage from your aoe attack and I guess you'll be mostly middle of the pack. Rets outside of wings deal little damage and don't justify bringing them when you can get a holy pal and have the same abilities, but also great healing and you can get an 'op' melee class.

Pretty much this. Outside of Wings, ret pally is basically just a bubble factory. Bubbles are great, but in RBGs people have options and when you have the option you take a holy pally instead

[Deleted]

Ret is back to being hated on for RBGs, as per usual. Apparently when there is a reason to bring a ret to an RBG, it's clearly bad design.

Good thing I don't do RBGs cause I'm a retard with no 2k achievement nor banging the leader of a pvp guild in order to get boosted to 2k. I mainly do duels, wpvp and randoms between raids and ret is so so good there, only really good hunters beat me.

[Omaski]

Get Recount and filter out the useless damage from your aoe attack and I guess you'll be mostly middle of the pack. Rets outside of wings deal little damage and don't justify bringing them when you can get a holy pal and have the same abilities, but also great healing and you can get an 'op' melee class.

Im not trolling or anything but a ret using final verdict, Divine Storm AoE hits HARD, i would hardly call it "useless".

And like I said before. yeah our utility is likewise brought by hpallies but you bring a ret for his damage not his utility.

[Deleted]

Im not trolling or anything but a ret using final verdict, Divine Storm AoE hits HARD, i would hardly call it "useless".

Yeah, it is decent damage, but that's the point: If you're not running a spread-pressure/dot comp (which you almost 100% won't do with a ret) you try to kill one target. So you do 20-50k damage to your target, but also to everyone else, including pets in a large radius that only bloats your damage statistic and gets offhealed by aoe heals or self-regeneration. And RBG always have a big zerg, so you're likely to hit upwards of 5 people with it.

[Professor Expert]

They're not burst kings like before.

Not true; the problem is their burst is connected to long CDs and off-CD damage is pathetic...but when they pop wings and holy avenger they'll put out a ton of single-target DPS that if not avoided will probably end you.

Because there's no reason to when almost everything Ret brings utility wise can be brought by a Holy Paladin.

Sad to say this, but pretty much and I can't understand why they'd do this to paladins. They want everyone playing holy, I guess, because a holy spamming denounce with wings up can put out at least as much DPS pressure as a ret can off-CD, and a holy has far more utility.

Rets need their base off-CD damage boosted, plain and simple.

Get Recount and filter out the useless damage from your aoe attack and I guess you'll be mostly middle of the pack. Rets outside of wings deal little damage and don't justify bringing them when you can get a holy pal and have the same abilities, but also great healing and you can get an 'op' melee class.

Pretty much this...and it sucks that they keep messing up the game for people who enjoy playing and sticking with a certain class, rather than following the fotm train.

[Vathius]

Ret is good, but not great.

Warriors and Dks are far better worth healing with their constant heavy dps and better long term survivability they provide.

[PrairieChicken]

Rets were always gods in beginning of the expansion, then Blizzard nerfs them to oblivion for rest of the expansion. Happens every expansion and I expect it to be no different this time.

[Animefreak3K]

Ret's doesn't bringt something special, to take them for an RBG.

Before all these Damagebuffs every Class/Spec got, Ret's were very good AoE-Damge-Dealer in RBG's.
Sadly, many Ret's didn't play this "Style" - they were going the "old way", which means they specced into Holy Avenger and just burst.
Outside this burst, the damage was ok. Then...every class got massibly buffs over the last months.

You can be pretty useful because of damage. Just "spec" into AoE damage. Your singletargt damage will still be ok.

Specc into Divine Purpose, Light's Hammer. Use Seal of Righteousness and not Truth. Use Final Verdict and the DS-Procc correct, do deal a huge amount of AoE-Damage.

Anyways, Rets will still have two problems - the RBG-Leaders and the fact, that we die much faster, than a DK or a Warrior.

And to be honest, you really can't do much against these two problems.

[Deleted]

Spec sacred shield and empowered seals if you have problems surviving. With that you'll be as tough as a dk in blood presence.

[Animefreak3K]

But this doesn't helps you in RBG's, because you don't kill anyone fast enough, or deal a massivly amount of AE-Damage (which is why Blizzard gave FV the DS-Buff and included the T16 Bonus, also a DS-buff;proc).

If you specc into Emp. Seals, what's the reason to bring a Ret, instead of a DK or a Warrior? It's pretty hard to argue anyways, but with Emp. Seals, there's truly on reason to bring a Ret into an RBG Team.

[Thundertom]

Yeah, it is decent damage, but that's the point: If you're not running a spread-pressure/dot comp (which you almost 100% won't do with a ret) you try to kill one target. So you do 20-50k damage to your target, but also to everyone else, including pets in a large radius that only bloats your damage statistic and gets offhealed by aoe heals or self-regeneration. And RBG always have a big zerg, so you're likely to hit upwards of 5 people with it.

This is an excellent explanation. That makes total sense. (Not being sarcastic btw, lol)

[Deleted]

Spec sacred shield and empowered seals if you have problems surviving. With that you'll be as tough as a dk in blood presence.

I don't think you have a clue about rets. First off, with a 2% hp heal every 3 second for 21 seconds you won't suddenly become ultra tanky. Second, ret already is gcd starved, meaning he has to many things he can do with to little time. What do you think will happen if he needs to spend two gcds every 21 seconds to keep up his heal? And third, why would you even bring a ret that deals even less damage and has slightly better survivability?

[Professor Expert]

I don't think you have a clue about rets. First off, with a 2% hp heal every 3 second for 21 seconds you won't suddenly become ultra tanky. Second, ret already is gcd starved, meaning he has to many things he can do with to little time. What do you think will happen if he needs to spend two gcds every 21 seconds to keep up his heal? And third, why would you even bring a ret that deals even less damage and has slightly better survivability?

Ret's direct off-healing is probably best in the game by far of any DPS, so that means you can leave a ret and another DPS to guard a flag or FC while having a healer on offense rather than having the healer sit on D where you're not getting much utility out of the healer.

Rets also have high on-demand burst that is very consistent and has no RNG component...their survivability is not the best but its far from the worst. The problem with threads like these is that they make some assumption that the classes are always going to be played at their full potential when that's rarely the case. I'd rather have a skilled ret on my team than a mediocre DK.

People who are playing a class that isn't regarded as optimal are generally better players than the ones who ride the fotm re-roll train.

[Animefreak3K]

Ret's direct off-healing is probably best in the game by far of any DPS, so that means you can leave a ret and another DPS to guard a flag or FC while having a healer on offense rather than having the healer sit on D where you're not getting much utility out of the healer.

It's not. It's only good, with a Talent (Selfless Healer), which is most effectiv after 3 judgements (which has a 6 sec. cooldown), and if you killed an enemy, that grants you honor or xp.
Outside this, your offheal is the same as your selfheal is - 30k.
Sure, you have some other tools, but BoP cannot be used (and would be dump) on your FC. LoH is diasabled in rated PvP.

Rets also have high on-demand burst that is very consistent and has no RNG component

You still need a critical hit to deal that enormous amount of damage, many people are talking about. And our burst is still easy to counter.

their survivability is not the best but its far from the worst.

Compared to Others, it's one of the worst.
A good player can survive something, but with another class/specc, an average player can survive in the same way.

The problem with threads like these is that they make some assumption that the classes are always going to be played at their full potential when that's rarely the case.

True story, but you forget, that also very good players still have a limit. Not they, but the class/specc will have their limits.
A DK with Support can survive so much longer, and deals more damage, as a ret with support.

I'd rather have a skilled ret on my team than a mediocre DK.

If the DK knows, how to play, there's no reason to take the Ret. Even it the Ret plays much better, the DK will bring more (Grip, surviveability, substaineded damage and burst).

Rets playing with HA (95%) are only worth every 2min. The Ones with DP (~2%) are worth everytime.
That's the difference.