"I'm taking a break until 6.2" & Mythics

[apples]

the correct answer to your question is invite new players and have the olds one reapp to the raid team when they get back.

not a very difficult question imo.

[kamil84]

You had me until point e), that just sounds like you were not in a very good guild. I leave the loot in my guild to be distributed based off a various amount of information given to us by RCLootCouncil; I do not have any say in loot as GM.

I have tried FFXIV and personally disliked it incredibly, the GCD is huge and makes everything feel sluggish and slow. Your third point on FFXIV is great until you have someone rolling on an item that is a minor upgrade over a person that it is a major upgrade; This is a flawed system and does not help the guild overall.

The graphics are much too anime for my liking and the game feels purposely designed to be played on a console; Each to their own, though.

It is all subjective but in my case FFXIV's combat system is just different, does not mean it is bad. And the guilds at least in my server do mostly what I said.


Another difference is that in FFXIV it is great to pick one from each class, it is a 8 man raid.

In WoW I see the fucking people inviting only other armor-type wearer classes to the raid. For example a warrior would fill the raid up with clothies, leather and mail wearers. Just pathetic.

[MrExcelion]

This might go without saying, but you'll need to replace players taking a break. A lot of the time they don't come back anyway. If you want to give them a spot or not when you come back, that's your thing, but you can't count on them.

[zephid]

It is all subjective but in my case FFXIV's combat system is just different, does not mean it is bad. And the guilds at least in my server do mostly what I said.


Another difference is that in FFXIV it is great to pick one from each class, it is a 8 man raid.

In WoW I see the fucking people inviting only other armor-type wearer classes to the raid. For example a warrior would fill the raid up with clothies, leather and mail wearers. Just pathetic.

Yes that might happen in extremely rare cases, but those rare cases are also PUGs. No real guild does that.

[kamil84]

Yes that might happen in extremely rare cases, but those rare cases are also PUGs. No real guild does that.

I don't know, the game manages to piss me off on every aspect of it.

[Timboslice]

I don't know, the game manages to piss me off on every aspect of it.

Maybe you should look for another game and leave the WoW section..

[Whales96]

Well its a bit narcissistic and selfish to quit and expect a raid spot next tier especially when they quit during progression. Getting rid of them either by leaving the guild or getting new people is fine.

He didn't just do that though, he had a secret officer policy and a loot council that didn't base its decision based on attendance/performance.

[Thage]

Meme of the decade 10/10

When in doubt, blame the player, not the game. I mean, hell, that's what Blizzard's been doing since WoD beta.

[DarthMonk79]

when they come back tell them the guild is taking a break from you and /gkick

Yes, awesome remark. Here's what so many gamers have forgotten over recent years, but even had some back then. If you are in a raiding guild, it is the raid team/guild that matters, NOT YOU. So if you get everything you want/need but there are people in the team still lacking theirs, guess what, you stick around to help out the team. I hate the players/raiders that leave when they got all their goods and then drop ship, all of sudden new raid comes out or new expansion and guess who's back to "help" the team. So I love your remark...... :-)

[Vaelorian]

There a few reasons. Most of them already been mentioned.
- the 20 man cap for Mythic (if you don't know already what this means for the game.... )
- the LFR as a tourist mode. While "true raiders" as people say would still try and raid, a lot of people I used to play Heroic (former Mythic duh) with, just stopped playing high end raiding. Mainly because they could now see the game without being pressured into a schedule. Sure they thought it sucked balls (the experience) but well it was a good way to slowly say goodbye to a game
- LFG as a feature to make pugging easier. While I don't blame this feature as much as you could always create a raidgroup, it has now become so easy to create one. And as such people who are greedy raidleaders will often have silly rules. People who are checking out raiding on a better level then LFR are now influenced by those raidleaders and will be a bit weary of guilds and raidleaders.
- There is nothing worth while to do in game.
- Having done the content more then enough before even stepping into Mythic. We came from one difficulty, then we got two, then we got 3 and then we got 4. While I am sure an actual raider will never set foot into LFR (if he can help it), a lot of guilds will move their groups through NORMAL first and then heroic and then Mythic. When reaching Mythic they are burned out. We saw this aswell when there were just 2 difficulties. Imo people enjoy 1 difficulty (+ hardmodes) the most with perhaps LFR as another path of progression for people with less time etc.

All this leads to decrease in potential recruits. And because we come from a situation where you could choose to have a 10 man guild and a 25 man guild, we have far too many guilds to be sustained by the amount of people willing to raid Mythic.

[Deleted]

My guild has exactly the same, I am one of those people that is just not having fun in MMO's at the moment.
In one week we lost 4 out of our 6 healers.

I came back to help them as they are still friends and rerolled to a shammy healer.
I got geared up in 2 raids and am now one of the main healers.
But due to the fact we only have 4 and only a raid team of 18 now due to ALOT of people leaving.. we cannot raid Mythic.
So we farm Heroic once a week for 3 hours and thats it .

Nothing you can do about it.

[Marrilaife]

Nowadays all guilds who have problems filling the gaps complain about lack of recruits, but they set a bar so high they only want recruits who have same xp and ilvl as their raiders, or higher. When that's the case why would a potential recruit apply to your guild and not 10 other guilds that are similarly 3/10 Mythic or 9/10 heroic or whatever you are at the moment? You won't get recruits jumping towards you left and right unless you're among server top 5, maybe top 10 guilds if very high pop server.

What I noticed sadly is no guild wants to raise and grow their own raiders, they all want them "plug & play" mode, so obviously newbies can only go do lfr or maybe pug some normals, because lack of xp, gear, logs, achievs puts them in a state no guild wants to pick them up and train, while the old crew obviously goes through burn out and attrition due to irl (new job, lack of time), or sheer boredom of the game they played tad too long.

If the raiding community keeps treating newbies like "here is the wall, bang your head against it or maybe try jumping over it, ha ha", then it will keep dwindling, especially in the middle of the ladder (the best will usually survive).

Another difference is that in FFXIV it is great to pick one from each class, it is a 8 man raid.

Obviously it's easier to get 8 people together than 20. But Blizzard wanted to cater to Asian markets where 25m raiding was the preferred form, and pander to their own inability to balance 25/10 man, classes and raid comps and kill off hardcore 10 man raiding. The effects we see. Behemoths of raiding, server first big guilds thrive, while middle of the pack guilds struggle when the tier gets stale. 10 man groups were often tightly knit, friendships were bonded, they often stayed together just for the company, now 30 man "flex" raiding is just a crowd where half the people think they can drop off and no one will notice, and moving from heroic to mythic is a great problem, guilds have too little players, or on the other hand too many but not all of them mythic capable (a.k.a. failers), and then you try to think who you can bench this week. That is not the case of guilds that are 10/10 mythic, but those that are mostly hc with some mythic bosses.

[Deleted]

I would also like to take a break. I play since the US beta and always raided when my account was active, but the current raid design is atrocious. I hate the "everyone always has to move for the sake of moving" design philosophy with a passion. Someone here said raids become more and more arcade style. Maybe I'm getting too old for this shit. Our raid also struggles to fill 20 spots every raid night and I'm the one disc priest so I kinda feel obliged to attend.

[Mikael123]

Keep recruiting and act as if the players on breaks won't return. When 6.2 lands, you can take them back in, if you need them. They can't expect to get a spot, if a replacement was found for them while they were on their break.

[thedingleberry]

Pray blizzard gets their act together and actually provides new content soon or your job as raid leader will continue to get more and more difficult.

[Marrilaife]

I hate the "everyone always has to move for the sake of moving" design philosophy with a passion. Someone here said raids become more and more arcade style. Maybe I'm getting too old for this shit.

Me too, bosses like Hans&Franz and Operator Thogar are just annoying and worse than Blackhand. Generally if the community doesn't nurture fresh blood we'll have more people who quit because they're "too old for this" than people coming to replace them. There always comes that time in life when you realize purple pixels are small consolation for spending 12 to 20 hours per week wiping, and the only thing that can keep you going is social bonds with your group, and the bigger the group the looser the bonds, it starts to feel impersonal and more like a factory than a coop team.

I'd also agree on the fact that having 4 raid difficulties and massive ilvl disparities because of that serves as a big barrier, coupled with lengthy legendary ring grind, newbies, rerolls and people who came back after a break can't rejuvenate raiding scene in heroic and mythic because of huge ilvl gap (no, not everyone can spare hundreds of thousands of gold for 680+ boes and craftables are limited to 3) and lack of legendary ring progress. And if they go to normal after all the time it takes them to gear up they might be bored to redo the same stuff on 2 more difficulties. And guilds aren't really interested in gearing up people, they're paranoid about them quitting the moment they snatch some gear, so we're in this kinda stalemate.

Oh, and people who are willing to take the lengthy gearing progress inevitably contribute to the poor state of raiding scene because they are gonna inevitably guild hop to get geared first in normal, then in hc then go to mythic. So obviously the guilds mid and low on the "food chain" will suffer extra attrition and be upset.

[Ktperry]

Nowadays all guilds who have problems filling the gaps complain about lack of recruits, but they set a bar so high they only want recruits who have same xp and ilvl as their raiders, or higher. When that's the case why would a potential recruit apply to your guild and not 10 other guilds that are similarly 3/10 Mythic or 9/10 heroic or whatever you are at the moment? You won't get recruits jumping towards you left and right unless you're among server top 5, maybe top 10 guilds if very high pop server.

What I noticed sadly is no guild wants to raise and grow their own raiders, they all want them "plug & play" mode, so obviously newbies can only go do lfr or maybe pug some normals, because lack of xp, gear, logs, achievs puts them in a state no guild wants to pick them up and train, while the old crew obviously goes through burn out and attrition due to irl (new job, lack of time), or sheer boredom of the game they played tad too long.

If the raiding community keeps treating newbies like "here is the wall, bang your head against it or maybe try jumping over it, ha ha", then it will keep dwindling, especially in the middle of the ladder (the best will usually survive).

Yes, this is part of the problem. I wnted to get back into raiding, only did LFR in WoD, so i see all guils who doesnt even killed BH on Heroic wanting 680+ iLvl.

The god damn place drops 685iLvl loot, which if i join a pug can clear 9/10 in few hours and be done for the week. Why do i have to deal with pugs to get enough gear, so i can join a guild, do the same clear in 2-4days which i can do in 2-4h?

Issue is, people with 1-2/10M bosses down want to recruit a Mythic ready geared people, this iant happening, what are you offering them? Sure i can understand if you're 9/10M, so they can join you for BH progress etc, but why they swap their 10/10HC guild for 1-2/10M, just to get few more iLvls?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Quitting gets momentum from quitting. Once one leaves than it is easier for that persons friends to leave. Then that guy leaves and his girl leaves with him. Then those 2 peoples friends have less of a reason to play and leave. All of this doesn't mean they don't like the guild. Or like you. But every chip off the stone you take the easier it becomes to quit. The easier it is for them to pack it up and take a break or simply "quit". THEN put the the fact Blizzard is feeding loyal people reasons to quit all the time. No one feels like being treated like a coin purse and the only reason they keep you around is to milk an extra dime out of you. This also helps create the first cycle we talked about. Finally you just have natural turn over where people leave. It happens in all things. But now it is hyper amplified because of the other 2.

[Banzhe]

As a struggling mythic raiding guild, this phrase has been dropped about seven time from our most geared raiders in the guild the last few weeks and I'm not really sure the correct way to deal with this is.

On one hand, you have a friendly, good and geared player sitting on the side-line ready to jump in and help out when 6.2 to comes around and I understand that real life sometimes gets in the way of playing video games.

On the other hand, in order to keep the guild alive I need to recruit players to fill a quickly depleting roster. Do they understand I cannot get a raid together with 15 raiding? What do I do with them when they come back? Straight to the bench? Do they expect a spot in the raid without consequences? If they have 'taken a break' when the tier gets tough why would I want to gear them up in 6.2 for the same thing to happen?

Any other guilds struggling to get numbers because players are kicking up their feet and waiting until next patch? How are you handling them

Assuming they are also among your best players in terms out attendance, output and awareness, be up front with them and let them know that you have no choice but to try and recruit replacements (If the general consensus in the guild is to go for BH Mythic, if not what is the point as gear will be replaced anyway).
Talk to your players and let them know the situation with the people taking a break and the potential following recruitment, perhaps even nights cancelled due to not being enough / the right players, and tell the players who are going on a break, that they are welcome back at 6.2 if circumstances allow it;

Guild still alive, not having found right replacements etc etc.

[Gaidax]

As a struggling mythic raiding guild, this phrase has been dropped about seven time from our most geared raiders in the guild the last few weeks and I'm not really sure the correct way to deal with this is.

On one hand, you have a friendly, good and geared player sitting on the side-line ready to jump in and help out when 6.2 to comes around and I understand that real life sometimes gets in the way of playing video games.

On the other hand, in order to keep the guild alive I need to recruit players to fill a quickly depleting roster. Do they understand I cannot get a raid together with 15 raiding? What do I do with them when they come back? Straight to the bench? Do they expect a spot in the raid without consequences? If they have 'taken a break' when the tier gets tough why would I want to gear them up in 6.2 for the same thing to happen?

Any other guilds struggling to get numbers because players are kicking up their feet and waiting until next patch? How are you handling them

Yeah, our guild is basically dead now, we are like 15 guys who cleared heroic already ten times over. We try to cooperate with some other guild to at least make it 20 players for Mythic once per week, but last two week even 2 guilds combined did not get to the magic 20 number REQUIRED TO DO ANYTHING MEANINGFUL BESIDES shrugging and logging off.

Once 6.2 releases same shit will happen again - we will have a surge of almost 20 players for a week or two and by the time we are ready for Mythic we will again drop to like 15 people attendance... hurr. Not to mention our server is a desert and recruiting any half-decent person is a struggle.

So basically last month it went like this - log in once per week in hopes of getting 20 people... say hi to each other... log off after 15 minutes once we realize we're not getting 20 guys on. And we actually tried to prepare for Mythic before WoD hit by merging two guilds...

I think Blizzard dropped a fucking giant ball with this whole 20 man Mythic shit, it is basically destroying our guild.