Cloning Passenger Pigeons (and other birds)!

[Techno-Druid]

There had been a project in the past few years by a man named Ben Novak to attempt to clone the extinct passenger pigeon, which was wiped out around a hundred years ago. Largely for cheap meat for the poor and to feed slaves, the last pigeon named Martha died in 1914. Novak tends to use Martha's DNA along with many other museum-preserved specimens. If the project is successful, it could pave the way for a mass de-extinction of avian species that were wiped out entirely by the work of man through uncontrolled and constant hunting and poaching.





Like...

Carolina Parakeet

America's only parrot species...




Heath Hen




Great Auk




And of course...

Dodo Bird

[StayTuned]

For what purpose?

[Deleted]

Maybe Jurassic Park can be real one day too?

[Beefsquatch]

For what purpose?

Because science!

[Lolretadin]

Total bait but ill bite.

Reintroduction of species that were wiped out within a very short timeframe by us tends to benefit the environment they left behind. Taking out a species in an ecosystem has adverse affects on everything.

Reintroduction of animals into an ecosystem could be as or more disastrous to the current ecosystem than the initial extinction as to it previously.

[Techno-Druid]

Reintroduction of animals into an ecosystem could be as or more disastrous to the current ecosystem than the initial extinction as to it previously.

...So a species that was hunted to extinction near a hundred years ago that was a keystone species... may be invasive to that very same environment...

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If it's extinct, it should stay extinct.

Nope, if we made it extinct, we should undo the damage that has been done (or at least find a species to replace it in it's ecological role).

[Deleted]

Try to get rid of rats, cats and dogs first otherwise they will get eaten by cats and such.

[Techno-Druid]

Try to get rid of rats, cats and dogs first otherwise they will get eaten by cats and such.

Most of these birds would cope pretty easily with cats or dogs or rats (perhaps not the Dodo, but the Great Auk was largely aquatic and really only inhabited extremely small islands at sea). Besides passenger pigeons, Carolina Parakeets and Heath hens all were preyed on or could've been preyed on by bobcats.

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I don't think we made this one extinct. Did we?

Wait, what are you talking about? You mean the little raptor illustration in the corner? The birds I listed were all specifically killed off by humans (the dodos case also being feral animals).

[Deleted]

Do you think the Dodo could replace the Turkey as thanksgiving dish?

[Techno-Druid]

Do you think the Dodo could replace the Turkey as thanksgiving dish?

Actually the dodo bird's meat was pretty awful taste-wise. A dodo bird is essentially a giant herbivorous pigeon...

[Deleted]

Actually the dodo bird's meat was pretty awful taste-wise. A dodo bird is essentially a giant herbivorous pigeon...

Then we dont need it.

[Themius]

Concerning passenger pigeons, it's said that their numbers used to be so numerous that a flock could cover the sky from anywhere from 20-30 minutes to possibly hours. Leaving everything soiled.



Look at this mountain of carcasses.

[Mihalik]

...So a species that was hunted to extinction near a hundred years ago that was a keystone species... may be invasive to that very same environment...

It is counter-intuitive but very much possible. Eco-systems reorganize themselves after extinction events. The new eco-system could be poorer and less diverse than the previous form of it, but it will create its own balance. Once you reintroduce a species to which absence the eco-system adapted to, you could cause a new even more severe imbalance.

It's a question of multiple factors. Usually reintroduction of a species can be beneficial if the environment haven't changed yet substantially. In those cases the reintroduction of a species can repair the original imbalance.

It's complicated really. But as a rule of thumb, the longer time had past since the disappearance of an animal the more adapted an environment becomes to its absence.

[Techno-Druid]

Concerning passenger pigeons, it's said that their numbers used to be so numerous that a flock could cover the sky from anywhere from 20-30 minutes to possibly hours. Leaving everything soiled.



Look at this mountain of carcasses.

There's also a proposal to bring back the American Chestnut tree and replant them

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It is counter-intuitive but very much possible. Eco-systems reorganize themselves after extinction events. The new eco-system could be poorer and less diverse than the previous form of it, but it will create its own balance. Once you reintroduce a species to which absence the eco-system adapted to, you could cause a new even more severe imbalance.

It's a question of multiple factors. Usually reintroduction of a species can be beneficial if the environment haven't changed yet substantially. In those cases the reintroduction of a species can repair the original imbalance.

It's complicated really. But as a rule of thumb, the longer time had past since the disappearance of an animal the more adapted an environment becomes to its absence.

A hundred years is nowhere near enough time for an ecosystem to properly rebound. Remember, many of Australia's invasive species were introduced more than a hundred years ago and they still cause massive problems (pigs, camels, goats, horses).

[StayTuned]

Total bait but ill bite.

Reintroduction of species that were wiped out within a very short timeframe by us tends to benefit the environment they left behind. Taking out a species in an ecosystem has adverse affects on everything.

They were wiped out how? What purpose does reintroducing a species serve when we managed to wipe it out in a very short time frame? Wiping it out again? Who will control whatever wiped them out in the first place?

[Mihalik]

There's also a proposal to bring back the American Chestnut tree and replant them

American Chestnut is still around. There are few mature specimens left, but the problem is not the extinction of the tree itself, but rather the existence of the Chestnut Blight that kills almost all trees before they could reach maturity.

Currently there is an effort to mix American Chestnuts with genes from the Chinese Chestnuts that are immune to the Blight, transferring the immunity. The idea is that after transferring the immunity the genes would be bred out of the American Chestnut preserving the immunity alone.

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A hundred years is nowhere near enough time for an ecosystem to properly rebound. Remember, many of Australia's invasive species were introduced more than a hundred years ago and they still cause massive problems (pigs, camels, goats, horses).

For many animals, plants or insects 100 years can be anything between 30 to 300 or more generations. Again, it's a lot of shoulda, woulda, coulda, and plans like these would need to be considered very seriously, studied in depth, and reintroduction must be gradual and we must be ready to reverse our own efforts if it appears to backfire.

[Techno-Druid]

American Chestnut is still around. There are few mature specimens left, but the problem is not the extinction of the tree itself, but rather the existence of the Chestnut Blight that kills almost all trees before they could reach maturity.

Currently there is an effort to mix American Chestnuts with genes from the Chinese Chestnuts that are immune to the Blight, transferring the immunity. The idea is that after transferring the immunity the genes would be bred out of the American Chestnut preserving the immunity alone.

Your correct, I meant it's functionally extinct and researchers are trying to crossbreed and/or genetically engineer it to make a comeback within the forests. American chestnuts actually had a lot of uses which could be exploited and not to mention the fact they both passenger pigeons and Carolina parakeets fed on the nuts.

[Mihalik]

They were wiped out how? What purpose does reintroducing a species serve when we managed to wipe it out in a very short time frame? Wiping it out again? Who will control whatever wiped them out in the first place?

Overhunting, habitat destruction or the introduction of invasive species, like rats or rabbits for example that sometimes wrecked absolute havoc on environments.

For example on the Galapagos Islands Tortoises couldn't naturally breed for years and years as rats introduced accidentally would wipe out hatchlings and nests. They would also do the same to most native birds.

In the end Ecuador bombed the entire island with rat poison. While they did harm most of the other animals, after the rats were wiped out, the rest of the environment rebounded almost instantly.

[Techno-Druid]

Overhunting, habitat destruction or the introduction of invasive species, like rats or rabbits for example that sometimes wrecked absolute havoc on environments.

For example on the Galapagos Islands Tortoises couldn't naturally breed for years and years as rats introduced accidentally would wipe out hatchlings and nests. They would also do the same to most native birds.

In the end Ecuador bombed the entire island with rat poison. While they did harm most of the other animals, after the rats were wiped out, the rest of the environment rebounded almost instantly.

Yay, oh, there was a thing a few years ago about ecologist using abandoned pet giant tortoises (not Galapagos, but African) to replace the ecological role of an extinct terrestrial duck species that fed on weeds. The weeds had grown rapidly out of control and most other animals (like goats) wouldn't generally directly feed on the weeds over other plants.

[Deleted]

Yay, oh, there was a thing a few years ago about ecologist using abandoned pet giant tortoises (not Galapagos, but African) to replace the ecological role of an extinct terrestrial duck species that fed on weeds. The weeds had grown rapidly out of control and most other animals (like goats) wouldn't generally directly feed on the weeds over other plants.

I remember the Cane Toad