Guilds are disbanding at an alarming rate.

[Deleted]

Wasnt case for TBC and WOTLk.

Yes it was, and vanilla too. I knew one guild that 'disbanded' three times before TBC even came out.

[Deleted]

Having the same issue here, the real issue is 'normal' mode. Since you can pug something which can at least be considered 'raiding' (Many don't count LFR as true raiding, hence why it co-existed peacefully with the previous normal and heroic quite well) many people don't see the point in doing higher level difficulties.

Normal is hard enough to require a decent pug, but easy enough that you can't keep a guild going on it, that's its flaw.

On top of this you have the repetitive feel of raids, three difficulties (Not counting LFR) is just way too many if you play for fun and not to chase the carrot that is Ilvl why bother doing heroic when normal is less stressful and doesn't require a set time or group?

This. These kind of things are taking away the need for a guid, when you can solo look for something that would have taken you planning and preparation to complete.

[Deleted]

Gz on counting wrong things. Number of instances is irrelevant if people don't do those at all with lack of incentives. Content in this discussion is new things that players can do in the game. At least garrisons and selfies and treasure hunting was added. Wether or not you enjoy those things is irrelevant, Blizzard has the real data on participation.

That makes literally no sense whatsoever. So dungeons, raids, races, classes etc. aren't content, but selfies are? Wat?

[Deleted]

That makes literally no sense whatsoever. So dungeons, raids, races, classes etc. aren't content, but selfies are? Wat?

I think there was a bit of sarcasm involved

[Lillyth]

Three million people have disappeared from WoW, of course you are noticing it in a variety of guilds.

[Marrilaife]

Not really any guild disbanding on my main server, but on the other one it's nearing 70% of the top 20 guilds that has disbanded. Even a 10/10. Guess a lot actually, deep down, enjoyed raiding with the set group of friends they found over the years.

Thing is, on the big servers like here Silvermoon EU you can't spend 2 hours on trade chat without seeing another of those "freshly transferred guild recruiting" ads. Blizzard did a big mistake stopping connecting servers when they did, they should have done at least double the connections. At the start of expansion it was fine, few months later and 3 mil subs less and smaller servers are dying at accelerated rate while guilds flee to big servers in vain hopes that "recruitment is easier there" (well the competition is fiercer so why that notion is persisting through the years?). Blizzard implementing paid guild transfers can only do the evil laugh now and count $$$.

Also guilds, especially on smaller servers, if they aren't doing mythic, they should really stop thinking a person MUST join the guild to raid with them, meaning they MUST pay the server transfer. Pick some decent and dedicated cross realmers, put them on btag and do cross realm raids, otherwise you'll never be able to compete with cross realm pug finder on small servers. I find it extremely stupid some guilds spam they guild recruitment macros on different realms' trade chats and wow forums. Who sane would pay for a server transfer to your mediocre guild (those spamming the ads are never 10/10 mythic) on semi-dead server so if you fail my trial / disband / server transfer you'll force me to pay even more to transfer again?

I also find half the guilds don't even bother to fill / update their info on wowprogress (raids per week, language of guild, website, classes / roles needed, stuff outdated by 3 months etc.), and I don't mean casual normal raiding guilds, I mean those that do heroics or even some mythics. If you cba with basic recruitment and spamming trade is all you do, don't be surprised if you shrink in size an cease raiding due to lack of members.

[Deleted]

My server is full of RP guilds and they don't seem to be declining. Some disband due to RP reasons but they form into other guilds.

[Sar-]

The ability to easily pug anything heroic and below via the LFG tool removes a lot of the reason to be in a raiding guild.

Great for more mercenary players, but for guilds progressing in heroic it reduces signups as "raiders" see less reason to attend guild runs.

Guilds centred around raiding collapse as a result.

Simple.

[Beoren]

The only thing that kills Raiding team is the fact that many 10man guilds was forced to go 20man and managing a 20man guild is super hard. Also many players prefer the small raid size of 10man. Many guilds that cleared HC weeks ago are stuck because they don't have 20 players to go into Mythic.

I think the blizzard should've reduce the 25Man to 20man and keep the 10man group as it was in Cata/Mop. The loss of a 20man Mythic only is so much higher than the gain which blizzard says is- A. Guilds Ranking . B. More Class specific mechanics in boss fights (the only 1 i've seen in Priests in Mythic BF) and C. Less work balancing the 10man/25man.

The outcome is alot of guilds are disbanding. many players don't like the larger 20man Raid size model. Nearly all of my Raiding friends quit raiding because of this. So either the will bring back 10man Mythic or the raiding groups will dwindle.

[Marrilaife]

My server is full of RP guilds and they don't seem to be declining. Some disband due to RP reasons but they form into other guilds.

AD was always lively, problem is Blizzard refused to merge servers like Darkmoon Faire or Moonglade, I have some alts there that I FCMed from AD back in WotLK due to lack of space, and playing on those servers feels like a struggle. Yes, zones are cross realm so you can still RP if you want, but things like auction house or amount of guilds feels lacking in comparison to Argent Dawn.

[Deleted]

Hey Bashiok, there is people who want to punch you, where are you, put the cheeks, seems like a valid reason too.

I'd even pay money for that.

Three million people have disappeared from WoW, of course you are noticing it in a variety of guilds.

Not just that, Mythic is killing guilds. The percentage of people above 7/10 kills in BRF is somewhere in the below commata percent. Guilds that used to clear heroic well in time during a tier are folding left and right. I have alts in a 10 and a 25 man guild. Both who throughout MoP and before it raided successfully HC and cleared the content with time to spare.

Both guilds have fallen apart, they're effectively dead and they're just a few guilds. So far we have a single guild who cleared 10/10 BR on my server, one or two are at 9/10 and everyone else is basically dead. This is a server that used to have a huge population and had guilds who played in the top 100 for a long long time.

[fixx]

That makes literally no sense whatsoever. So dungeons, raids, races, classes etc. aren't content, but selfies are? Wat?

New things since previous expansion, meaning there are more different types of content available now than before.

[Deleted]

New things since previous expansion, meaning there are more different types of content available now than before.

WoD has the fewest additions, it even outright removed some stuff. Also both the ammount and quality of the things there are are lacking.

[Deleted]

WoD has the fewest additions, it even outright removed some stuff. Also both the ammount and quality of the things there are are lacking.

It removed scenarios and added several new features. WoW has never had more content. What you actually mean is that it has less content that you enjoy, which is something you can certainly argue. But you don't want to do that because you're aware that that's an opinion so you'd rather talk about a quantity because that's a matter of fact, even if entirely incorrect.

[Dukenukem]

The only thing that kills Raiding team is the fact that many 10man guilds was forced to go 20man and managing a 20man guild is super hard.

Its not hard, its different from 10..... in means that it really needs a management. not saying "now we are guild, we raid at X every Y day, be here" and be done with that. Larger guild requires loot management and proper bench because counting that 20 ppl will have 100% attendance is just bordering impossible.
Its a bit more work on start but the reward is very satisfying.

The outcome is alot of guilds are disbanding. many players don't like the larger 20man Raid size model. Nearly all of my Raiding friends quit raiding because of this. So either the will bring back 10man Mythic or the raiding groups will dwindle.

Many people prefer 10 because the never raided large format, except LFR which made it bad for the horrible results it had in MoP. If we transfered from TBC right into this format the outrage wouldnt be anywhere near. If you get (or asemble) a good 20 Myth guild (hint: It starts with making a good 30man HC guild) you would be surprised how many will consider raiding in 20 exciting.

[Deleted]

"Guilds are naturally disbanding" is another bullshit answer by Ion. However I did make a fatal mistake as well undermining the importance of flexibility in raiding as post-evidence shows from community feedback and a couple more youtube videos like the following; Why Is WoW Dying? (The title does not do justice).

I would personally argue though that the future should be 5man and 20man when it comes to Mythic content. I think more emphasis on 5man being competitive in raiding will be healthy and successful as Challenge Modes have shown so far; I would like to think that we are players generally love going from one extreme (5man) to the next (20man). I will never forget my 5man experiences when I started "raiding" because I had so much fun it was unbelievable and definitely more sociable than the 15-20man (you cannot afford to be when you have so many players).

And if they really want to balance 5man, they would have to merge Normal & Heroic; I think it is same to say at this point that we do not need both of them to exist.

- - - Updated - - -

Guilds have disbanded in significant numbers during every tier this game has ever had. The illusion of far more disbanding now is paradoxically because it is so much easier to make a raiding guild. with the flex approach to what was the old normal mode (now heroic), you are able to still have a good raid if a few don't show (unless that 'few' is all your tanks for example) but you don't have to put people on the bench either. Those same heroic guilds then completed the content and decided to go into Mythic. Natural progression, of course, but a totally different type of guild management needed. These guilds have completed heroic without any long term planning to get into mythic, go into mythic and find it all a bit much (even with 2-3 bosses going down under the weight of the item level possible at this point of the tier). But the roster management is completely changed. Now you need people to show up and you need people to be on the bench. A lot of raiders who are really no more than heroic raiders (no offence intended) don't like that arrangement and so don't commit properly as they don't feel the guild is committing to them.

The end result is the guild, rather than just accept that the way it's setup only works for flex raiding, fails rather than adapts. People then add on the names of a few serious progress guilds (some of which always disband but then just reform as a new guild anyway) as proof that guilds are toppling left, right and centre.

Well said; if you are not flavour of the month and expect never to be benched in Mythic then you might as well never enter Mythic and save yourself.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

Its not hard, its different from 10..... in means that it really needs a management. not saying "now we are guild, we raid at X every Y day, be here" and be done with that. Larger guild requires loot management and proper bench because counting that 20 ppl will have 100% attendance is just bordering impossible.
Its a bit more work on start but the reward is very satisfying.

Many people prefer 10 because the never raided large format, except LFR which made it bad for the horrible results it had in MoP. If we transfered from TBC right into this format the outrage wouldnt be anywhere near. If you get (or asemble) a good 20 Myth guild (hint: It starts with making a good 30man HC guild) you would be surprised how many will consider raiding in 20 exciting.

My guild raided ten man in MoP because we could not get 25 people to show up. Not because we had a bad experience in LFR. We made every effort to make 25 work but getting that many people to show up every week is not easy for casual-semi hardcore guilds. Most guilds end up with 10-12 reliable people and a revolving door of scrubs. Eventually turnover just isn't sustainable and that's why so many Mythic guilds are dying. On my realm Stormrage two high end guilds have disbanded. (Blood Runs Cold and Before the Fall).