Julian Assange on TPP: Only 5 Of 29 Sections Are About "Traditional Trade"

[Deleted]

Link: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...n_economy.html

JULIAN ASSANGE, WIKILEAKS: First of all, it is the largest ever international economic treaty that has ever been negotiated, very considerably larger than NAFTA. It is mostly not about trade, only 5 of the 29 Chapters are about traditional trade.

The others are about regulating the internet, and what information internet service providers have to collect, they have to hand it over to companies under certain circumstances, the regulation of labor conditions, regulating the way you can favor local industry, regulating the hospital, health care system, privatization of hospitals, so essentially every aspect of a modern economy, even banking services are in the TPP.
...
By putting it in a treaty form, there are 14 countries involved, that means it is very hard to overturn, so if there is a desire, a democratic desire to do it on a different path. For example, to introduce more public transport. Then you can't easily change the TPP treaty, because you have to go back to the other nations involved.

Now looking at that example, what if the government or a state government decides it wants to build a hospital somewhere, and there is a private hospital has been erected nearby.

Well the TPP gives the constructor of the private hospital the right to sue the government over the expect loss, the loss in expected future profits. This is an expected future loss, this is not an actual loss that has been sustained, this is a claim about the future.

We know from similar instruments where governments can be sued over free trade treaties, that that is used to construct a chilling effect on environmental and health regulation laws. For example, Togo, Australia, Uruguay are all being sued by tobacco company Phillip Morris to prevent them from introducing health warnings on cigarette packaging
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It is not even an even playing field, lets say you were going to let companies, make it easier for companies to sue governments, maybe that is right, maybe the government is too powerful and companies should have the right to sue them in certain circumstances.

But it is only multinationals that get this right. U.S. companies that operate in the U.S. in relation to investments that happen in the U.S. will not have this right.

TPP negotiation member states are the

• United States
• Canada
• Japan
• Australia
• Singapore
• Mexico
• Malaysia
• Chile
• Peru
• Vietnam
• New Zealand
• Brunei.

[Kasierith]

The United States is a part of a treaty that can infringe on its national sovereignty? I call bullshit to the highest degree.

[Deleted]

The United States is a part of a treaty that can infringe on its national sovereignty? I call bullshit to the highest degree.

I assume you are being sarcastic since that's EXACTLY what the TPP does.... Just in case you are not:

New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/bu...gainst-us.html
Financial Times: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8c253c5c-2...#axzz3br5RAdau
The Economist: http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...ist-explains-1
Washington Times: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...can-interests/
Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...9a9_story.html

[Rumfoord]

The WikiLeaks analysis explains that this lets firms "sue" governments to obtain taxpayer compensation for loss of "expected future profits."

Yeah, the TPP is terrifying. Sucks all of our mainstream media (television at least) only benefits from this, so they have no interest in reporting it.

"[C]ompanies and investors would be empowered to challenge regulations, rules, government actions and court rulings -- federal, state or local -- before tribunals...." And they can collect not just for lost property or seized assets; they can collect if laws or regulations interfere with these giant companies' ability to collect what they claim are "expected future profits."

Sorry, your laws that require us to take more safety precautions have cost us billions, hopefully your taxpayers can cover that!

[Lellybaby]

The United States is a part of a treaty that can infringe on its national sovereignty? I call bullshit to the highest degree.

The US know exactly what they are doing.

This TPP deal is so US multinationals can get around stronger regulated countries than the US.

This treaty is going to be so bad ._.

[Cyberowl]

If they'd cut out the "business can tell you what to do and if not they can sue you for damages" the TPP and TTIP enemies would at the very least half.

[fengosa]

The whole businesses can sue a government for regulatory changes isn't a new thing. It's pretty standard in most international trade agreements and I'm not sure what the opposition to it is.

If you were an investor and Guatemala gave you assurance that they would be financially responsible for changes to their laws and Honduras gave you no such guarantee its pretty obvious where you would want to do business. It makes your country much more viable for foreign businesses and improves your economy far more than whatever you get sued for.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This is what happens when people worship corporations for all the money they've made. This is what happens when you let money run your government. "Free market" is really just short hand for "Free to take over the market".

[Deleted]

The whole businesses can sue a government for regulatory changes isn't a new thing. It's pretty standard in most international trade agreements and I'm not sure what the opposition to it is.

If you were an investor and Guatemala gave you assurance that they would be financially responsible for changes to their laws and Honduras gave you no such guarantee its pretty obvious where you would want to do business. It makes your country much more viable for foreign businesses and improves your economy far more than whatever you get sued for.

Unlike other international trade agreements, you are forgetting the *other* half of TPP and TTIP that makes this so pernicious. Their scope is enormous. It is almost anything but to do with specific trade, as clearly explained above by Assange for TPP.

Take all the the usual problems with Investor-State Dispute Settlement like below:

1. by its nature it is asymmetrical. Neither domestic companies have the same rights and recourse, nor the state
2. foreign companies can sue based on impact of future expected profits
3. since the state can only try to defend itself but never "win" anything (just prevent itself from losing), the converse is not true for foreign companies, this creates an incentive to challenge the state on almost any significant change.

Then increase the effect by a magnitude or more just by scope, let alone anything else...

There are far larger issues of enormous loss of sovereignty, democracy, state-led economic development, (hyper) deregulation and privatization of all types of industries especially core industries such as health, welfare and financial, education, food, environmental, etc., through to lowest common denominator labor standards reforms, labor and health/safety standards, drastic intellectual property changes in many cases, all leading to greater wealth inequality everywhere but especially in poorer countries.

Even things like food/region/geographic labelling, like who has the rights to the word "Champagne" or whether a country like France under TTIP would be allowed or able to retain state support for its small but powerful movie industry when by these treaties it is forced to effectively compete directly with the monster of Hollywood corporations!

All these point to the atrocity of broad brush Investor-State Dispute Settlement as a side-show in the long run.

The irony is that for both TPP and TTIP, while most of the damage would be upfront for all other countries due to dismantling almost everything they have to fit into multinational corporation demands, starting in the medium term and within one worker generation, it would impact the US just as much...

[Caolela]

If enacted, this TPP "trade" treaty will be the final race-to-the-bottom corporate/fascist takeover of the U.S., even worse than NAFTA and the rest. The U.S. will be kaput, and will become little better than a 3rd-world country.

If you think things have gotten worse in the past 15 years or so, you ain't seen nothin' if this thing goes through.

There will be more monopolies, higher prices for drugs and commodities, net neutrality will be gone, even more jobs will be outsourced, we'll be competing with places like Vietnam for 60¢/hr. wages, and there would be a panel of 3 unelected, unaccountable corporate lawyers deciding the fate of any challenges to it.

Why do you think they're trying to hide what's in this thing? Because if the real agenda of it were known it wouldn't pass.

[Stormdash]

The United States is a part of a treaty that can infringe on its national sovereignty? I call bullshit to the highest degree.

Why? The executive branch is run by people who look at US sovereignty and say "I'm just not that into you".

[Wildtree]

The United States is a part of a treaty that can infringe on its national sovereignty? I call bullshit to the highest degree.

While I don't give a shit about what Assange says generally, since I consider him a crook...
That portion about the US, well......
The country is owned by Corporate America, means it's no surprise if laws favor Corporate America largely.

[Independent voter]

If enacted, this TPP "trade" treaty will be the final race-to-the-bottom corporate/fascist takeover of the U.S., even worse than NAFTA and the rest. The U.S. will be kaput, and will become little better than a 3rd-world country.

NAFTA was a net gain. Sure there were some people who lost on both sides but overall it was a huge gain. TPP will do the same, sure some people will lose their jobs but overall it will create a huge jump in the economy.

China is staying out so far but they might join as well. The Chinese don't like some of the provisions that will increase freedom for their citizens and limit corruption.

[Deleted]

didnt this guy rape some girl?

[Caolela]

NAFTA was a net gain. Sure there were some people who lost on both sides but overall it was a huge gain. TPP will do the same, sure some people will lose their jobs but overall it will create a huge jump in the economy.

China is staying out so far but they might join as well. The Chinese don't like some of the provisions that will increase freedom for their citizens and limit corruption.

Horseshit. We've lost 5 mil. manufacturing jobs and 15 mil. other jobs since NAFTA and the Korean treaty. The only ones who "net gained" from it were the multi-national corps. profit margins that did not translate to the average U.S. worker, including middle management.

Wages have been stagnant for the last 15-20 years while corps. are sitting on mountains of cash profits, and instead of investing in expanding in the U.S., they're simply buying back their own stocks which causes those stocks to rise and they profit more, or investing overseas. It's a disaster for the U.S. workforce.

Remember the Clinton-era claims about NAFTA and updated GATT/WTO, etc. that heck, we don't need mfg'ing anymore, we're going to suddenly get all of those "high tech" neato white-collar jobs and kittens? It never happened, except for the short-lived dot com bubble that quickly broke, and what high tech we have now is being outsourced over the net, moved to other countries, or temporary work visas issued for lower-paid foreign workers to come here.

Almost everyone that is not either completely stupid or bought-off by corporate interests is opposed to TPP. It will absolutely wreck what's left of the U.S. economy for the average person.

[Mayhem]

NAFTA was a net gain. Sure there were some people who lost on both sides but overall it was a huge gain. TPP will do the same, sure some people will lose their jobs but overall it will create a huge jump in the economy.

China is staying out so far but they might join as well. The Chinese don't like some of the provisions that will increase freedom for their citizens and limit corruption.

Let´s just forget the people, fuck them! We have a net gain, that´s all that matters. US#1!

[Gumboy]

I can't wait to see what this trade deal will do to the already mortally wounded iron mining operations in the united states.

They already laid off everyone at the closest mine to me; I wonder whats next?

Getting cheaper iron (in extremely dubious ways) from foreign countries while the government looks the other way is how I am personally going to remember this administration.

This was a deathblow to the local economy here, and I'm sure elsewhere that iron mining is done.

It is kind of funny seeing our governor (Whom I greatly like) having to try to rip on this without insulting Obama though :P

[Cthulhu 2020]

I can't wait to see what this trade deal will do to the already mortally wounded iron mining operations in the united states.

They already laid off everyone at the closest mine to me; I wonder whats next?

Getting cheaper iron (in extremely dubious ways) from foreign countries while the government looks the other way is how I am personally going to remember this administration.

This was a deathblow to the local economy here, and I'm sure elsewhere that iron mining is done.

It is kind of funny seeing our governor (Whom I greatly like) having to try to rip on this without insulting Obama though :P

Mining in the US is becoming less and less economically viable because,

1. The EPA regulations which require the mine to not COMPLETELY FUCK UP THE LOCAL ENVIRONMENT and the measures they need to take to prevent such a thing.

2. Recycling is for the most part, cheaper.

3. Extraction and refining processes make mining economically unviable in low quality ores. All of the pure quality ores have been mined out. The Salt Lake copper mine once pulled out a chunk of pure copper the size of a tractor. Now they are down to small veins and refining minerals which contain copper.

Take it from someone who has visited and inspected multiple superfund mining sites, where the mines have ruined rivers, aquifers, and more.

US companies are mining in other countries, because,

1. There are no or little regulations which would require the mine to not COMPLETELY FUCK UP THE LOCAL ENVIRONMENT. So they do it to save on costs, leaving local rural (and sometimes urban) areas with heavy metals and sulfuric acid in their water.

2. Lots of purer ores have yet to be mined in other countries, making them far more economically viable.

Lots of people lost jobs in your areas. It sucks, it truly does. But a our economy has been shifting away from industrial to service, and it's kind of hard to stop that. They'll find jobs in service, or go to other industrial sites.

[Cyberowl]

I can't wait to see what this trade deal will do to the already mortally wounded iron mining operations in the united states.

They already laid off everyone at the closest mine to me; I wonder whats next?

Getting cheaper iron (in extremely dubious ways) from foreign countries while the government looks the other way is how I am personally going to remember this administration.

This was a deathblow to the local economy here, and I'm sure elsewhere that iron mining is done.

It is kind of funny seeing our governor (Whom I greatly like) having to try to rip on this without insulting Obama though :P

The administration killed a bad brand of economy? Too bad...

The administration that kills fracking will be cheered upon, especially by the real locals that will have to deal with the consequences and not the ones that moved there for the oil money.

[AeneasBK]

Its funny (but not haha funny) that I have friends defending the scrapping of the Human Rights Act in the UK in exchange for a "Bill of British Rights" not realising that the only reason the tories want to reword it, is so they can get rid of all the clauses that blocked the TTIP from passing over in the EU. They couldn't give two shits about the small individual cases; there's a fat paycheck at the end of TTIP and they have their eyes on the prize