True raiding..more toxic than LFR?

[Lamortykins]

it is. the heroic and mythic raiders(and top tier pvpers even more so) tend to be insufferable douchebags that think lesser of others and are nothing but a human-shaped sewage outlet.

think lesser of others

human-shaped sewage outlet

oh the irony

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I been in raid where raid lead never rage, it didn't get far, I also been in raid where raid lead rage at raider making mistake and that guild down 10/10 Mythic BRF. If raging progress raid, I believe it is better then the raid that doesn't have a raid lead that rage. Of course I am not encouraging raging pointlessly, rage must have a purpose/reason. I have seen raid leader that rage without specific reason or purpose, that is just simply bad play...

coaches that scream at players are not necessarily good coaches. they are just loud.

[Chirri]

As far as guilds go, it's up to you to determine what kind of guild you're willing to apply to and try to stick around with. If you want a Mythic progression guild at any cost (raging assholes) then that's the experience you're going to get, every time you raid with them. If you want a Mythic progression guild that can manage to keep things focused but reasonable, it'll probably be harder to find but will be worth it once you can manage it.

I'm not sure why you'd only see your choices as Mythic progression or LFR, there's Normal and Heroics in between and I have a hard time imagining a Heroic progression guild would mind having a Mythic geared and experienced raid member with them so long as you don't prick any egos.

I really enjoy raiding with my guild. We've all pretty much just gotten older together over the last 8 years, with very little significant loss of core founding members. We're just doing Heroic difficulty, but that's really the only difficulty we've ever made a point at working through. It's one of those guilds where when loot drops, people keep deferring to someone else. "You need that more than I do," "No, no, I've gotten something already tonight," That said, we're not an affectionate guild. I always feel a bit uncomfortable in affectionate guilds. O_o Friendly is cool, public affection in guild chat just reminds me of chat rooms 20 years ago with people flirting all the time.

[Yuna]

Toxic? Sure, so toxic that we spend 4 hours every week drinking, laughing and trash-talking while faceroll farming BRF with mains and alts.

But yeah, definitly more toxic than random pugs or annonymous lfr groups.

[lunaru]

Its not always going to be sunshine and rainbows, Most guild leaders/officers get fed up with people making the same common mistake

[Deleted]

I been in raid where raid lead never rage, it didn't get far, I also been in raid where raid lead rage at raider making mistake and that guild down 10/10 Mythic BRF. If raging progress raid, I believe it is better then the raid that doesn't have a raid lead that rage. Of course I am not encouraging raging pointlessly, rage must have a purpose/reason. I have seen raid leader that rage without specific reason or purpose, that is just simply bad play...

I'm sorry but rage does not create progression. I raid lead a guild that is all but 10/10 mythic in name (thanks to a 4% wipe on Tuesday) - we raid twice a week and I aim to motivate my players, encourage them and have a good time playing a video game. We treat each other with mutual respect in a non-elitist environment and this is what is needed to progress. This is what every guild should strive towards at any level of raiding. Mistakes will be made sure, some players will not be up to par - fine. There are ways to deal with that outside of a raid.

Toxic environment destroys the raiding experience, we're here to have fun not work a second job.

[Deleted]

Seeing how the toxicity is often related to the amount of fails from individual players that are holding back the group of finishing the encounter. LFR sure wins in the most obscene raging forwarded to random things happening through out raids that have no effect on finishing the instance. It feels like some people join LFR to just yell at people, or screw around.

At least if you're in a guild group you have a choice, who and what kind of players you raid with.

[Seezer]

I raided Heroic SoO through Heroic Garrosh before mythic came out. Did Mythic Highmaul and then all of Heroic BRF. Ever since this expansion came out I've found that every raid guild I've joined is just a completely rage fest, the raid leaders just seem like they have anger issues and it's not even fun to do current content because of elitist players who just bash and rage at other players for messing up. I never thought I'd say this..but I'm actually have more fun running LFR (which I've always hated) than doing progression raiding anymore. Anyone else feel this way? I just can't see any reason to continue taking 2-3 nights a week for 3-4 hours a night listening to other players yell and scream at each other. Progression raiding just seems like how LFR used to feel...TOXIC.

Let's tone the drama down for a second. I think the issue is you. High end raid guilds don't "rage and scream at each other". Because they know what they're doing. You're probably in guilds that aren't really mythic guilds. Be honest, what is your progress? How many guilds have you been in? You find raging assholes across the board. Even with people that don't even raid. People who have little to no experience in actual mythic guilds are the ones who pretend to know them the best.
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it is. the heroic and mythic raiders(and top tier pvpers even more so) tend to be insufferable douchebags that think lesser of others and are nothing but a human-shaped sewage outlet.

Lol. So funny. You're just like the people you're insulting. There are "Insufferable douchebags" in all types of players. No more, no less. But don't let that stop you from being an overly judgmental, massive hypocrite.

[Gilian]

They rage for a reason and that reason is probably partially you. Seeing you require 3+ guilds for three tiers of raiding which means you either left as soon as you got what you wanted or you got kicked. I wouldn't be surprised if you got kicked since you make threads like these.

Try doing an organized team sport. If you don't show up on time or don't help out people are not going to be happy with you either. That's how it works.

[Pull My Finger]

For me, the only really "toxic" social environments in WoW have always been the organized ones.

What's the worst thing that can happen in LFD or LFR? Someone might call you a nasty name. I don't give a fuck. And I don't have to, that's the beauty of it. You can get mobbed/votekicked out of groups for no reason, but how's that any different from premade groups?

Having to marry into this whole guild, team, premade group bullshit is a whole different matter. That's where things can - potentially - get ugly. That's where the whole poopfest of human interaction comes into play, with egos, envy, cliquishness, competition, etc. etc. Suddenly all that crap matters. That's when things can really get "toxic", because you can't just walk away from it. You can, but not without losing your precious "raid slot" or missing out on the premium loot and, uh, glory.

[Binko]

Once you get old enough to have a fair degree of maturity and self-respect you should never accept somebody raging at you, not at work, not at play, not out in public, not in your marriage, pretty much nowhere.

I had a job once at a mid-sized construction company. The owner was basically a rich asshole who raged at pretty much everybody. But not at me because I did good work and as the head estimator my position was very important. But I told my wife that the day would come when he, the boss, would loss it and start raging at me and I'd probably quit. She said go ahead.

One day something got screwed up and a bid didn't get turned in on time. He lost his cool and started raging at me, all kinds of pent up resentments and bile coming out in a fury. After he cooled off I walked into his office and told him I quit. He was stunned since nobody ever called him on his shit. Got another job the next day since this was back in the '80s when the economy was booming and jobs and advancement were not hard to find.

This is a big part of why I don't do organized group content in MMOs.

[theostrichsays]

Pugging has always sucked balls. It has been fairly toxic for a while.
Guild runs only seemed to get toxic in my opinion due to people trying to reach 20, and having to suffer all the bads, and people getting upset that they have to carry 6/18 rather then 1-2/10.

[Pua]

Depends from guild to guild imo.. Toxicity is a part of every online game.. I feel PUGS tend to be more toxic than organized raid groups most of the time.

That’s my view of it, generally, but even the above quote is a generalization.

I’ve been in… Phew, I’ve no idea. Lots of guilds. I’ve been in lots of guilds, across several servers. I’m in a guild now that gave me a chance to raid, sadly ruined by my work schedule. I’ve yet to be in a guild where people consistently raged at each other, over my eight year experience, which makes me feel like it’s not the problem it’s being presented as. I’ve also done pretty much every level of raiding; the buddies who just want to kill some bosses in Wrath, the server-competitive 25-man guild during Cataclysm, a selection of good players who weren’t committed to long nights anymore in Pandaria, and now a similar thing in Warlords.

At the end of the day, LFR and organised raiding are separated by one key fact beyond all others:

LFR is about including people; organised raiding is about excluding people.

Now, I’m not using either term as a pejorative. But at its core, the concept of LFR is about lowering the barrier of entry to its lowest possible point, while organised raiding is about commitment to a group requirement that most people cannot (or will not) meet. The exclusion I’m talking about comes from your class, your ability and your availability – a player needs to tick all three boxes, in most cases, before getting a spot. LFR lets you queue up regardless of all three.

If you’re raiding with douchebags, you’re raiding with douchebags. That’s the only conclusion you can really draw. I was in a normal Highmaul PuG last night that only killed five bosses, but I had a blast with those guys on TeamSpeak and would happily join them again. I tend to run LFR later at night, because the less mature players who tend to rage are tucked up in bed. If you want LFR to be fun, have a few beers and do it some time past eleven – the experience is completely different to the peak, post-dinner, six o’clock spot.

Again, historically, I’ve only really found guild and/or raid management difficult when players simply want different things. Guilds that realise that, and build up knowing it, don’t have problems. Guilds that just try to fill their rosters with warm bodies, well…

You figure it out.

[Syran]

For me, the only really "toxic" social environments in WoW have always been the organized ones.

What's the worst thing that can happen in LFD or LFR? Someone might call you a nasty name. I don't give a fuck. And I don't have to, that's the beauty of it. You can get mobbed/votekicked out of groups for no reason, but how's that any different from premade groups?

Having to marry into this whole guild, team, premade group bullshit is a whole different matter. That's where things can - potentially - get ugly. That's where the whole poopfest of human interaction comes into play, with egos, envy, cliquishness, competition, etc. etc. Suddenly all that crap matters. That's when things can really get "toxic", because you can't just walk away from it. You can, but not without losing your precious "raid slot" or missing out on the premium loot and, uh, glory.

All the drama aside, guilds were (are, or maybe not so much) the pushing force of this game and a wonderful thing if you connect with other members. Just like with everything else valuable, it demands some patience, resposnibility and sacrifice.

All social interactions are potentially "toxic". This game was built around self-moderated communities, it wasn't meant to be a click-to-queue game initially (I can't imagine it to be at least) with next to none player interaction in dungeons and LFR raids.

Personally I'm glad I experienced the game when social interactions (some less enjoyable, most of it great) were present with almost everything you did in this game.

[Summer]

There's all kinds of guilds and all kinds of leaders, I don't yell at my little darlings (I think last night someone said I sometimes squeak at them though) and would never like to be in a guild where that was a thing while others thrive in more aggressive environments. Each to their own, just find a guild that works for you

[Leih]

As a raid leader I prefer passive-aggressive smilies to convey my disappointment rather than rage.

[Jarob22]

it is. the heroic and mythic raiders(and top tier pvpers even more so) tend to be insufferable douchebags that think lesser of others and are nothing but a human-shaped sewage outlet.

This is clearly bait but whatever. Maybe you should try raiding with decent people? Our guild is a mythic raiding guild and none of us are "unsufferable douchebags" - we all have fun, help each other to get better and progress at the same time. Strange how that works huh?

Maybe...just maybe...if all the people you've tried to play with seem insufferable douchebags...you're the douchebag?

[Zelendria]

The only reason LFR has little toxicity is because it's so ridiculously easy nobody needs to say a word from joining to leaving.

[Sliske]

1. Western society has a certain amount of typical attitudes
2. These attitudes do not care if you're playing WoW, GW2 or Tennis
3. In these attitudes, generally everyone is 'okay'. Then there are nice people and on the other extreme there are dick heads
4. Most people in every single guild are just 'okay' people, i.e, they don't care. They just want to raid and shut up. Then there are the nice few and the dickheads
5. LFR and Mythic Raiding are exactly the same in this sense. So is literally every other game and every aspect of gaming and pretty much every aspect of Western Society.

Vast majority of people: Couldn't give a shit, just want to do what they want to do. Minorities = Nice people, dickheads.

Sick of this "<insert game, website, whatever> is so toxic now!" crap.

[Khovan]

unfortunately the toxicity in LFR is usually aimed either AT the tanks or the tanks at each other.

[Deleted]

Sadly I have to very much agree with the OP.

I have been playing this game since late TBC, and I started raiding since Wotlk. And it is very noticeable, how has the raiding community and the raiding atmosphere changed for the worse.

The ever increasing difficulty of heroic/now mythic raids (compare Naxx 25m with BRF mythic) has led to massively more toxic and elitist behaviour among "top raiders" who feel they are some sort of superior beings because they are able to kill mythic pixels.

Since MoP I have been in 3 top heroic/mythic guilds, and I haven't made any new friends there, and I was rather happy when raid was over, and I could log off, or to relog to my "secret alt" who is in a casual leveling guild.

Raiding guilds all seem to be filled with toxic teenagers with too many unspent testosterones, who keep saying "lel", "kappa", "rekt" etc... Who aren't interested at all in the game's story, lore, characters... (why the fuck do they play an RPG?) Who only care about e-peen dps, about ranks, logs, simcraft etc

In the past, these toxic elitists were mostly contained in the PvP part of the game, where they rating-bashed and class/specc-bashed each other, but now they have widely spread to PVe too.