[Megathread] Mass Effect Andromeda

[Elim Garak]

My assumption was that it would take longer to cooldown than to eject the thermal clips, that was the whole lore explanation for why the thermal clips even came to be.

Cooldown is not an issue. The difference cannot be huge anyway.
The issue is it changes your tactics during combat.
As I said with ME1 weapon you don't need to look for ammo pick ups, when your weapon overheats (if you let it overheat that is, because smart use allows for never overheating it) - you just wait it out.

With thermal clips - you reload but then eventually you run out of clips. You have to switch weapon or pick up a clip which might be some distance away. It's harder to play with thermal clips (not that it's hard or anything, just harder)

[Endus]

Cooldown is not an issue. The difference cannot be huge anyway.
The issue is it changes your tactics during combat.
As I said with ME1 weapon you don't need to look for ammo pick ups, when your weapon overheats (if you let it overheat that is, because smart use allows for never overheating it) - you just wait it out.

With thermal clips - you reload but then eventually you run out of clips. You have to switch weapon or pick up a clip which might be some distance away. It's harder to play with thermal clips (not that it's hard or anything, just harder)

Having played both ME2 and ME3 through as both sniper and vanguard archetypes, I can't recall any case where I ran out of thermal clips. *Running around for ammo was fairly minimal, other than with Vanguard, where I was less "running around for ammo" and more "chasing enemies all over the map and grabbing ammo by consequence".

If I'd been playing a biotic or tech focused archetype, I imagine I'd have been focusing even less on weapon firing.

[Elim Garak]

Have you ever mentioned your significant other to anyone, ever? Ever talked about how a date went with friends? That's discussing your sexuality in real life conversations.

If in-game character has a significant other or goes on dates with someone else - they are clearly not romanceable. So try to use proper real life analogies. Not to mention that speaking about one's SO or a date has nothing to do with sexuality it's kinda irrelevant and only present due to the use of sex-based words of a gendered language - that is unavoidable - sexuality is not being the topic though.

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Having played both ME2 and ME3 through as both sniper and vanguard archetypes, I can't recall any case where I ran out of thermal clips.

Oh well, and since the sample size of one is sufficient to make precise enough extrapolations we can conclude that no one can recall that.

[Endus]

If in-game character has a significant other or goes on dates with someone else - they are clearly not romanceable.

Has ever had literally ANY date or romantic relationship in their entire history, of any kind whatsoever. Not just their current paramour.

Not to mention that speaking about one's SO or a date has nothing to do with sexuality it's kinda irrelevant and only present due to the use of sex-based words of a gendered language - that is unavoidable - sexuality is not being the topic though.

It's exactly to do with sexuality. Who you choose to date is an expression of that sexual orientation. If you're a guy and you only date and are interested in other guys, then you're gay. Talking about the stupid shit your first boyfriend did while commisserating with a friend pretty clearly is an expression of that. Hell, this is WHY people closet themselves, because talking about ANY of this stuff reveals that orientation.

Oh well, and since the sample size of one is sufficient to make precise enough extrapolations we can conclude that no one can recall that.

You were making assertions that you had to spend a ton of time hunting for thermal clips. I pointed out that I didn't, meaning you're talking about your own experience, not the universal experience. ME2 and 3 were balanced around the thermal clips; there were plenty in every fight if you didn't spray ammo pointlessly everywhere for no reason.

[nekobaka]

Only issue I had with thermal clips was a lore one along with a number of weapons describing the use of ammo which is somehow unlimited.

First off we still do not know what the weapon modding system looks like. Going for the thermal clipless mod could be in the place of another mod. Cool downs will still be a factor and an important factor for weapon focused classes and the use of high damage weapons. As mentioned earlier the availability of thermal clips is a factor as well. In ME3 single player the availability of thermal clips was rarely an issue due to thermal clips dropping from grunts and little time spent huddled down. Thermal clips became an issue in multiplayer for defending a point objectives depending on map and point location. For ability focused classes however the issue was not as big.

Thermal clipless weapons fall in this catch 22 of being beneficial for ability focused classes who can let the weapon cool down while at the same time those classes are using less ammo. The M-7 Lancer and Collector SMG from ME3 are two good examples of how non-gimmicky thermal clipless weapons work.

[I Push Buttons]

Cooldown is not an issue. The difference cannot be huge anyway.
The issue is it changes your tactics during combat.
As I said with ME1 weapon you don't need to look for ammo pick ups, when your weapon overheats (if you let it overheat that is, because smart use allows for never overheating it) - you just wait it out.

With thermal clips - you reload but then eventually you run out of clips. You have to switch weapon or pick up a clip which might be some distance away. It's harder to play with thermal clips (not that it's hard or anything, just harder)

1. And? More challenge should result in potentially more damage. That's assuming it even is a challenge, which given ME2/3, it won't be.

2. You argument only makes sense if they have done absolutely nothing to balance between thermal clips and heat sinks, if they have made heat sinks have absolutely no disadvantage in crafting (via the "Vintage Heat Sink" taking the place of another potential component), etc. I am simply assuming that none of that is the case, because like you say, it would make no sense to not use it then.

To me it seems very obvious they will balance around that fact... I don't think they just went "Hey lets make an option to have infinite ammo with absolutely no downside whatsoever!"

[Elim Garak]

Has ever had literally ANY date or romantic relationship in their entire history, of any kind whatsoever. Not just their current paramour.

There are gender neutral words to discuss those.

It's exactly to do with sexuality.

Only if you want it to be about sexuality. It doesn't need to.

You were making assertions that you had to spend a ton of time hunting for thermal clips.

I did not say anything about "tons" or "hunting" and considering that enemies drop clips on death your Vanguard experience is even less relative - just like the biotic one. Because clearly this is a topic about weapons and ammo. So classes that don't need weapons or stand on thermal clips - do not count.

1. And? More challenge should result in potentially more damage.

It's not about the damage, duh. It's about gameplay. How many times do I need to repeat it? It's not a number crunching issue. What ever the numbers you will run out of ammo and that will affect your gameplay. While with ME1 system, it won't. Clearly they will balance both systems to deal the same damage per second that's not even a question here.

[I Push Buttons]

It's not about the damage, duh. It's about gameplay. How many times do I need to repeat it? It's not a number crunching issue. What ever the numbers you will run out of ammo and that will affect your gameplay. While with ME1 system, it won't. Clearly they will balance both systems to deal the same damage per second that's not even a question here.

Ok your original argument was the the ME1 system automatically wins because "efficiency"... I argued no it doesn't because they will make the other system better to compensate so it will, at the very least be equivalent, if not better.

And you keep going back to... "NO INFINITE AMMO BETTER STOP TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE!"

[Elim Garak]

Ok your original argument was the the ME1 system automatically wins because "efficiency"...

Of course it's efficiency.

With ME1 system you are not limited by ammo. You can use any weapon at your disposal as many times as you want whenever the situation calls for it.

With Thermal clips - you are limited by ammo, some weapons more than others and you have to be mindful about the usage of said weapons.

[Deleted]

Of course it's efficiency.

With ME1 system you are not limited by ammo. You can use any weapon at your disposal as many times as you want whenever the situation calls for it.

With Thermal clips - you are limited by ammo, some weapons more than others and you have to be mindful about the usage of said weapons.

With heat sink you have to stop firing every 2 seconds. With thermal clip you have to run out of cover for ammo every 10 seconds, but you would probably run out anyway to go to another cover depending on your "class" and weapons.

And you could probably add another upgrade in place of the vintage heat sink, which will probably all about thermal clip efficiency, like reload speed, capacity or somesuch.

I never really liked the heatsink mechanic anyway.

[Endus]

There are gender neutral words to discuss those.

Not naturally, no, particularly not if the protagonist ever meets or knows any of those past relationships.

Sexual orientation is a core part of one's identity. It's artificial to avoid it.

I did not say anything about "tons" or "hunting" and considering that enemies drop clips on death your Vanguard experience is even less relative - just like the biotic one. Because clearly this is a topic about weapons and ammo. So classes that don't need weapons or stand on thermal clips - do not count.

So you've tossed out Vanguard, you're tossing out biotic-focused characters (and I presume tech-based ones, for the same reasons), so that's Adepts and Engineers and their combo, Sentinels. Which leaves us with Soldiers and Infiltrators. And Infiltrators don't need clips that much, precisely because they're snipers, and should be picking and choosing targets carefully.

So you're really complaining about one particular class, as a maybe.

It's not about the damage, duh. It's about gameplay. How many times do I need to repeat it? It's not a number crunching issue. What ever the numbers you will run out of ammo and that will affect your gameplay. While with ME1 system, it won't. Clearly they will balance both systems to deal the same damage per second that's not even a question here.

You have not demonstrated that running out of ammo is inevitable. Plenty of us got through ME2 and 3 without doing so. The game's balanced around the existence of thermal clips; running out of ammo means you're doing something wrong.

[nekobaka]

Yes, the initial DPS will end up being the same with both thermal clips and no thermal clips due to modding a weapon. The sustained DPS on the other hand will take a hit in thermal clipless weapons. The M-7 Lancer is not shit BTW. It outclassed most AR as long as its cooldown was not an issue. The collector SMG also had good stats along with its high accuracy for mid-long range head shots with the hurricane relegated to more short range engagements.

Once again we also do not know if the thermal clipless mod will take the spot of a useful mod like armor piercing or reduced weight or what ever else the devs cook up. Going thermal clipless is going to have its trade offs the least of which is sustained DPS. They will however excel in cases where ammo is scarce which unless Bioware is going to make thermal clips scarce is not going to be as valuable.

It is great to have options. Expecting to run around with a high DPS weapon like a Harrier and expecting no downsides however is dreaming.

[rhorle]

Sexuality is not deep. You seem to be confused. Sexuality is the most shallow thing about any character. Unless said character is a 60 y/o master hooker.Sexuality only answers one question - can you romance that character or not. Once that's cleared up - it's irrelevant. The depth begins.

How can a character have past relationships if their sexuality is only defined at the moment a player tries to romance them? How can those relationships or views shape how they behave in situations if it only exists when you make a romance attempt. That is the difference between shallow and depth. You are stating that sexuality can only be shallow and never have any depth. Which is wrong.

If a character is to have any depth then why, how, and who they romance all need to be aligned with the rest of their character. It would make zero sense for a homophobic character to suddenly be bi, or gay, just because the player character wants to romance them. That is just one example of how sexuality relates to depth. Or another would be how a character who has been hurt in the past in abusive relationships responds to currently being romanced by a gender (or in general). A truly deep character incorporates their sexuality. A shallow character treats as you say it must be yes/no then irrelevant.

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It's not about the damage, duh. It's about gameplay. How many times do I need to repeat it? It's not a number crunching issue. What ever the numbers you will run out of ammo and that will affect your gameplay. While with ME1 system, it won't. Clearly they will balance both systems to deal the same damage per second that's not even a question here.

But with a heat sink you will also run out of the ability to fire for X seconds. It will effect your game play as well. Remember to that they have shown that Andromeda has some changing of abilities on the fly to meet certain situations. That means that running out of ammo might not be that big of an issue if you can change on the fly to a more weapon-less build.

[Nazrark]

If I am not mistaken. The RoF was a lot higher for clip weapons over non clip ones. That or I might be thinking of the slow firing Geth weapons.

[AetherMcLoud]

God I haven't been this hyped for a game in AGES.

Please don't disappoint Bioware. Looking at you, ultra-generic Inquisition open world "quests".

[Dhrizzle]

It is just as dumb. But rarely does does a token straight character need to be inserted into a game. Bioware is doing it less now a days because of the backlash but say during Origins they made characters able to be romanced by either gender just because they could. They didn't include a back story for why they were. Some times it didn't even really fit the other parts of that characters back story.

You seem to be misunderstanding the point for your usually PC crap. No one is saying that it is odd to have gay characters in ME (well a few posters might but not the one you are quoting). It is odd to make a character non-straight just to make them non-straight. To not give them any supporting story or lore to back it up. Of course none of the characters you bring up were to pander because Bioware did it the right way.

I find it odd to think that a non-straight character needs a story or some lore to back up their non-straightness. Why can't a person just be gay because they're attracted to people of the same sex without there being some big deal that needs to be explored?

Look at Steve in ME3 for example, there's no big story that explains or justifies him being gay, he just happens to be a man who was married to another man and is open to a relationship with a male player character.

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That's a made up issue. When I play a game and choose to romance a character - it either responds in kind or turns me down. Being turned down in a video game is asinine unless it's a flirt tactic. If a character responds in kind - it's not because of my powers of turning people into any sexuality - I assume that they just swing my way. That's it. no powers involved other than the power of good game design.

If in another walkthrough I choose different sex and try to romance the same character - it's a brand new game. Any experiences from the previous walkthrough are null and void.

I take a note on good design though. Not shitting on my experience by limiting my romance options based on which sex I choose for my character - deserves a medal.

In fact the best game with romances will be the one that will have ALL the token characters (white male/female, black male/female, Asian male/female, Latino male/female, whatever male/female) in the pool of romanceable characters and make them all be BI. And of course allow player to create any kind of character for themselves.

Kind of like Schroedinger's Sexuality where the cats always live (metaphorically.) Until you make a pass at a character their sexuality is indeterminable, but once you do it always goes in your favour (because it's a video game.) So rather than everyone in the setting being bi, everyone in the setting has an unknown sexuality but the ones you hit on always turn out hetero/homo depending on the gender of your character.

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For everyone complaining about thermal clips:



Link.

That's good, I always thought the overheat mechanic was one of ME's more unique approaches and was puzzled why they would remove it for ME2.

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If in-game character has a significant other or goes on dates with someone else - they are clearly not romanceable. So try to use proper real life analogies. Not to mention that speaking about one's SO or a date has nothing to do with sexuality it's kinda irrelevant and only present due to the use of sex-based words of a gendered language - that is unavoidable - sexuality is not being the topic though.

I was going to say the same thing, but then I thought of Steve Cortez in ME3 who's husband's death plays a significant role in how you interact with them.

[nekobaka]

http://bsn.boards.net/thread/3649/vi...crollTo=243446

To those who have asked: There is indeed an in-lore answer to how you manage to acquire thermal clips (and medigel, for that matter) while exploring decidedly non-human environments.

That's all I'll say for now.

So at least lore wise it does not look like Bioware will make thermal clips scarce. I dont expect players will be constantly hunting for thermal clips unless they are rocking a harrier which would rapidly heat up anyways with a "Vintage Heat Sink".

[rhorle]

I find it odd to think that a non-straight character needs a story or some lore to back up their non-straightness. Why can't a person just be gay because they're attracted to people of the same sex without there being some big deal that needs to be explored? Look at Steve in ME3 for example, there's no big story that explains or justifies him being gay, he just happens to be a man who was married to another man and is open to a relationship with a male player character.

Steve is an example of a gay character that has supporting lore for being gay. He isn't just gay because you clicked the option to romance him or just made gay because Bioware wanted a gay character. They created lore to support his character and his sexuality is part of what defines and makes him Steve. It gives him depth.

[Dhrizzle]

Steve is an example of a gay character that has supporting lore for being gay. He isn't just gay because you clicked the option to romance him or just made gay because Bioware wanted a gay character. They created lore to support his character and his sexuality is part of what defines and makes him Steve. It gives him depth.

Yes, but there's no "reason" for him to be gay, they could have changed the name of his spouse and referred to them as a wife and he would have been straight. The only reason he's gay is because BioWare wanted a gay character, they could have done the same thing to any other character by changing some names and pronouns so I don't see why you would rail against some gay characters, but not this particular one.

[rhorle]

Yes, but there's no "reason" for him to be gay, they could have changed the name of his spouse and referred to them as a wife and he would have been straight. The only reason he's gay is because BioWare wanted a gay character, they could have done the same thing to any other character by changing some names and pronouns so I don't see why you would rail against some gay characters, but not this particular one.

The reason for him to be gay is that he has a husband. Yes bioware could have made him straight. The fact that you feel the need to point that out shows you don't understand anything I have been saying. Bioware wanted a gay character and gave him a story that supports that sexuality. They made his sexuality a part of his character giving him depth.

They didn't just make him gay in order to have a gay character without supporting in any fashion. They didn't give him a wife then decide to make him gay just to have a gay character. I am not rail against gay characters but making an exception for this one. This one doesn't go against anything I have said. If they decide they want him to be gay just to add a gay character and nothing about his story, aka his reason, indicates he is gay then I would have a problem with Steve.