Assassination: Is it what you want?

[savagerogue]

I am very new to the game joining in mid 5.4 but progressed quickly from noob to descent raider (now 4/10M raid leader)

I began raiding on a frost DK... 3 weeks later I was a rogue and never looked back. I played a mage for my guild at the start of WoD but quickly went back to rogue.

Starting in 5.4 at the low end of the raiding spectrum I was very very fond of combat, found assassination slow and was almost scared of sub due to hearing how it was "so much more difficult than combat and assassination"

However in 6.0 I had to embrace sub and have never looked back adore the spec and everything its about.

Obviously right now on the 6.2 ptr, assassination is very strong but as we know this is due to the interaction between the tier 17 2 set and the archimonde trinket. However getting into sub has meant went I spent a couple of hours on the training dummies as assassination I felt the spec was lafargic and uninteresting. I enjoy the pace of sub getting combo points left right and centre coupled with the pure aoe and interactions of certain abilites from combat.

So in my case I do not want to play assassination, I will if it is best because thats the type of raider I am. Is there anyone else was perhaphs apprihence of playing sub but has learnt to love it in warlords and is not looking forward to going back to assassination? (Disclamer I know a nerf is PROBABLY coming with the interaction however if it stays the strongest spec in some situations I will play it)

Note: This dicussion was sparked by a debate between me and my fellow rogue, who has never liked sub, plays it now but much prefers assassination and I was wondering on the general option of rogues right now

[Berlo]

I recently started playing rogue, having never played the class before, Assassination has been a great starting ground for me and I'm glad it's going to see some buffs in the next raid tier.

[Dendalaus]

I don't care about the play-style differences anymore personally. I just play what's best. The only thing I'll dislike if Mut becomes strong again is the ugly secondaries. I really enjoy having pure multistrike and being basically fine for everything.

[Turil]

Could someone update me please? I just read a blog post on ravenholdt where they did crunch some numbers and said that assassination will stay the "odd-spec-out". Admitedly the blog post is from April.

[savagerogue]

Could someone update me please? I just read a blog post on ravenholdt where they did crunch some numbers and said that assassination will stay the "odd-spec-out". Admitedly the blog post is from April.

Because I am a new poster i can't link but go to the sticky thread "Simulationcraft results for WoD" on this forum for the newest simulations, notice the strength of the skull of war 4x upgarded and the fact the BiS Assassination gear is the shoulders and chest fro tier 17 due to near garanateed crit with Mut and Dispatch because of the the archimonde trinket. This leads to a huge energy gained as from the 2 piece means everytime they crit (ie everytime you press them) you get 7 energy

[Deleted]

Came back to wow after not playing since tbc. Combat is simple and hasnt changed too much so that was easy, didnt like sub at first. But now i love it. I play sub in 9/10 of the mythic fights in BRF and i do good damage and love the spec. Id rather not play assassination because of the same reasons you listed before. I love the fishing for trinket proccs managing your rupture snd find weakness, pooling for proccs and snap shotting snd with mastery weapon enchant, there is none of that with assasination it just feels non responsive and unrewarding to me.

[Mystile]

snap shotting snd with mastery weapon enchant

Thought they got rid of snapshotting before WoD and everything just updates dynamically.

[savagerogue]

I find combat simple on the front but once you get in depth there is a lot hidden under the surface. Such as delaying deep insight with revealing strike, delaying killing spree by getting it back with low combo points and then fishing for weapon, ring or trincket proc by building up to 10 combo points without eviserating and expirmenting with wepaon switches. I find vendetta horrificly boring compared to shadow dance and killing spree or adrenaline rush due to them interacting with the rest of your abilites where as vendetta is a flat damage bonus

[Deleted]

as far as im aware you can snapshot snd with mastery enchant but i may be wrong. Its still in the game for ferals with dot and self buff abilities.

[Virium]

I find combat simple on the front but once you get in depth there is a lot hidden under the surface. Such as delaying deep insight with revealing strike, delaying killing spree by getting it back with low combo points and then fishing for weapon, ring or trincket proc by building up to 10 combo points without eviserating and expirmenting with wepaon switches.

I don't know where you're applying this, but the only time it's worth delaying red buff would be when you need to kill the Gromkar Man at Arms for Thogar. Unless your raid is woefully low on cleave/AoE for absolutely no reason at all, then I can't see how holding red buff helps you or the raid in any way. There is no fight other than Thogar or situation that would merit holding onto your red buff or cooldowns at all for that matter. Holding KS and/or AR for when adds pop out on Beastlord is detrimental to your raid, for instance. Building up 10 combo points while "fishing for procs" is a really big waste, as the 4 set is glitched and makes your anticipation magically disappear when you use Eviscerate. Weapon switches are complicated and don't pay off, so it's highly unlikely that they are worth it in any scenario. Combat is really simple, you're just finding ways to make it overly complicated (and you're probably performing worse as a result).

[Deleted]

Note: This dicussion was sparked by a debate between me and my fellow rogue, who has never liked sub, plays it now but much prefers assassination and I was wondering on the general option of rogues right now

U wont see many experienced rogues liking Assass... its seen as the faceroll mindnumbingly boring spec.

The only guys who like it are the ones who like a basic PvE rotation.

[Dextar]

U wont see many experienced rogues liking Assass... its seen as the faceroll mindnumbingly boring spec.

The only guys who like it are the ones who like a basic PvE rotation.

Boring how? Less buttons and CDs to worry about? There is a line, sub (imo) has always been such a sloppy spec, while it's better now than it has been in the past it still takes away from your raid awareness which is a negative of the spec.

Having a basic and easy rotation gives you a lot more situational awareness which is a huge perk in mythic content.

Personally, I'd consider a return to raiding again if Combat/Sin were competitive with Sub.

[Yeezy]

There is no fight other than Thogar or situation that would merit holding onto your red buff or cooldowns at all for that matter.

This is not true at all.

(1) Mythic Flamebender: this fight revolves entirely around your raid's ability to "one shot" both sets of dog phases. Overall boss DPS doesn't matter whatsoever as you'll never hit the enrage timer. This is a situation where I would hold at yellow insight & on-use trinket and then push into deep insight and use all CD's the dogs spawned. It might also be beneficial to not even use KS and AR on the pull if you know they won't be up for the dog phase. Again, overall boss DPS is completely irrelevant on this fight so sitting on cool downs and holding yellow insight so that it lines up with the important burst phase is what's important.

(2) Mythic Blast Furnace: another situation where sitting on cool downs and yellow insight may prove to be beneficial, depending on your group's strategy. In our guild, we aim for a "one shot" of the 1st and 4th Primal Elementalist. When Phase 2 starts it's very tempering to blow KS and AR to kill the large amount of adds and pad the meters, but doing so means you'll be going into the 1st Elementalist phase with no CD's. I obviously found it very beneficial to sit on yellow insight and cool downs to increase the reliability of being able to one-shot the Elementalists. Getting out of phase 2 quickly by one-shorting as many Elementalists as you can is a huge benefit to the raid, as it limits the number of Heat and overall damage your raid takes and gets you out of this challenging phase more quickly.

So in general, it is not worth sitting on cool downs or waiting for deep insight as a Combat rogue. However, as illustrated above, there are a number of examples where doing so will be beneficial to the raid.

[Artorius]

Boring how? Less buttons and CDs to worry about? There is a line, sub (imo) has always been such a sloppy spec, while it's better now than it has been in the past it still takes away from your raid awareness which is a negative of the spec.

Having a basic and easy rotation gives you a lot more situational awareness which is a huge perk in mythic content.

This a thousand times. Assassination is a great spec to play when you need to pay attention to the raid or is learning a new encounter, you can basically manage all the rotation at your "automatic mode" and use your brain to focus at the boss.

But Assassination at farm? Nah, just plain boring. It's already way too boring after a dozen of wipes when you finally start to do the fight mechanics instinctively with "muscle memory"...

[davesignal]

I like Assassination, because I like energy pooling and a greater emphasis on poison. Not having to spam buttons every GCD is nice; it gives the spec a more methodical feel, versus the frantic feeling of the other two (especially Combat).

[Deleted]

I like Assassination, because I like energy pooling and a greater emphasis on poison. Not having to spam buttons every GCD is nice; it gives the spec a more methodical feel, versus the frantic feeling of the other two (especially Combat).

I fully agree with you.

[Thelxi]

Yes. I love assassination in its current state, and I pray to the Blizzard every night they don't fuck it up like they have done with so many other specs I used to love. Like balance, frost mage and affliction just to name a few.

[Roktha]

I love Assa, I think its the best Spec. At the moment i play Combat/Sub but i hope that with the new patch Assa is back.

[jtstormrage]

Personally this is my favourite spec. Always has been. I love the timing, and loading cp generators with envenom up. I love the execute, multi-dotting. I used to love the strong aoe (but now it is very weak).

Mostly I want diversity, not stuck playing two specs for an entire expansion. In previous expacs the specs have been re-tuned, and I really hope Assassin is top again in 6.2. Ultimately I raid and have to play whatever is best.

[Deleted]

I don't know where you're applying this, but the only time it's worth delaying red buff would be when you need to kill the Gromkar Man at Arms for Thogar. Unless your raid is woefully low on cleave/AoE for absolutely no reason at all, then I can't see how holding red buff helps you or the raid in any way. There is no fight other than Thogar or situation that would merit holding onto your red buff or cooldowns at all for that matter. Holding KS and/or AR for when adds pop out on Beastlord is detrimental to your raid, for instance. Building up 10 combo points while "fishing for procs" is a really big waste, as the 4 set is glitched and makes your anticipation magically disappear when you use Eviscerate. Weapon switches are complicated and don't pay off, so it's highly unlikely that they are worth it in any scenario. Combat is really simple, you're just finding ways to make it overly complicated (and you're probably performing worse as a result).

U wot mate? Its worth holding onto ks Anytime you can get into deep with 9 combo points. And thats in st too. Whereas in cleave i think holding onto ks for deep is worth so much espically if you delay to line up with trinket.

I like Assassination, because I like energy pooling and a greater emphasis on poison. Not having to spam buttons every GCD is nice; it gives the spec a more methodical feel, versus the frantic feeling of the other two (especially Combat).

Again u wot mate? Half of sub is pooling energy and combo points for proccs.