What do you think about decriminalizing all drugs, including hard drugs like heroine?

[Draeth]

Problem is rehab for heroin is expensive. Heroin consumers can't hold down jobs. How would they pay for taxes for their rehab? Can you solve this problem without LIBERAL solution?

Conversely, few if any people need rehabilitation for softer drugs, which pads the coffers for the worst abusers of the most addictive drugs. It also doesn't begin to compare in cost to imprisonment, which is incredibly expensive and paid for by taxes already.

And no, no problem can be solved without a LIBERAL solution, because any CHANGE is inherently LIBERAL when the only alternative is CONVERVATIVISM which is MAINTAINING THE STATUS QUO.

[artemishunter1]

Conversely, few if any people need rehabilitation for softer drugs, which pads the coffers for the worst abusers of the most addictive drugs.

And no, no problem can be solved without a LIBERAL solution, because any CHANGE is inherently LIBERAL when the only alternative is CONVERVATIVISM which is MAINTAINING THE STATUS QUO.

Even for soft drugs people WILL need rehab. Simply due to how our body works. Hell, our bodies develop resistance to INSULIN, requiring more and more. The problem is not the drug consumption but the increased dependence on drugs, requiring more and more to maintain homeostasis.
Pretty much every liberal solution involves taxing other people to solve problems that the people getting taxed have no stake in. If there is alternate solution other than taxing non consumers, I am all for it.
I do believe ALL drugs should be legalized, especially now that we have Asians to offset the loss of productivility. The problem is the paying for rehab, since drug consumers themselves won't be able to pay for their rehab. Perhaps, drug insurance? Consumers buys separate one? Keeping the cost down for everyone or would Liberals think it is discrimination?

[Draeth]

..especially now that we have Asians to offset the loss of productivility...

6/10.

You had me, the first post. I thought you actually had no reading comprehension skills and were legitimately a member of the God Squad. You took it too far, here, though. The racism thing is way too overplayed, and people who are really that stupid are conversational nonstarters anyway - there's no talking to that kind of idiot.

[Laila]

Okay. Dismissing the agency designed to enforce, study, and track drugs/drug policy in the states because that is their job is laughable. Sure, take it with a grain of salt if you want, but outright dismissal is horrendously irresponsible, especially since you haven't even looked at the document! Quite frankly, if that is the manner in which you are going to conduct debates, I can't see you being very persuasive to anyone but yourself.

I did look at the document. As I said, it's filled to the brim with intentionally misleading bullshit and outright dishonesty. It has to be, because a legitimate credible argument cannot be made. It doesn't have a significant effect on overall use. It actively makes the drugs themselves more dangerous, both to use and to obtain. The black markets didn't create the laws, the laws created the black markets.


They start of with a list of what they call fucking "myths," which are actually the results of scientific and statistical study, and then "refute" them with purely appeals to emotion.


You linked a giant bucket of horse shit and you're upset when people look it over and walk away instead of diving right in to wallow with you.

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Problem is rehab for heroin is expensive. Heroin consumers can't hold down jobs. How would they pay for taxes for their rehab? Can you solve this problem without LIBERAL solution?

Spending one dollar on rehabilitation results in over eight dollars of benefits to society.


Spending that same dollar on imprisonment and treatment within results in about a dollar and eighty cents of benefits to society.

[Deleted]

I agree with it in theory. Who cares about wealthy bankers getting high on coke?

The problem is drug related crime. Drug cartels, theft to pay for addictions, muggings. Make drugs legal, then severely punish any crime where drugs are a motive.

[breadisfunny]

the part i disagree with is legalizing hard drugs like pcp, meth,crack and other drugs that make users hyper aggressive, violent and paranoid.legalizing those is inviting a disaster. ecstasy i don't really have much problem with it nor with marijauna. heorine and cocaine i'm more for setting up centers to help get people off those drugs than legalizing them.

[Kasierith]

The primary component of America's failure in the war on drugs is based on the involvement of marijuana, which is essentially impossible to lock down because it has such an accessible source, as opposed to, say, meth which took a huge hit when the FDA started hitting hard on PSE distribution from stores. Because of this, the people who have said "well war on drugs failed so we might as well try" aren't really understanding the reason why it has failed.

As for Portugal, its culture and climate are completely different from that of the US, and lacks the systemic poverty in major cities and rural areas that are ultimately the bed of the drug problems in the country.

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I agree with it in theory. Who cares about wealthy bankers getting high on coke?

The problem is drug related crime. Drug cartels, theft to pay for addictions, muggings. Make drugs legal, then severely punish any crime where drugs are a motive.

What people don't really think about is that legalizing drugs encourages trafficking, as opposed to discouraging. See Tajikstan. Country pretty much doesn't give two shits about controlling drug use, and the result is that it is the portal for the entire drug trade from the Middle East into Central Asia and Russia, and as a steady avenue of crime has taken massive hits in numerous areas even if the actual drug problem within it isn't that bad.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

What people don't really think about is that legalizing drugs encourages trafficking, as opposed to discouraging. See Tajikstan. Country pretty much doesn't give two shits about controlling drug use, and the result is that it is the portal for the entire drug trade from the Middle East into Central Asia and Russia, and as a steady avenue of crime has taken massive hits in numerous areas even if the actual drug problem within it isn't that bad.

That's not really applicable to North America though. Tajikstan is still being used to traffic drugs through to get to other countries. Legalizing drugs in US and Canada would not have the same effect.

[Kasierith]

That's not really applicable to North America though. That country is still being used to traffic drugs through to get to other countries. Legalizing drugs in US and Canada would not have the same effect.

And how much does the US seize every year? Talking about border control only, I know that the results of drug busts across the nation aren't truly consolidated.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

And how much does the US seize every year? Talking about border control only, I know that the results of drug busts across the nation aren't truly consolidated.

How much they seize now isn't really important. There's still more on the streets than is ever seized. The war on drugs is a failure because the demand is too great.

[Comatosis]

It looks to me like many people are missing a big point here. Decriminalizing doesn't mean legalizing or being able to sell. It means if you have small amounts of it you won't go to prison, but selling it is still not going to be ok.

[Zoldor]

And police unions, and the prison guard unions.....oh you proly included those in the "cartels"

Like all jobs necessity is key to keeping your job. If there isn't a need for a ton of Prison guards or Police Officers then the market has spoken. Legalize, Tax, use tax dollars to fund public works programs that create jobs that the US government pretends we can't fund while giving hand jobs to treasonous corporations like Lockheed Martin.

[Deleted]

Legal heroine would create a hell on Earth for many. I'm not sure what percentage of the population we would lose to the drug but it would be significant, and it might be your friend or family member.

There's a whole group of people who aren't using heroine today because it's illegal and somewhat difficult to get.

"I don't know the number but it would be a significant number."

"This is my opinion and I don't know but this would happen."

[Deleted]

Just because you make drugs legal it doesn't mean their effects go away. You're opening up society to hard drugs, creating hundreds of thousands of new addicts.

[Conspicuous Cultist]

Just because you make drugs legal it doesn't mean their effects go away. You're opening up society to hard drugs, creating hundreds of thousands of new addicts.

They're grown adults now and can make their own decisions.

[Kasierith]

How much they seize now isn't really important.

"I don't like that they have results because it contradicts my reality, so I'm going to ignore their results."

The "War on drugs" or whatever is broken because of the pot aspect. Not hard drugs.

[Tojara]

Probably should decriminalize and use all of that extra money they saved on that aspect of law enforcement to get people help and run programs to prevent use.

Full legalization is incredibly stupid, but decriminalization is something completely different than legalization which many in this thread don't understand apparently. It's still illegal to sell those drugs or have large amounts (usually that means intent to traffic). All this means is people caught with these drugs that are meant for personal use aren't going to have their lives ruined even more.

It frees up law enforcement and puts their focus more on dealers, which are the people they should be focusing on anyway. Nothing is really gained in society by punishing addicts anyway, it's expensive and puts really stupid restrictions/laws into place that hurt addicts more and in some cases hurt people with actual problems. It's sort of crazy that my diabetic GF has to get a fucking prescription for needle tips to inject insulin because of laws put in place to prevent people from abusing needle tips/needles from drug addicts. Not only does it make it incredibly inconvenient for her, but it makes addicts who are going to be using that drug anyway less safe.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

"I don't like that they have results because it contradicts my reality, so I'm going to ignore their results."

The "War on drugs" or whatever is broken because of the pot aspect. Not hard drugs.

I think you're the one ignoring Reality. Marijuana isn't the only issue at all.

Regarding your original question: Estimates state that maybe 10-15% of heroin and 30% of Cocaine are intercepted by Law Enforcement in the US before it hits the streets. Those "results" are very poor. You'll note those numbers don't factor Marijuana in at all.