Open World MMO-RTS

[Rubenhak]

Dear Gamers!

Hope you're all having fun today.

I want to collect some feedback from you guys. Consider following MMO real-time strategy game.
Action is taking place in an infinite open world. So there is place for everybody. Gamer can choose a race from about 10 options.
You setup your base, evolve, collect resources, etc. You construct buildings, units, perform upgrades.
You can walk out of your base and meet other players' bases and units. You will be enemies unless you decide to join their alliance group.
Otherwise you may attack to take over the territory. If you succeed the defeated user will loose his buildings, will be given a new base in a different location and will have to rebuild a portion of his original base. Upgrades will be maintained. The game is ongoing. There is no winner or looser unless of course it happens so that one user takes over of entire world.

Please tell me if you would want to play this game?
How harsh is it to loose your base (completely or partially)?
Do you think that eventually somebody will take over the entire world, or you think that it will be balanced because of massive number of users?

Any feedback is strongly appreciated,

Thank you,
Ruben

[General Vezax]

The problem with these kinds of games can usually be summed up with one question.

What happens to my stuff when I log off?

[Rubenhak]

The problem with these kinds of games can usually be summed up with one question.

What happens to my stuff when I log off?

Your units, cannons, as well as allied forces will help in protection when the user is offline.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Your units, cannons, as well as allied forces will help in protection when the user is offline.

So in other words... I can lose all my stuff in a concentrated assault overnight.

Many people (and I mean MANY) would, above all your ideas listed here, not enjoy living in fear of logging off and coming back the next day only to find all their hard work in ruins (yeah, you can say that your defenses will help but ultimately the side with actual players directing an assualt will win). This is why in EVE has lockouts where your base is only vulnerable during certain times of the day (usually set to your regular hours). Even then, people don't like that system because defenders have to constantly come back everyday and look over their shoulders to see if they are under attack, and attackers are forced to get up at two in the morning just because their victim is in another time zone.

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Another problem with having a territorial game like this that continues forever is that ultimately some internet forum group like MMO-C is going to all gang up and take almost everything over, monopolize the economy and new players won't be able to get in without being instantly crushed. This is how it is in EVE; at any given time almost half the galaxy is controlled by some massive alliance that forces new small groups out, regulates the market and no one is able to stand up to them and thus the game stagnates ad no one fights.

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You also said that the world is infinite, and yet the game ends when someone takes over the world. How does one take over a world that stretches infinitely in all directions?

[notanmmmonewbie]

So basically a game with a few similarities to EVE online that is ground based?

[Rubenhak]

First of all, all those are very legit issues and questions I appreciate that you guys raise them!

So in other words... I can lose all my stuff in a concentrated assault overnight.

Many people (and I mean MANY) would, above all your ideas listed here, not enjoy living in fear of logging off and coming back the next day only to find all their hard work in ruins (yeah, you can say that your defenses will help but ultimately the side with actual players directing an assualt will win). This is why in EVE has lockouts where your base is only vulnerable during certain times of the day (usually set to your regular hours). Even then, people don't like that system because defenders have to constantly come back everyday and look over their shoulders to see if they are under attack, and attackers are forced to get up at two in the morning just because their victim is in another time zone.

What if that you would not loose all your stuff even in the case of a strong assault. Lets say you loose some of your resources some of the buildings. Other buildings would be recreated in a safer location. Also, consider an ability to sign a contract with other players/alliances to come for help and protection in case of an attack. This service will cost some game resources and will be paid to the service provider. Something like an AAA insurance. The protection service provider will have a trust rating which would raise or drop based on the promised and actual help provided. Everybody would be able to provide this service. Consumers would decide which service to use pased on the price as well as the trust rating. This would significantly reduce possibility of complete destruction.

Another problem with having a territorial game like this that continues forever is that ultimately some internet forum group like MMO-C is going to all gang up and take almost everything over, monopolize the economy and new players won't be able to get in without being instantly crushed. This is how it is in EVE; at any given time almost half the galaxy is controlled by some massive alliance that forces new small groups out, regulates the market and no one is able to stand up to them and thus the game stagnates ad no one fights.

You also said that the world is infinite, and yet the game ends when someone takes over the world. How does one take over a world that stretches infinitely in all directions?

Alliances will have a hierarchical structure. Gamers can recruit others and would be able to see the maps of the gamer that had recruited them and all recruits below. The lower you are in the recruitment chain the less you see and have access to. The gamer on the top will have access to entire chain. This might provide a need for enormous alliances to break into parts whenever the gamers in the middle of the chain would want to break and build their own alliances in order to get full control, power and make their own decisions independently.

The map would be constantly growing on its own. The rate of growth would depend on multiple factors including number of users.

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So basically a game with a few similarities to EVE online that is ground based?

I'm not very much familiar with EVE Online. I've seen some gameplays and read some articles. I would need to play it a bit to get better feeling what they have achieved and what kind of problems are they facing.

What i have noticed so far that they also have a problem of massive alliances controlling the most of the galaxy. But still it does not stop users playing it. Could you please comment on this.

Thanks.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'm not very much familiar with EVE Online. I've seen some gameplays and read some articles. I would need to play it a bit to get better feeling what they have achieved and what kind of problems are they facing.

What i have noticed so far that they also have a problem of massive alliances controlling the most of the galaxy. But still it does not stop users playing it. Could you please comment on this.

Thanks.

Most players in EVE don't hang out in the free-for-all alliance space; they hang out in the "safe" zones were crime will get your ship blown up (You can still be killed; it's just far, far more unlikely) and do structured PvP in the canon nations. What you propose is chaotic and unstructured.

[Rubenhak]

Most players in EVE don't hang out in the free-for-all alliance space; they hang out in the "safe" zones were crime will get your ship blown up (You can still be killed; it's just far, far more unlikely) and do structured PvP in the canon nations. What you propose is chaotic and unstructured.

Could you please explain the difference of those zones? Why would anyone want to go out of the safe zone if there are chances to get destroyed?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Could you please explain the difference of those zones? Why would anyone want to go out of the safe zone if there are chances to get destroyed?

Because people wanna rule the galaxy and be their own emperors fighting other player run nations (whereas in the canon nations your just some lieutenant), and the best stuff is out there.

People want to stay in the safe zones because they are there for the story and for friends, and don't care about getting the absolute best stuff or ruling their own empires.

[Wildmoon]

People do not like RTS games(and I don't count MOBA as RTS) in this day and age. The whole concept of RTS genre goes against the direction this industry is going. Accessible and rewarding are the trend. If you simplify it too much then you risk destroying the magic of the genre. You can see that from how RTS genre is doing right now. SC2, the most popular and successful of the kind, is nothing compared to something like LoL or Hearthstone. There are some like me and others who absolutely love the genre but I am not in denial.

[Azrile]

There are many games like this out there. Lords of Ultima ( recently closed down) and Stronghold Kingdoms are two that I played in the last few years.

In fact, Stronghold Kingdoms is basically exactly what you described.

As someone mentioned, there are a lot of issues involving ´being online´ and also alliances and recruiting. Time is also an issue, like, how fast do troops move and how fast can you create stuff. If you go pure RTS like WC3 where troops move fast and stuff can be built fast, then people who play all the time will have a huge advantage. In games like Stronghold Kingdoms, it takes many hours, sometimes days for troops to arrive at the castle they are attacking, which lessons the need to be online all the time.

Like many online games, the community ultimately is what makes these types of games suck though. Despite everyone´s thinking.. players do not want to pvp, even in pvp games... except for wolves vs sheep. The best and most experience players will quickly team up and dominate. In both SHK and LoU, maps were usually painted one color within the first few weeks of a new world starting.

Before you even start this game, you need to stop thinking about ´this is how players are going to play it´ and instead look at how players actually do play these type of games. There are a lot of challenges, and the biggest will be how you prevent guilds/alliances from dominating early and turning everyone into sheep. And secondly you must have a good plan in place for dealing with how time passes and what happens to offline players. There is a very fine line between rewarding players from being online, and forcing players to play 24/7 to be competitive.

[Rambofant]

I like the idea, but it's very much like RUST..

[Ashkiman]

if you want to have a popular mmo rts, just take clash of clans and add races and open world exploration with pve elements to it

[notanmmmonewbie]

Could you please explain the difference of those zones? Why would anyone want to go out of the safe zone if there are chances to get destroyed?

In EVE space is broken up into different security zones. The "safe" zones you are still in danger of getting attacked by other players BUT there is an NPC faction of police ships called "Concord" that will come and destroy whoever initiated the attack. I think response time also varies in the different safe zones. Like 1.0 is the highest safe zone and the Concord Police NPCs have the fastest response time. They Concord do not instantly warp in when shots are fired, they take a few seconds to get there. In 0.9 security space you are still in the safe zone but the Concord Police NPC response time is a bit slower (i think). I havent played EVE in a long time so i forget what Sec rating the Concord no longer responds in. I think it might be 0.5 or maybe 0.4 sec space is where Concord Police NPCs stop responding to player on player attacks. Basically when a player decides to attack another player in high security space where they know Concord will show up to kill them, it is an intentional suicide run. They use ships that are expendable and that they can afford to lose but still has the required firepower to take down the target.

As far as why anyone would want to leave the safe zone? risk versus reward. When you get into lower security space asteroid and ice belts have better materials in them. Some materials are only available in lowsec spare too while highsec only drops the most basic materials. NPC pirate ships you encounter in lower security space will be better equipped, have better ships, will have better numbers and will drop better loot. I cant comment on player vs player in low sec because i didnt play EVE for very long and i only hung out in high-mid sec.

[BarelyLegalBear]

People do not like RTS games(and I don't count MOBA as RTS) in this day and age. The whole concept of RTS genre goes against the direction this industry is going. Accessible and rewarding are the trend. If you simplify it too much then you risk destroying the magic of the genre. You can see that from how RTS genre is doing right now. SC2, the most popular and successful of the kind, is nothing compared to something like LoL or Hearthstone. There are some like me and others who absolutely love the genre but I am not in denial.

Fully agree with you, the RTS genre is dying. I've seen quite a few MMORTS games come out and just flop, it simply does not work. As much as I love RTS games, we'll never see a good one again.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Fully agree with you, the RTS genre is dying. I've seen quite a few MMORTS games come out and just flop, it simply does not work. As much as I love RTS games, we'll never see a good one again.

Legacy of the Void later this year.

[mickybrighteyes]

I personally would love to see open world RTS style gameplay in some games. but not as the exclusive thing >.>

like say playing something like eve, planetside, and swtor merged where you can control a bunch of npcs ranging from mook to elite/boss type foes to toss at people.

Sort of like taking a moment to play "nemesis" style of game mode if you understand my meaning.

[Wildmoon]

Legacy of the Void later this year.

Except StarCraft, there's next to nothing from RTS genre that comes close to quality and production value that will come out anytime soon. LotV is also likely going to be the last RTS game from Blizzard. It does not make sense from business perspective to continue to create games that don't generate as much money.

[Coldkil]

I think that RTS and permanent world don't go too well together. You simply cannot have a permanent world where as other said people can setup an attack when you're not online and just destroy your base (can be easily obtained with a coordinated attack); in the same way you cannot make "offline mode" too hard otherwise people would just start to log in very briefly to launch various tasks then logoff immediately to take advantage of a better defense.

If i remeber well ogame was more or less like that with your space fleet and planets as bases, and it was all about loading all your stuff onto cargos and leave planets as empty as possible while overnight your ships would do the trip of the entire universe just to return in the morning and have all your stuff safe (while traveling the ships couldn't be attacked or something on the line).

It would just end as a game of ultimate backstabbing. I don't know how may people would like that (though EVE its a very successful game and the game structure works well, but it's not strictly an RTS).

Would work better if actual combat was istanced - you can either fight or ally with other people (PvP) or invade/search other planets for resources or to fight a bigger menace (PvE) and combat can be focused on RTS. However your base should be on your "home planet" and should be "untouchable", and combat system must be done perfectly since it will be teh focus of the game.

[BarelyLegalBear]

Legacy of the Void later this year.

And? That's the only good RTS that'll be seen this year. I'm also sick of all these sci-fi shitfest RTS games we keep getting, give us more in the fantasy setting. There are many that could be done too. Age of Mythology 2, LOTR BFME 3, Warcraft 4, etc. Those are the ones that came to mind, and if we were to receive another MMORTS, it'd most likely be in the sci-fi category.