So, is group loot going to be "garbage" and personal loot "optimal"?

[Ickabob]

Looks like the new Personal Loot changes WILL also apply to LFR
https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...54112765415424

[l33t]

It isn't always better.
If say your raid team just got to a tier boss personal loot is better since everyone needs tier pieces and with personal loot everyone has a shot at winning a tier piece.
Master looter is better if a raid team is trying gear up a specific toon say a tank or a healer.
Also it is better if most already have most of the loot off a boss and again a toon or so needs something.

Finally for progression PL is better because it is quicker with no waiting on rolls.
Thus more time spent on killing bosses than waiting on rolls

Nope, actual loot rolling with ML takes even less time than greed/need. Even when everybody needs everything, raid team just goes ahead and cleans trash while ML decides where the loot goes.
PL could be great when new tier entered for first time if it won't give items to tanks and healers instead dps, which should always be geared in first place, unless an encounter requires some unusual healing activity or additional tank survival, and even in that rare occations it is way better for one dps to run his healer or tank offspec instead of funneling gear into tanks and healers first.

[huth]

Wrong.
If you already have the item or don't need it = wasted drop.

Please, we're not here to discuss semanthics, so take off the tinted glasses and think it through.

Yeah, it's always annoying when the Master Looter has to give an item to the designated disenchanter, isn't it?

[Ballrug]

Yes. Personal loot will be garbage simply due to the fact that it is proven to drop less pieces.

Your belief system causes you to join groups that prefer to gear more slowly.

Please, we're not here to discuss semanthics, so take off the tinted glasses and think it through.

The problem is that you don't understand how PL works, or have a belief that is so strong that you can't understand how PL works, so the only thing that people can discuss meaningfully with you is semantics.

[goblingirl]

I hope so.

Group/Master Loot has been a disaster in combination with the Group Finder. I figured they would get around to doing something about it sooner or later.

[Ballrug]

PL could be great when new tier entered for first time if it won't give items to tanks and healers instead dps, which should always be geared in first place, unless an encounter requires some unusual healing activity or additional tank survival, and even in that rare occations it is way better for one dps to run his healer or tank offspec instead of funneling gear into tanks and healers first.

There's no way to control what kind of pieces group loot gives you though. It only has that advantage over personal loot if the boss in question has a relatively high drop rate for DPS gear (over 70% overall) and all the gear the boss drops is useful to the group.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Personal loot will always have the flaw that sometimes, people who already have everything they need off a boss will get a drop, while someone else who needs several things will get nothing. That's the inherent flaw in PL.

This makes ML preferential in any fair loot situation, but this also means that a lot of people and even guilds are getting away with ninja looting (which Blizzard doesn't see as ninja looting). So to curb the tide of angry ninja reports, they're attempting to make PL MUCH more attractive, in a way that people will feel less inclined to join a group on LFG that is using ML.

There will undoubtedly be more loot, but whether or not it goes to the correct person is still up to question.

[Deleted]

I think WoWs loot system is a flaw in itself. I would replace all those slot machines by poker tables and let the players decide which piece of gear they want to work for.

Bosses would drop currencies. If a boss was more challenging he would drop more currency.

That would make the loot system really predictable for the player. And even way more easy to balance for the devs.

With that system, you only would need two different gear ilevels per tier. While one was obtainable for a lower amount of the currency, and the other was obtainable by a lot of the currency.

The loot system in pvp is way better than blizzards dogmatic idea to place slot machines to pve rewards wherever possible.

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I forgot to add that i think it would have been way more easy to just enforce personal loot for groups that use the group finder. Without any need to buff or nerf the personal loot rate.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I think WoWs loot system is a flaw in itself. I would replace all those slot machines by poker tables and let the players decide which piece of gear they want to work for.

Bosses would drop currencies. If a boss was more challenging he would drop more currency.

That would make the loot system really predictable for the player. And even way more easy to balance for the devs.

With that system, you only would need two different gear ilevels per tier. While one was obtainable for a lower amount of the currency, and the other was obtainable by a lot of the currency.

The loot system in pvp is way better than blizzards dogmatic idea to place slot machines to pve rewards wherever possible.

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I forgot to add that i think it would have been way more easy to just enforce personal loot for groups that use the group finder. Without any need to buff or nerf the personal loot rate.

WoW is a skinner box though. That's why it's so popular. They want to find that balance between both giving constant reward, that good feeling of getting a piece of loot and not burning people out, with not allowing them to get everything they want or just "earning" currency like it's a job. People, whether they believe it or not, keep playing BECAUSE it's a slot machine and not a currency they earn.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461...-addicted.html

Every time "That thing" you wanted drops, your brain explodes with dopamine, and that is what is addicting about WoW. Just farming a raid like you farm a garrison would even turn raiding into a COMPLETE chore. They're trying to think up new ways to give you a chance at getting something you want without it being guaranteed, while balancing that with the ultimate skinner box nemesis: having everything you want and having no incentive to play any more.

[Conscious]

It is not a nerf. Time to stop the Blizzard bashing for no other reason than to bash. Currently, each player has a small chance to receive loot. I have been in personal loot groups with 22-25 players and seen 1 piece of loot drop off a boss. The odds of having too few drops for the raid size is much greater than having a lot of drops. The new system will guarantee a minimum number of drops, and the chances of extra loot dropping buffed.

I was notified of this change about a month ago by a GM, and was told it was specifically intended to address the ninja looting problem in xrealm "Premade Finder" groups.

But you see it is.

Group loot isn't as good as personal loot, thus a nerf.

[Slicer299]

Master Loot and Group Loot will continue to serve the same function that it does now. You will get the same guaranteed number of drops with a bonus % chance for extra drops based on raid size. But the RL/ML can distribute that loot in a way that benefits the group over the individual player. All these changes will actually do is make Personal Loot actually worth it for pugs as a minimum number of items will drop, just like the current GL/ML system uses. Sure the kids who want to reserve half the drops in the instance will still run ML, but you can avoid those groups then just like you can avoid them now.

[Deleted]

WoW is a skinner box though. That's why it's so popular. They want to find that balance between both giving constant reward, that good feeling of getting a piece of loot and not burning people out, with not allowing them to get everything they want or just "earning" currency like it's a job. People, whether they believe it or not, keep playing BECAUSE it's a slot machine and not a currency they earn.

You could drop vanity items from bosses, mounts, special loot that wont affect player power. That would allow blizzard to have both. Character power would be limited to poker tables.

Every time "That thing" you wanted drops, your brain explodes with dopamine, and that is what is addicting about WoW. Just farming a raid like you farm a garrison would even turn raiding into a COMPLETE chore. They're trying to think up new ways to give you a chance at getting something you want without it being guaranteed, while balancing that with the ultimate skinner box nemesis: having everything you want and having no incentive to play any more.

I think this is just a paradigm. I play WoW for 10 years, and no, my brain never "exploded with dopamine" when i got a boss loot. I myself was always way more successfull with gear i could work for. I had the effect you describe when i knew i just would have to play another 5 man dungeon to have my currency complete.. i had something to look forward to. Something, that was predictable. People are happy, when they know they will be rewarded. A slot machine with a very small win chance is also able to frustrate people beyond believe.

I once had a friend in a raiding guild, who probably was the most unlucky guy i ever met. He never got loot from 5 mans, he never had luck in with drops for him. Still he was able to work for gear those days (when valor was still available). He stopped playing due to the fact the game even got more slot machines. That guy, in comparison to your case, had a dopamine undersupply, so the hooray-effects were rare.

I think, character power should be obtainable by poker tables. Poker also is addictive. People want more and more money, thats the reason they play. But it allows you to control how much money you invest or gain. Compared to a slot machine, where its just all up to luck.

To solve the problem with not getting items directly from bosses would be easy: You wont have to watch an NPC to buy your item upgrade, but you could directly get it from a game ui, which even could popup automatically (optional) once you had enough currency to buy an upgrade.

Anything else outside of character power could be slot machine. Boss 2 in wing 3 drops that great mount. Lets hope it will drop for me this time.

Also, blizzard should think about making gameplay rewarding, instead of creating extrinsic rewards for game components. Gameplay should engage players. There are some components, where that doesnt happen.

[Bapestar]

Personal Loot always seemed shitty to me. I made a thread when WOD first dropped about how flawed PL was. Was attacked heavily and now it is being changed. Blizzard finally realized the issues.

[Cthulhu 2020]

You could drop vanity items from bosses, mounts, special loot that wont affect player power. That would allow blizzard to have both. Character power would be limited to poker tables.



I think this is just a paradigm. I play WoW for 10 years, and no, my brain never "exploded with dopamine" when i got a boss loot. I myself was always way more successfull with gear i could work for. I had the effect you describe when i knew i just would have to play another 5 man dungeon to have my currency complete.. i had something to look forward to. Something, that was predictable. People are happy, when they know they will be rewarded. A slot machine with a very small win chance is also able to frustrate people beyond believe.

I once had a friend in a raiding guild, who probably was the most unlucky guy i ever met. He never got loot from 5 mans, he never had luck in with drops for him. Still he was able to work for gear those days (when valor was still available). He stopped playing due to the fact the game even got more slot machines. That guy, in comparison to your case, had a dopamine undersupply, so the hooray-effects were rare.

I think, character power should be obtainable by poker tables. Poker also is addictive. People want more and more money, thats the reason they play. But it allows you to control how much money you invest or gain. Compared to a slot machine, where its just all up to luck.

To solve the problem with not getting items directly from bosses would be easy: You wont have to watch an NPC to buy your item upgrade, but you could directly get it from a game ui, which even could popup automatically (optional) once you had enough currency to buy an upgrade.

Anything else outside of character power could be slot machine. Boss 2 in wing 3 drops that great mount. Lets hope it will drop for me this time.

Also, blizzard should think about making gameplay rewarding, instead of creating extrinsic rewards for game components. Gameplay should engage players. There are some components, where that doesnt happen.

True enough that different people are different. Both drops and working towards something do something for me, so I like both. I think with PL people should be able to select which item they "want" off a boss and get a higher chance than the other items. Mythic excluded.

[Nurvus]

Yeah, it's always annoying when the Master Looter has to give an item to the designated disenchanter, isn't it?

I was answering to his statement that "PL can't result in a wasted drop because it's always for your spec."
I was saying that even if it's for your spec, if you already have it or don't need it, it's a wasted drop.

So tell me, oh wise one - what does Master Looter have to do with my comment about PERSONAL LOOT?

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The problem is that you don't understand how PL works, or have a belief that is so strong that you can't understand how PL works, so the only thing that people can discuss meaningfully with you is semantics.

The only problem here is that you can't distinguish A) "an item appropriate for your spec" from B) "an item appropriate for your spec that you already have or don't need".
Because although PL will ALWAYS give you A), as you gear up that item will have a higher and higher chance to also be a B).

So yes, PL CAN give you a wasted drop.
While that drop may be a waste for you, someone else in your group may need it, and that's where GL has the advantage - because you can trade.
Which is why even with superior drop rate, PL will still be inferior once you reach a certain amount of gear.

So yeah, maybe in your imagination I don't understand PL.
If you want to discuss World of Warcraft, though, let us know.

[Gorgodeus]

I was answering to his statement that "PL can't result in a wasted drop because it's always for your spec."
I was saying that even if it's for your spec, if you already have it or don't need it, it's a wasted drop.

So tell me, oh wise one - what does Master Looter have to do with my comment about PERSONAL LOOT?

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Which is why even with superior drop rate, PL will still be inferior once you reach a certain amount of gear.

PL will not be inferior in regards to the changes being made, and why they are being made. The changes are being made to specifically address ninja looting in the "Premade Group" finder. By buffing PL, they hope more groups will use it and fewer players will want to join ML runs, thereby lowering the number of ninja loot complaints.

[Nurvus]

PL will not be inferior in regards to the changes being made, and why they are being made. The changes are being made to specifically address ninja looting in the "Premade Group" finder. By buffing PL, they hope more groups will use it and fewer players will want to join ML runs, thereby lowering the number of ninja loot complaints.

What's up with replies out of context, today?
I specifically underlined part of my comment...

And yet I'm not complaining about either loot mode.
I think neither mode will be trash.
I'm merely pointing out that PL isn't going to be "super awesome" and GL isn't going to be "super bad" or anything.
They'll both have pros and cons.
People will probably go for PL when they're starting to gear up, and eventually swap to GL once they gear up enough.

[Blufossa]

You mean "never in a hardcore/competitive setting, but maybe in a casual setting"? Plenty of guilds who get through Normal with Heroic as their ultimate goal (or even Normal as the goal) use Personal Loot right now, and they won't stop in the next patch.

This. Most people I know who raid do personal loot because it has a higher (better) chance for upgrades.

[SL1200]

So they're going to convince us to use personal loot by nerfing it? Blizz logic...

[Cthulhu 2020]

So they're going to convince us to use personal loot by nerfing it? Blizz logic...

They said they're increasing the chance to get loot on PL. Currently, it's 20%, equal to GL/ML. The downside to it is really just that an item can be looted by someone who didn't need it, and they not be able to give it to someone who did need it. They're trying to encourage the use of PL in LFG pugs, because the amount of ninja'ing in LFG is stupidly high. My guildmates say that about a quarter of the raids they join are just the ML ninjaing something and kicking everyone instantly.