[DPS] Hellfire Citadel Discussion

[cwlee3]

What trinkets do you guys think are good for Mythic HF Assault? I did it without Seethe and Piston, but I think that PoF could be good as well.

Mythic may indeed give the trinket an opportunity to shine, but so far it's been quite lackluster for AS in normal/heroic. The proc is incredibly sporadic and as AS, sometimes the "swp dump" into proc doesn't seem to be much of a dps gain, requiring 4+ consistent targets hit. The trinket seems very gimmicky/padlord-y for AS and sadly M Assault/M Iskar might be the only fights it's good on. H Archi, H Xhul, H Mann (and their mythic counterparts) could benefit from PoF as well, but these are even more RNG/unreliable than Assault.

If there's a spriest whose found great parses with it on heroic/mythic, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts and view logs. Atm I can't see it consistently outperforming Iskar trink + Piston trink combo.

[Djriff]

I got the healer int, spirit crit on use trinket yesterday and I may end up rocking that as shadow for some fights for some wonderful burst DPS. If I'm not going to benefit from seethe I just run my GSR trinket with Piston. Now I plan on running piston and healer crit trinket.

[masati]

Anyone have thoughts / numbers for trinkets on a fight by fight basis?

I have access to mythic GSR and crucible wf
Heroic seethe and prophecy of fear.

Not quite sure the best set up for the different bosses / specs.

[Rob4now]

Just got 2pc.

Using AS, do you essentially always use Mindbender now or are there situations where Insanity is still better?

Also CoP always Insanity still?

[Djriff]

Insanity is better for both. However if you find you aren't getting much use out of insanity then go Mindbender.

[Rob4now]

Insanity is better for both. However if you find you aren't getting much use out of insanity then go Mindbender.

Interesting. OK well on that note what AS fights are you actually using Insanity on because I can't imagine it is many. Perhaps Kilrogg, Iskar, Socrethar (depending on strat with adds), Mannoroth (for Searing too), and maybe Archimonde for part 1?

[Djriff]

The only fight I'm not using insanity is council. I get a lot of use out of it on assault because searing = win when you have 2 arms warriors. I use it on kilrogg as the adds just die to fast, Iskar I channel searing after I have all my dots up but that's really it. Its nice for the non add phase. Socrethar we have our locks handling the ghosts so I get a lot of uptime on insanity. Mannoroth is definitely insanity, not just because of the adds, but more so once you hit p3 and 4 there isn't much else to do. Archimonde also has a lot of ST time for us as the adds just melt so I just continue to channel it.

To sum it up, if adds are spread out, living a awhile (20-30 seconds) and you aren't able to channel insanity a lot, go MB.

[Deleted]

The only fight I'm not using insanity is council.

That's interesting, because after some weeks with 4p-bonus and the new encounters I'm at the point, where I merely use insanitiy for one boss: (mythic) Kormrok. Insanity has been a single target talent for a long time, primarily because of the cop/dotweave-playstyle. But things have changed with hfc. The new single target king is cop/mindbender which is easier to play and a lot more flexible. In fights with many long living adds (e.g. Xhul, Mannoroth, Council) you should Play AS anyway, since there is little time to channel insanitiy.

So, the only niche that is left for insanitiy is aoeing big packs. That's the reason I use it on Kormrok to destroy the moving hands quickly. And yes, you will see higher numbers by doing this on Assault/Iskar/Mannoroth imps. But this is pure padding and won't help your raid at all.

[Rob4now]

Anyone have thoughts on Intuition's Gift? At the moment I have 6/6 Sandman, Heroic Sethe, and Heroic Intuition.
I've mainly been using Intuition and Sethe. I think that Sandman has slightly better stats overall but the on use on Intuition is pretty valuable for add phases etc.

Anyone have any insight to add on the matter?

Also I guess the ring would affect the ratings (which I don't have) as the 115 sec cd of Sandman almost lines up with the ring.

[Djriff]

Depending on the fight length Gift can move ahead of Pouch and Piston. I'm not sure what the cutoff time is, but lets just say X minutes. If they fight is less than X minutes, you'll get more benefit from Gift over Pouch (outside of lucky procs) or Piston. On the flip side, if the fight is longer than X then Pouch and Piston will be better. Then to determine which is better of the two, I generally prefer Piston. The crit proc can come when I really don't need it (4-5 adds already dotted) and that's where piston is nice as its just flat crit. You can also argue that Gift + PI + Ring is a great combo, which it is, but I don't think anyone has determined the actually DPS value of doing it versus just the ring and regular talents. I'm fairly certain that Ring + ToF would surpass Ring + PI, but only if you can cheese ToF while the ring buff is active.

[Djriff]

Updated the OP with new mythic stuff. I'll continue updating the guide as I down the bosses. If you disagree with what I suggest let me know. I'm trying to be inclusive to both sides of shadow, and explain why I chose what I did. Raid comp is a major factor in talent choices for us, so please keep that in mind.

[Lamortykins]

I've found mindbender to be universally better than insanity with the 2 piece. It has 100% uptime and does more damage then the shadowfiend to begin with. It's also much better as a fire-and-forget ability, instead of insanity procs conflicting with the ridiculous amount of shadow orbs I'm getting these days, causing overflow.


Unrelated: does power infusion surpass twist of fate once you get the legendary ring? They're on the same CD, and +25% haste combined with +25% damage seems like it could pack a serious punch.

[Dierdre]

It might be universally better for shameless padding. For priority targets that need to die ASAP, Insanity is still much better.

[Rob4now]

I have know idea what to do when shadowfiend comes off cd during dotweave. I feel like the multi buff from 4p must be no.1 priority but it's awkward as hell during dot weave.

I've also seen a lot of top priest going the flayless MB rotation on single target fights ie Paragon priest but I don't know why exactly.

[Deleted]

Unrelated: does power infusion surpass twist of fate once you get the legendary ring? They're on the same CD, and +25% haste combined with +25% damage seems like it could pack a serious punch.

Taking into account the explosion later it is over 50% bonus damage. On most fights the uptime on ToF can be very high.

I think that during progress the ToF will be better. 15% higher dmg to adds is usually better than just burn all cooldowns to boss at pull, and after that not having Twisted fate up on frequently spawning adds. Also on Lord Zaakun you are going to get Bloodlust during execute phase so I think that ToF will be better there as well.

But it may be worth a try, especially with trinket from Killrog, that gives you about 30% crit on use May be good for rank hunting on farm bosses.

[Deleted]

Wich tier 7 talent is the most versatile for an upcomming SP, and what would the stats prio be for that?

[Deleted]

Wich tier 7 talent is the most versatile for an upcomming SP, and what would the stats prio be for that?

With lower item levels Clarity of Power will be the most versatile talent. Universally very good stat is Haste. Mastery is top stat for single target, but crit is decent for every scenario and is top stat if you want to switch the talent to Auspicious Spirits sometimes. If you want to switch to Auspicious Spirits, a good amount of crit will be required. So I recomend this stat priority Haste ~ Crit > Mastery > Multistrike > Versatility.

[Dierdre]

I have know idea what to do when shadowfiend comes off cd during dotweave. I feel like the multi buff from 4p must be no.1 priority but it's awkward as hell during dot weave.

Remember that dotweaving is nothing but following the exact same spell priority, you just don't use mind spike until your DoTs run out. Also remember that dotweaving is just a minor (but consistent) dps increase.

[Lamortykins]

It might be universally better for shameless padding. For priority targets that need to die ASAP, Insanity is still much better.

There's not a whole lot of padding on fights like Iron Reaver, for example, yet I've found mindbender to be noticeably better than insanity on that fight.

[Djriff]

Keep in mind while dotweaving is an increase its also very unforgiving. If you dont like dot weaving then go with mind bender and spike off dp when youre out of fillers.