Ret Paladin new t18 bonuses

[Turtletroop]

I got a chubby when I saw the new bonuses. Although from the looks of it, we will be switching to on proc trinkets now instead of on uses to synergize with the AWs. Also, I feel like sanctified wrath and seraphim are going to make a comeback in t18. I like that they didn't make us switch to Empowered seals for more exorcism procs. Also, the thought our seraphim or sanctified wrath bursts will be synced with the legendary ring makes me think paladins will be topping meters again.

Item - Paladin T18 Retribution 2P Bonus Avenging Wrath now has 2 charges.
Item - Paladin T18 Retribution 4P Bonus After using Avenging Wrath, your damage is increased by 5% every 1 sec for 10 sec.

Anybody else have any thoughts?

[Relimash]

makes me think paladins will be topping meters again.

ha. remember you said that

[Turtletroop]

ha. remember you said that

Living on a hope and a prayer....

[TyMcNasty]

Without question on Sanctified Wrath, but unless they change something with how Ret's AE functions I doubt we will ever get away from FW, despite how nasty the burst would be with Seraphim. Maybe swap into it for single target fight, but any other situation I think FV will still be the way to go.

That being said, I doubt we will be top dog, other classes just scale better.

[anaxie]

Or just ignore fv because why try to do aoe when its our main weakness and our strength in t18 is insane st damage and highest burst and longest sustained burst.

Also I wouldn't discount emp seals 15% ap is. Alllllooooot and that is what hammers scale with. Haste and ap buff up before wings gg. Mind you delaying second aw until a mintue in gives better DPS then chaining. That way you can go into wings with full HP and expend the HP at end of wings.

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Without question on Sanctified Wrath, but unless they change something with how Ret's AE functions I doubt we will ever get away from FW, despite how nasty the burst would be with Seraphim. Maybe swap into it for single target fight, but any other situation I think FV will still be the way to go.

That being said, I doubt we will be top dog, other classes just scale better.

Uh we are scaling poorly because of a talent and tier set forcing the class into our weakest setup. Next is our most powerful combo ever.

[Hellfury]

As I said in other thread, comming from a warlock with also 2 charges on the 2min CD(via talent) I can say that the new set bonus isnt mindblowing.

Its nice for certain fights where a burst window has to be done at a "random" time but for tank and spank fights in practicality its only 1 more AW

[anaxie]

Really locks get stacking damage and access to their most devastating attack for thirty seconds every second gcd.

Its hardly comparable

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As I said in other thread, comming from a warlock with also 2 charges on the 2min CD(via talent) I can say that the new set bonus isnt mindblowing.

Its nice for certain fights where a burst window has to be done at a "random" time but for tank and spank fights in practicality its only 1 more AW

One more aw because you are missing how it works entirely.

Its literally 50% uptime if you aren't chaining them which you shouldn't unless you are front loading them for a specific phase

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You go from wings and 1:30 downtime to wings 30sec downtime wings 30 sec downtime wing . Repeat repeat repeat

The synergy with the stacking buff. Sw. And seraphim is so astronomically insane. Never mind it links with rings and is very likely to have your process of choice active at some point in the cycle.

Ret very easily could be the highest st class next patch and highest most viable burn the boss NOW spec in the game. Justified from our non existant aoe next patch.

[Felkor]

50% uptime ?
I think you've misunderstood the Charge mechanics, or I am

Each charge doesn't have a separate cooldown. You will retrieve 1 charge every 2 minutes.
You only will have an extra wing per fight.
You can test with clemency, giving you 1 additionnal charge on the hands to test the behavior, will work the same.

[Meiffert]

You go from wings and 1:30 downtime to wings 30sec downtime wings 30 sec downtime wing . Repeat repeat repeat

This is not how charges in WoW work. The set bonus gives you one extra Avenging Wrath per fight.

[Pickwickman]

One more aw because you are missing how it works entirely.

Its literally 50% uptime if you aren't chaining them which you shouldn't unless you are front loading them for a specific phase

We WISH it would work like that. But it will quite certainly work like the warlock Archimonde's Vengeance talent that just gives you 2 stacks of the cd but only 1 can be on cd at a time, so you only get 1 more AW usage per fight.

double AW uptime would be fucking bonkers as a 2-piece and would make us probably overpowered.

[anaxie]

Derp

It's still more than 1 AW gain

AW + 30 second delay 1minute has passed
AW + 30 second delay 2minute has passed
AW#1 off CD
AW + 30 second delay 1 minute has passed


so first 3 minutes we use 3 AWs vs the 2 we Normally would do.

My math was bad sure but factor in two very very important things

Need to save CDs for say.... P3 Ragnaros burn? Iron Maidens P2? Imperator Mages? Lei Shen with all the downtime?

Have to look over HFC fights but man so many fights where wings is just sitting off CD doing nothing meanwhile we are just rolling our 2nd AW back over in that time. Saving CDs also doesn't hurt us anymore. Because we are just backloading our cannon before we unload everything.

Make no mistake Seraphim + 2 Loaded AWs with stacking % damage. We are hands down the most potent burn class in the entire game if need be.

[Meiffert]

Derp

It's still more than 1 AW gain

AW + 30 second delay 1minute has passed
AW + 30 second delay 2minute has passed
AW#1 off CD
AW + 30 second delay 1 minute has passed


so first 3 minutes we use 3 AWs vs the 2 we Normally would do.

How is 3 AWs instead of 2 more than 1 AW gain? You never gain more than 1 AW assuming you were using them on cooldown before.

My math was bad sure but factor in two very very important things

Need to save CDs for say.... P3 Ragnaros burn? Iron Maidens P2? Imperator Mages? Lei Shen with all the downtime?

Yeah, it was mentioned a couple times in the other thread that the advantage of having 2 charges is the ability to save it for encouter phase or trinket procs without wasting uptime.

[Rawrzillasor]

Meoffert are you simple? That is for three minutes so on say a 6minute fight that's more than one set of extra wings

[Deleted]

Meoffert are you simple? That is for three minutes so on say a 6minute fight that's more than one set of extra wings

On fights that we could use AW on cooldown we get 1 extra use, regardless of duration, so no on a 6minute fight it's not more than 1 extra.

[Hellfury]

Derp

It's still more than 1 AW gain

AW + 30 second delay 1minute has passed
AW + 30 second delay 2minute has passed
AW#1 off CD
AW + 30 second delay 1 minute has passed


so first 3 minutes we use 3 AWs vs the 2 we Normally would do.

My math was bad sure but factor in two very very important things

Need to save CDs for say.... P3 Ragnaros burn? Iron Maidens P2? Imperator Mages? Lei Shen with all the downtime?

Have to look over HFC fights but man so many fights where wings is just sitting off CD doing nothing meanwhile we are just rolling our 2nd AW back over in that time. Saving CDs also doesn't hurt us anymore. Because we are just backloading our cannon before we unload everything.

Make no mistake Seraphim + 2 Loaded AWs with stacking % damage. We are hands down the most potent burn class in the entire game if need be.

You don't know how charges work, and most fights aren't 3min

[Deztru]

They made a spell change with the same build that would fortify the charges having independent cooldowns.

Avenging Wrath Increases all damage and healing caused by 20% for 20 sec. 1 Max Charges. Paladin - Retribution Spec. Instant. 2 min cooldown. recharge.

Initially one charge, 2 min recharge, with 2-set 2 charges with a 2min recharge.

[Deleted]

They made a spell change with the same build that would fortify the charges having independent cooldowns.

Avenging Wrath Increases all damage and healing caused by 20% for 20 sec. 1 Max Charges. Paladin - Retribution Spec. Instant. 2 min cooldown. recharge.

Initially one charge, 2 min recharge, with 2-set 2 charges with a 2min recharge.

Independent charges feels like it would a waaay too strong... we'd be looking at a solid 50% uptime (with SW obviously) with a 1min cycle. Doubt it would make live since it's far too strong for a 2set.

[anaxie]

They made a spell change with the same build that would fortify the charges having independent cooldowns.

Avenging Wrath Increases all damage and healing caused by 20% for 20 sec. 1 Max Charges. Paladin - Retribution Spec. Instant. 2 min cooldown. recharge.

Initially one charge, 2 min recharge, with 2-set 2 charges with a 2min recharge.

oh man its happening.

[Hellfury]

They made a spell change with the same build that would fortify the charges having independent cooldowns.

Avenging Wrath Increases all damage and healing caused by 20% for 20 sec. 1 Max Charges. Paladin - Retribution Spec. Instant. 2 min cooldown. recharge.

Initially one charge, 2 min recharge, with 2-set 2 charges with a 2min recharge.

I think you guys are just getting worked up on this set bonus and not understanding it very well

I dont see where in this. it says 2 charges with independent cooldowns.

The charge system always worked the same way and

Initially one charge, 2 min recharge, with 2-set 2 charges with a 2min recharge.

The red is how every CD works, it just UI doesnt show charges for spells with less than 2, the green is just how spells with 2 charges work, to be independent it would had to finalize it "with 2min recharge individualy" or something like that. I know that sometimes wording on mechanics and spells can be dubious sometimes


But Iam ready to eat my hat in case Iam wrong

[Iyosin]

As an example, look at Chi Brew. The first charge goes on CD the second you use it, the second charge does not go on CD until after the first CD is up. So if you use both charges instantly, it takes 2 minutes to regain both charges. If our 2PC T18 works like this, we'd only see a single extra use of AW per fight. We may build back up to two charges if we are anticipating a burn phase, but it would take 4 minutes to do so. However, as strong as it may seem, I don't necessarily see a problem with them being on independent CD, which would give us twice as many uses during a fight and 50% up-time. Admittedly it is potentially excessively strong when used in conjunction with Seraphim and SW, so that may be a reason they don't do independent CD and stick with the normal method.