Why are rogues so damn squishy in PVE!?

[Deleted]

Leveling from 88 to 100 was pain in the ass. At those last 2 levels regular mobs would hit very hard and if you had more than 2 on you it was shitsville and no amount of feint and recouperate would sweeten the deal. I was actually unable to tackle some of the strong rares because they hit harder than me and I just had to vanish to escape with my life.

I thought it was a just a leveling thing, but now I'm 100 in full 620 gear (pvp) and the same shit happens. I'm actually avoiding level 100 rare mobs because odds are I may have to run with 10% of my hp. All these tools, they don't do squat, some rares can't be stunned and if you vanish he instantly resets. There was this rare ogron in Nagrand at the ogre arena-town thing and he fucking beat the shit out of me several times without even dropping below 50%. Then I logged my equally geared dk out of spite and killed him easily. All those tools that make people cry in pvp, are worthless against the stronger PVE mobs.

On my dk, warrior, monk or hunter I fucking breeze through whatever, even take 5 or 6 regular mobs and beat them up. Nope, not with a fucking rogue.

[Deleted]

Can't say i've ever had the same problems.
What spec are you using?

[Holycrap1]

rogues are not supposed to sustain direct damage. Use def CDs to survive and burst to kill your enemies quickly

[Deleted]

Can't say i've ever had the same problems.
What spec are you using?

Assassination.

[Tehterokkar]

Rogues are the masters of reducing damage, healing is not their strength. There's a reason why Rogues are highly favourable by very high end guilds to fill Melee spots, they take 40% less damage than other melee + can avoid mechanics with Cheat Death + CoS.

[lokinrond713]

Cuse aoe and running around to avoid shit is so very common and blizz is busy designing mounts to sell you then designing content

[Deleted]

Assassination.

I'd say combat is quite nice for leveling and soloing elites, they have those nice o shit gotta kill fast cd's

[Deleted]

Rogues are the single most durable class in PvE, including all tanks except monk.

[psyquest]

I am sorry but this is a learn to master your rogue thing. I have leveled my rogue 100 just 2 weeks ago. at ilvl 600 and less I soloed all elites in Nagrand. In pve, rogues are THE most durable melee there is.

advice: learn to use your CDs, put weak auras for stuns durations, do not just eat up your energy by spamming abilities, learn to kite mobs, use blind ->bandage too

[Raic]

Internal Bleeding, Evasion, Combat Readiness, Recup (especially with Deadly Momentum glyph), Leeching/Elusiveness, Cloak were all quite useful for me when leveling/soloing, I don't remember having too many issues with survivability.

On a slightly unrelated note, is there a reason why CPs are used up if a target is immune to stuns? It's frustrating to find out a target can't be stunned after wasting 5 CPs.

[jasdasm]

go back in time and level a rogue in cataclysm .... that was a fucking pain.

Glyph of Deadly Momentum is your biggest friend while lvling

And for being 100.. it gets better with Gear

[Deleted]

I leveled 3 rogues at least to level 90 and two of them are 100, one has been my main since Vanilla.
From my own experience, the worst spec for leveling is Combat : it has no burst outside KS and is extremely boring to play on fight that does not last more than 10 seconds.
Assassination is average for leveling : high speed CP generation and Envenom does the final job.

Sub is extremely fun for leveling : it is extremly bursty, the most roguish of the three specs for leveling (a real assassin, much more than the Assassination spec !)
Talents :
- use Subterfuge (to use Garrote + Ambush as an opening sequence).
- use Cloak and Dagger when you are on mob spot and Burst of Speed inside buildings or caves.
- use Dirty Tricks, if you want to play with a dagger and use Backstab after Gouge
Glyphs
- use Deadly momentum : to auto refresh Slice and Dice and Recuperate
- use Hemorrhaging veins to apply the Sanguinay Veins +25% damage debuff
--
After the opener sequence (Garrote + Ambush), use Hemorrhage to build CP and backstab if are using a dagger in main hand and have chosen Dirty Tricks (apply your Rupture and Hemo dots, pull energy, Gouge, wait a little and Backstab just before the end of the weak stun). Slice and Dice should always be up (before opening : use Premeditation + SnD), apply Rupture and Recuperate when possible.
Thanks to this you will destroy normal targets in less than 5 sec and explode Elites within one Shadow dance. You can play this with any weapons.

This still works when gearing level 100 but a rogue is not made to kill packs of mobs, only combat would have the AOE power for that but it would be destroyed within seconds outside Evasion. Rogues are not warriors or DK, they are extremly fragile if you try to play them like a DK or a warrior. In raids, this is the other way round, rogues have the best survival toolkit of all classes (Elusiveness, CS, Evasion, Feint) which is paid extremely hard by having now a low/medium DPS compared to other classes (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7 ).

[Deleted]

rogues are not squishy.

[Deleted]

I actually like the fact that if we pull to many mobs theres a good chance u have might die if u haven't got your shit together , makes far more fun to play than say a blood dk , pull all mobs and aoe them down while spamming death strike , yawn .

[Deleted]

For me i have a simple solution, its on the g button. Feint. Really useful spell. But legit, lvling as a rogue is ez. Go shuriken toss with burst of speed and you kill everything.

[Blayke]

On a slightly unrelated note, is there a reason why CPs are used up if a target is immune to stuns? It's frustrating to find out a target can't be stunned after wasting 5 CPs.

I was wondering if this was ever gonna get brought up. This is a change that was implemented in MoP, and is one of the most annoying and unnecessary nerfs Blizzard has ever hit us with. A big part of the problem is that there is no way to predict beforehand whether a previously unencountered mob can or cannot be stunned. A very general rule of thumb is that little mobs can be stunned, and big ones can't, but there are plenty of exceptions. Bottom line is you spends your cp's and you takes your chances.

Why blizzard thought this was a good idea will forever elude me.

[maddnesskhaz]

Don't confuse end-game PvE with levelling PvE the way some of the "QQ learn2play" posters seem to be. We're A+ for raid level survivability undoubtedly, but much softer when we're levelling and have to actually take direct damage for more than the length of evasion.

Rogues are exceptionally good at surviving in raid-level pve because we're able to reduce damage from most mechanics far more effectively than any other class AND have healers to heal us back up.

For solo'ing during levelling, you can't just facetank the entire zone like a Blood DK can, but we're one of the best classes for chain-pulling 1 or 2 mob pulls (with deadly momentum glyph) and with liberal use of CD's you can survive most accidental AE pulls. Personally I think combat is the most efficient levelling spec because with Blade Flurry + KS / AR you have extremely good burst AE damage, no positional requirement, no real ramp-up time on changing targets, and deadly momentum keeps your SnD & Recuperate rolling nicely.

[Socialhealer]

meanwhile in raids, rogues are out-surviving everyone else.

you can't have it all.

[ethnic]

Feint for days

[mickybrighteyes]

go back in time and level a rogue in cataclysm .... that was a fucking pain.

Glyph of Deadly Momentum is your biggest friend while lvling

And for being 100.. it gets better with Gear

SOOOO MUCH THIS!!!!!!

I personally level as sub now (use to do combat) and then swapped when I realized how sub mastery worked.

that HoT combo finisher? and slice and dice? both affected by mastery?! get stupid mastery proccs and pop those skills and KEEP KILLING SHIT. add in leeching poison to pad your healing and try not to over pull adds. I took shuriken toss and finishing throw for open world farming/leveling and it's silly seeing how fast I can dispatch same level mobs before they reach me (while getting more added healing)