Should WoW be made more time consuming next expansion.

[Jensxo]

Time consuming doesn't necessarily equal difficulty but i genuinely believe that the game needs/should be played for quite a long time in order to succeed or do everything that is relevant in it.

Why did people love BC - It was new and exciting - Content wasn't actually just churned through within 2 weeks of it's release. There were plenty of raids to do. The fact that 1% of the playerbase saw content but then in the next expansion the sub numbers rose?

Since BC the game has slowly been simplified and made less time consuming for the average player and to me an MMO is all about consumption of time. It shouldn't take me 1 day to get exalted with a reputation.

WOTLK started to slightly lean towards a less time consuming game but Blizzard made it so there were still things in that game that you had to devote a lot of time too in order to be successful in the game.

Cataclysm got it right with heroic dungeons - as much as people complained about heroic dungeons being too hard....if you were good enough you could do them - I tanked them with pugs using the LFD tool and went really well. A lot of the pulls were quite slow and coordinated, especially in stonecore - I think cataclysm would've been better without the LFD tool. The difficulty in the heroic dungeons was spot on.

When something takes a lot of time to do - it makes you want to play the game more in a sense. You want to complete this - it doesn't feel like a chore because it's actually a chore that takes a lot of your time up in your life.

I feel as though right now in these 2 recent expansions...MOP and WOD that gear progression/accessibility to not only raids but everything has just gone through the roof. I don't really think that i need to spend a lot of time in this game anymore to get anything done.

When content becomes more time consuming - blizzard don't feel rushed on the next content because they know most people won't even be finishing the previous patches content.

I understand that the majority of the playerbase is made up of people who have families/jobs - I'm not neccessarily saying that the game should be made harder but time consumption on content needs to be looked at next expansion. This game is an MMO. It's meant to create long last relationships with people in game - but how do you create friendships/socialize when people don't feel the need to log in everyday in order to progress?

Raiding is unbelievably accessible - this needs to be toned down next expansion. Pugging or joining a guild should be the only way to raid. This queueing up system where you don't need to speak to anyone or go over strats with anyone or get on vent/mumble with anyone needs to be gone. That's not what raiding is about - It's the pinnacle of endgame in WoW and Blizzard have made it nothing more than a queue based system.

If you don't have time to join a guild - or raid on certain days - make your own guild and find some friends to raid with in your times.
Back when there was no LFR/HEROIC/NORMAL/MYTHIC - there was just 1 raid 1 difficulty and the size of the raid would vary.

People would have 40 man guilds with casual players just making/joining pugs whenever they could.
People would have small guilds with like 10 people where they only raided for like 4hrs on a friday night and that was it for the week.
People who raided every night for like 2hrs.

The game was a lot more diverse and it is no longer that now in WOD.

[Pull My Finger]

If you still think this even though the whole topic has really been talked to death, then there's really not much to say.

[MoanaLisa]

The question can't really be answered without understanding an average player profile. I'm fairly certain that most people who are likely to answer this and post here regularly do not fit that profile.

For all we know the 'average' player plays two or three days a week for an hour or two on each day with maybe a little more on weekends. Blizzard knows this; we don't.

The game should not be designed with those that post daily on forums as the target audience. We shouldn't be left out either. There should be more things to do that philosophically fill the gap between leveling and organized raiding. Things that require one to go out into the world and actually play the game.

[arandomuser]

wow is TOO time consuming, in terms of having to do 99 levels of sub par levelign content where you can just randomly queu into a dungeon with 5 foreign language speakers and kill a boss and never interact with people, needs to be more of a social experience while leveling

[Jensxo]

The question can't really be answered without understanding an average player profile. I'm fairly certain that most people who are likely to answer this and post here regularly do not fit that profile.

For all we know the 'average' player plays two or three days a week for an hour or two on each day with maybe a little more on weekends. Blizzard knows this; we don't.

The game should not be designed with those that post daily on forums as the target audience. We shouldn't be left out either. There should be more things to do that philosophically fill the gap between leveling and organized raiding. Things that require one to go out into the world and actually play the game.

Screw the average player profile - Blizzard should just release content like they did in BC. The fact that 1% of players saw the content but the game still gained subs the next expansion?

People in MMO's don't know what they want.
We've gotten to the point now when both casuals and hardcore players hate the damn game because of how basic and simple it is.

It's not fair for people who have lots of free time and having nothing to spend it on because the majority of WoWs relevant content can be completed in 1-2hrs.
I want to be able to play this game for a whole day and actually progress further than other people. It's not special snowflake syndrome - It's what every player should strive to become.

Blizzard should be trying to turn the casual playerbase into people who want to play the game for longer but instead they just made the game take less time to play?
They lose their hardcore playerbase and then they'll lose their casual playerbase because once the content is completed and churned through - those players won't resub?

It's a silly model and it just doesn't work for both parties.

[Arrowstormen]

Screw the average player profile - Blizzard should just release content like they did in BC. The fact that 1% of players saw the content but the game still gained subs the next expansion?

People in MMO's don't know what they want.
We've gotten to the point now when both casuals and hardcore players hate the damn game because of how basic and simple it is.

It's not fair for people who have lots of free time and having nothing to spend it on because the majority of WoWs relevant content can be completed in 1-2hrs.
I want to be able to play this game for a whole day and actually progress further than other people. It's not special snowflake syndrome - It's what every player should strive to become.

Blizzard should be trying to turn the casual playerbase into people who want to play the game for longer but instead they just made the game take less time to play?
They lose their hardcore playerbase and then they'll lose their casual playerbase because once the content is completed and churned through - those players won't resub?

It's a silly model and it just doesn't work for both parties.

People should strive to spend their entire day on one game, every day, constantly, to stay relevant? How about you instead start playing some other games with your endless fountains of time?

[Deleted]

Screw the average player profile - Blizzard should just release content like they did in BC. The fact that 1% of players saw the content but the game still gained subs the next expansion?

People in MMO's don't know what they want.
We've gotten to the point now when both casuals and hardcore players hate the damn game because of how basic and simple it is.

It's not fair for people who have lots of free time and having nothing to spend it on because the majority of WoWs relevant content can be completed in 1-2hrs.
I want to be able to play this game for a whole day and actually progress further than other people. It's not special snowflake syndrome - It's what every player should strive to become.

Blizzard should be trying to turn the casual playerbase into people who want to play the game for longer but instead they just made the game take less time to play?
They lose their hardcore playerbase and then they'll lose their casual playerbase because once the content is completed and churned through - those players won't resub?

It's a silly model and it just doesn't work for both parties.

Heh. That's precisely what the special snowflake syndrome is. But really, if you have lots of free time and nothing to spend it on, how about you get a hobby? Or go outside, watch tv, read a book or socialize in real life? Have you tried those?

[Deleted]

Sounds more like the wet dream of a game designer who wants to create dull content thats more a time sink than anything else.

How about no?

[Deleted]

Screw the average player profile - Blizzard should just release content like they did in BC. The fact that 1% of players saw the content but the game still gained subs the next expansion?

it didnt grow because 90% didnt see the content it grew because it was new and hot back then, nowadays, they have to fight for every sub to stay more than a month.

[Jensxo]

Heh. That's precisely what the special snowflake syndrome is. But really, if you have lots of free time and nothing to spend it on, how about you get a hobby? Or go outside, watch tv, read a book or socialize in real life? Have you tried those?

I could say that special snowflake syndrome works both ways.
Casuals constantly complain that they don't have enough time to play the game so the game should cater to them?

Their being special snowflakes. Hard truths cut both ways ser davos.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds more like the wet dream of a game designer who wants to create dull content thats more a time sink than anything else.

How about no?

Who wants to do content that lasts 1 week? Was content in BC dull? Rep grinds took awhile but they pretty much followed the same rep grind that we have today? Except it lasted a lot longer? And people liked the fact that it lasted longer because it incentivised repeat subscriptions.

[grexly75]

it didnt grow because 90% didnt see the content it grew because it was new and hot back then, nowadays, they have to fight for every sub to stay more than a month.

Exactly WoW was the biggest thing since sliced bread back during Vanilla/TBC as there were very few good MMO's then when WoTLK hit the MMO flood started then when Cata hit that flood became a torrent and so on till today.. I think that what the OP forgets and as you said is that Blizz are having a hard time trying to keep what subs they have as players have a hella lot more choice in MMO's now days..

[Jensxo]

Heh. That's precisely what the special snowflake syndrome is. But really, if you have lots of free time and nothing to spend it on, how about you get a hobby? Or go outside, watch tv, read a book or socialize in real life? Have you tried those?

Playing an MMO is a hobby....
Playing an MMO "was" socializing...

The fact that you mention these things just show how you never invested the time to get passionate about this game.

But im chastised because im passionate about a game i grew up playing?
Im a special snowflake because i want the game to be worth playing again?
Im a special snowflake because i think being able to churn through content within a few weeks is bad game design? Ofcourse it's bad game design - theres no incentive to stick around playing the damn game and the whole reason MMO's are successful is because they are "alive"

A game with 7m players where each player plays 1hr a week is completely dead.
A game with 1m players where each players plays 4-5 hrs a day because they are passionate about it and in order to progress in the game you need to spend that time is going to a lot more alive than any other game.

Your logic is stupid - Blizzards game model doesn't incentivise people to stick around playing. People like you who just think of the game as a "game". It's a lot more than that. A lot of people have spent a good chunk of their lives playing this game and you spit in their face because you don't have the same time that they did?

[Deleted]

Who wants to do content that lasts 1 week?

Thats probably better than to play grinds for 10 months.

"Kill a gazillion of Mogs to become exalted with the Mog-haters"

Was content in BC dull? Rep grinds took awhile but they pretty much followed the same rep grind that we have today? Except it lasted a lot longer? And people liked the fact that it lasted longer because it incentivised repeat subscriptions.

No, people did not care about how long it took, as the dungeons were their endgame. Only a very few played raids. Most people still leveled their chars.

At the end, 5 mans those days were what LFR is nowadays.

[Deleted]

Playing an MMO is a hobby....
Playing an MMO "was" socializing...

The fact that you mention these things just show how you never invested the time to get passionate about this game.

But im chastised because im passionate about a game i grew up playing?
Im a special snowflake because i want the game to be worth playing again?
Im a special snowflake because i think being able to churn through content within a few weeks is bad game design? Ofcourse it's bad game design - theres no incentive to stick around playing the damn game and the whole reason MMO's are successful is because they are "alive"

A game with 7m players where each player plays 1hr a week is completely dead.
A game with 1m players where each players plays 4-5 hrs a day because they are passionate about it and in order to progress in the game you need to spend that time is going to a lot more alive than any other game.

Your logic is stupid - Blizzards game model doesn't incentivise people to stick around playing. People like you who just think of the game as a "game". It's a lot more than that. A lot of people have spent a good chunk of their lives playing this game and you spit in their face because you don't have the same time that they did?

lol you really think youre a snowflake, so blizzard should settle down for 1 million players instead of 7 million so you dont feel the game is dead. do you know how much money your wish is costing blizzard? not even a npo would settle for this.

[grexly75]

Time consuming doesn't necessarily equal difficulty but i genuinely believe that the game needs/should be played for quite a long time in order to succeed or do everything that is relevant in it.

Why did people love BC - It was new and exciting - Content wasn't actually just churned through within 2 weeks of it's release. There were plenty of raids to do. The fact that 1% of the playerbase saw content but then in the next expansion the sub numbers rose?

The numbers rose because as you said the game was new and exciting and that there were very few good MMO's at the time, it is no longer new pretty much just about everyone at some point has played the game and there are a lot more choices in MMO's now.. When you have played the game for as long as most people have it starts to get old that and well as earlier there are a hella lot more choices in MMO's now.. The reason WoW did so well was that Blizz released the game at the right time and well you can only ride the rails of success for so long before you run out of steam..

[Deleted]

The *kind* of time consuming matters. Getting 100 thingies from your garrison profession building and gathering mats from all over the world are both time consuming, but the first makes me want to quit while the second is enjoyable. I'd love more BC-style time consumers, but not WoD-style time consumers.

[Zantos]

When something takes a lot of time to do - it makes you want to play the game more in a sense. You want to complete this - it doesn't feel like a chore because it's actually a chore that takes a lot of your time up in your life.

Nope. If the reward at the end of the tunnel is crap or has nothing to do with me, I wont play it. At the same time, if the grind is boring, I wont do it no matter how good the reward is.

.
If you don't have time to join a guild - or raid on certain days - make your own guild and find some friends to raid with in your times.
Back when there was no LFR/HEROIC/NORMAL/MYTHIC - there was just 1 raid 1 difficulty and the size of the raid would vary.

Nope. In wrath, during its peak, there was heroic and normal, 10 and 25. The difficulty went 10N>10heroic/25norma>25heroic. You could Easily pug icc. Easily.

People would have 40 man guilds with casual players just making/joining pugs whenever they could.

We can't even get 20people for mythic. Guilds are dieing left and right. Do you Honestly think people are going to get enough to raid a 40man in this day and age? HA!

The game was a lot more diverse and it is no longer that now in WOD.

And this is where you lose credibility. Not only is this a glorified "get rid of lfr" thread, but you think the game is not diverse. So you suggest we get rid of features such as lfr, which would lessen the diversity.

Now, tell me, what in the world would all these long hours of grinding consist of? What would we be doing that would consume so much time. People do not like long, boring, overly dragged out grind fests for little to no reward. People do not like having to drag new recruits through previous raid tiers just so they can have a working raid roster, that is assuming the new recruit doesn't just leave the guild to go to greener pastures.

The game has moved away from these long grinds and was the most successful, in wrath, when the long grinds were few and far between.

[Jensxo]

lol you really think youre a snowflake, so blizzard should settle down for 1 million players instead of 7 million so you dont feel the game is dead. do you know how much money your wish is costing blizzard? not even a npo would settle for this.

Your telling me you would leave the game immediately if it took more time to play and progress in? Shows how passionate you are for this game.
Good riddance to someone like you.

[zorkuus]

It should be made better. More time consuming doesn't directly translate to better quality. Asian MMO's are very time consuming, and they are mostly crap.

[Deleted]

Shows how passionate you are for this game.

Who cares about passion? Its about having fun in a computer game.

And pure time sinks arent fun.