[Guardian] 6.2 Discussion thread

[Deleted]

All it does is make beacon overheal that much more. Until we get another blast furnace Pulv just isn't that good.

I've done quite a few bosses with BF vs Pulv and it felt no different.

Never use Tyrants decree its literal dog shit. Let me just use a trinket that will fall off and never get to stack again.... Also we don't need MORE hp... alrdy running 950k single target and on Xhul im at 1.6m.

I can understand WuE / Class trinket on Xhulhorac if you are doing Green its what I used originally... but after like 2 pulls i said no and put on BFD/Anzus.

I cannot see why you want to dismiss a 15% dmg reduction that can be kept up 100% of the time for a 40% reduction for 3 seconds every 3 seconds on every fight. There are only a few times where you take alot of damage, and for those are either very very long or short. IE Fel lord for long, Xhul for short.

Bristled Fur has its moments for some fights, but overall, a 15% dmg reduction that can be kept up 100% of the time will always win. It is nearly like having a barkskin up 100%.

I cannot see any use for GoE, the 100% dodge removes the entire point of the 20% phys dmg reduction, ofc ur you are not the best player and cannot control your rage, it does have its uses on fights like Kilrogg.

Also i find it rather odd why you would use a armor trinket like the anzu one for a boss fight where everything that can kill you is magical. I prefer ISS, since versatility and stam is by far the best counter towards magical damage.

also TD, like bristled fur, has its moments. Do not write it off because for some fights, and especially if you have alot of multistrike, you will never go below 60% since your hp pool is so massive. It is better than a random proc mastery buff that is uncontrolable (generally any tank trinket with an RNG proc is shit in my eyes as you want your trinkets to help you survive at particular moments, not help your dps survivability when it not needed)

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Hi friends, here a newbie bear, and i have a question which are the bis trinket? if you know a bis list gear i would be glad.

Trinkets: Anzu's Cursed Plume + ****
**** Second trinket is highly debated. Mostly based on your needs.

Survivability:
Blast Furnace Door (BRF if nothing else available)
(More HP) Imbued Stone Sigil
(AOE tanking) Seed of Creation
(Low health situations eg. velhari) Warlord's Unseeing Eye

DPS:
Tablet of Turnbuckle Teamwork (BRF) < Soul Capacitor < Mirror of the Blademaster

Soul cap is less than 5% dps difference on pure ST than blademaster. So for dps I'd go for blademaster when possible, else go for tablet.

[sk8rbunn]

Do you have 4pc yet? Is it really worth it over 2pc with offset pieces? Or would it be more situational?

[Gothmog]

Don't know exactly where to start replying to you Alaj, there's so much to cover.
For your first three paragraphs:
First off, tanks are generally concerned about two things: #1 living #2 damage output.
Living is binary, either you're alive or you're dead. There's some variation here, if healers are truly singletarget healing you so you survive in fullretard dps gear, something's wrong. That nearly never happens in any normal raid however. If you don't get killed in a very short space of time, you'll be healed up passively.
The attraction of Pulverize isn't nearly as dazzling where we don't care about overall damage taken.
So we're comparing apples and oranges here a bit. Your priority seems to be winning in least damage taken. For which Pulv is great, np. Most other tank posters on mmo are concerned about #1 surviving #2 dps. Getting overall damage taken to lowest possible number has nothing to do with #1 because of how much free healing there is. And since actively using Pulverize is a straight dps loss (albeit small) it goes against #2 as well.

GoE is great for Mannoroth because Glaive Toss will do ~600k HP followed by ~700k magic damage blast. Since Glaive is avoidable, there's absolutely no reason not to spec it, then you can DR Blast only.

You do have a point about using BA with Mastery proc on Xhul. If survival were an issue, I'd have gone with ISS.
http://prntscr.com/7z1lcq
This is 37 wipes on Xhul as shadow tank, arguably the most magic intensive fight in the raid. Note that those 12% of Shadowfel Annihilation is damage that wouldn't be there on the kill, because it's the reason for the wipes.
http://prntscr.com/7z1m2z
And this is the green tank damage.

I started with Anzu+BRD as advised, but bears are just so obscenely strong on that fight that I'd have gone with Soul Capacitor. Unfortunately, we already have too much cleave and adds are dying too fast, so no point. Pretty much comes down to best useful dps potential trinkets.
I also tried out some HotW action, but it's just so meh, I stopped bothering with it. Opening burst, but that's all you get out of it. Just went with +10% DoC Mangle crit, slackmode.
DK cotank on the other hand, was in some trouble now and then, mostly when melee's weren't getting parried.

Where would you use TD?

@sk8rbunn
Ignore 4p.
When have you last found yourself in a situation where you HAD to push SD and FR at the same time?

[Deleted]

sooo my guild started mythic gorfiend progress last reset just some tries and today we got there again, the problem is the add stacks, when my cotank is getting inside gorefiend.. and i am tanking the boss and the add we are getting destroyed.. i read somewhere that we cant dodge that with GoE to reset right? so any tips? was checking the logs and once i got close to 15 stacks.. hwhats the problem here? should we focus the add more? or just send some dps?!?

today logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1783&wipes=1

EDIT: and whats the best trinket defensive-wise i mean

[Jellospally]

sooo my guild started mythic gorfiend progress last reset just some tries and today we got there again, the problem is the add stacks, when my cotank is getting inside gorefiend.. and i am tanking the boss and the add we are getting destroyed.. i read somewhere that we cant dodge that with GoE to reset right? so any tips? was checking the logs and once i got close to 15 stacks.. hwhats the problem here? should we focus the add more? or just send some dps?!?

today logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1783&wipes=1

EDIT: and whats the best trinket defensive-wise i mean

The Tank add should be dead within 5 seconds of the other tank going down.

What we do is:
I go down on pull.
I come out and taunt boss other tank gets add and goes to 6 stacks(and interrupts).
We swap now I have add till I get 6 stacks and I interrupt and he has boss.
We swap now I have boss again and he has add till he gets ported down which well allow your stacks to reset.
It needs to be dead already or before you get like 4-6 stacks.

If you have BFD/Anzus just use them. Most of the damage is melee on that fight anyway. Class trinket isn't bad for that fight.

[Gothmog]

Second add spawn is always a bit tight. Taunt back and forth twice, then leave the add on him, because you have to taunt the boss when he gets Shadow, annoyingly boss will start meleeing other people / casting "no one is tanking me" zonewide dmg spell.

Conveniently that insures you're always at 0 stacks when he goes in. At that point, just blow BF->SI->SI for 15 seconds along with chaining SD for the whole duration as well. It's not like you'll need it at any other point until 3min later. If it lasts longer than that, your DPS sucks and you should ask for an external on top of all your crap.

Also pay attention to when your hpally is transported inside and be ready to heal yourself cause you ain't getting a quarter of what passive healing you usually get

[Deleted]

yeah, thats makes sence.. i was using normal archimond trinket, but swap it to ToTT to have more burst during the add, and survavility, but i guess we need more people focusing the add then, thanks jellos!

[Gothmog]

Yo Jello, we'll be tickling Tyrant on Sunday for the first time.

I've WuE and fat lewtz now so I'm not worried for myself. My cotank on the other hand, is a great player, but on a MS BoS DK.
I DO have the option of getting a feral offspec Guardian, he's done it a bit on Gorefiend, but is average at it. He does what he's told quite well, but never speaks, so I know he won't ask for externals at any point. He has something around 715ilvl without BFD or WUE.

How painful was it for Trox, which option would you recommend we go for?

[Jellospally]

I cannot see why you want to dismiss a 15% dmg reduction that can be kept up 100% of the time for a 40% reduction for 3 seconds every 3 seconds on every fight. There are only a few times where you take alot of damage, and for those are either very very long or short. IE Fel lord for long, Xhul for short.

Bristled Fur has its moments for some fights, but overall, a 15% dmg reduction that can be kept up 100% of the time will always win. It is nearly like having a barkskin up 100%.

I cannot see any use for GoE, the 100% dodge removes the entire point of the 20% phys dmg reduction, ofc ur you are not the best player and cannot control your rage, it does have its uses on fights like Kilrogg.

Also i find it rather odd why you would use a armor trinket like the anzu one for a boss fight where everything that can kill you is magical. I prefer ISS, since versatility and stam is by far the best counter towards magical damage.

also TD, like bristled fur, has its moments. Do not write it off because for some fights, and especially if you have alot of multistrike, you will never go below 60% since your hp pool is so massive. It is better than a random proc mastery buff that is uncontrolable (generally any tank trinket with an RNG proc is shit in my eyes as you want your trinkets to help you survive at particular moments, not help your dps survivability when it not needed)

More stam doesn't do anything when im at almost 1m hp single target. Why get more HP when I can get more mas procs and more dps.

BF really I don't use it on a lot of bosses, but im not gonna spec pulverize to not even keep it up because i've never needed it up to live and healers never have to direct heal me anyway.

GoE has good use on HFA its way better to have a on demand 0 dmg taken CD since everything is melee on that boss. GoE is always better when you are tanking more mobs. GoE is also a lot better on Council because if you do Dia you take 100% 0 damage during her melee phase if you time it right. Also on council if you do blademaster/gurtogg you can always drop the stacks after a fel rage if it lines up bad with double SD.

The Stam/Vers/BA trinket is wasted because once again we don't need more HP when we are sitting at nearly 1m hp single target and more with more targets. I don't need more hp if im not getting killed.

Once again the trinket procs like BFD and Anzu's aren't there for mitigation outside just auto attack mitigation. They are for damage. Then you go farther and get Blademaster for more damage.

The only trinkets you want to use this tier is: BFD, Anzus, WuE, Class Trinket, Tablet, Blademaster

A fight like Mythic Tyrant or Manno: WuE is very strong along with Anzus.

Fights like... the first 8-9 you might as well use Anzu's, Blademaster because they don't do damage.

BF is a nice oh shit + Cen Ward combo as well if its a fight without burst hits.

I did the first 8 bosses with literally 1 item from HFC and damage intake isn't scary. Using BFD/Anzu is fine for everything and maybe throw on a class trinket or WuE for some things.

- - - Updated - - -

Yo Jello, we'll be tickling Tyrant on Sunday for the first time.

I've WuE and fat lewtz now so I'm not worried for myself. My cotank on the other hand, is a great player, but on a MS BoS DK.
I DO have the option of getting a feral offspec Guardian, he's done it a bit on Gorefiend, but is average at it. He does what he's told quite well, but never speaks, so I know he won't ask for externals at any point. He has something around 715ilvl without BFD or WUE.

How painful was it for Trox, which option would you recommend we go for?

Trox didn't really have an issue. Just be careful sub 55-50% for the rest of the fight while you are tanking. Make sure he uses all those externals. You shouldn't need them yourself unless he dies and you are tanking the P3 add + boss like I had to. The boss will global your DK. He HAS to use WuE + Anzus or BFD for that fight or maybe Tablet. WuE is just too good on that fight. It is the sole reason you don't get 1 shot.

[Quotey]

the legendary ring trivialises tyrant p2, you can heal up to 100% with the shared health at the most intense moment. just pop it and ward/frenzied and neither of you will die for the duration. this is a bug but i would be surprised if they'll fix it. i don't know if it'll be up for the worst part of p3 but probably is.

[Jellospally]

the legendary ring trivialises tyrant p2, you can heal up to 100% with the shared health at the most intense moment. just pop it and ward/frenzied and neither of you will die for the duration. this is a bug but i would be surprised if they'll fix it. i don't know if it'll be up for the worst part of p3 but probably is.

Sharing healing isn't a bug... all healing even tank self heals is split in to other tank ring user.

[Quotey]

sorry if i was unclear, the healing from sanctus can go over the health cap from the velhari max hp aura though, that's the bug. here is a p2 pull with the sanctus time highlighted, you can see the health spike. that night's pulls for anyone who wants to investigate.

it's likely similar to the damage sharing portion where it's unabsorbable- the healing above cap is not being absorbed and instead is just applied. also, WUE absorbs spirit link damage, that's fun.

[Hellkung]

I asked this question once before but it got lost,

Why is Blademaster better than Soul Cap even for ST?

[Stangerlift]

Greetings, playing Guardian as my alt character, I don't intend to take him past heroic HFC unless something drastic changes with our main tanks.

From what I've gathered Mastery is the better survival stat and MS is better for some DPS, while still adding some survivability. Would it be wiser to go for as much Mas as possible or is there a breaking point of MS that I should look to obtain?

Thanks for all the help you guys have already given!

[Deleted]

I asked this question once before but it got lost,

Why is Blademaster better than Soul Cap even for ST?

Tanks have higher AP than DPSs due to BA granting extra AP.
Blademaster scales with AP, Soul Cap scales with your DPS.

And this doesn't even factors in the rng of Soul Cap either.

----

A Sim with the Normal version of the trinkets:

[heyitsqi]

I have 4p and I still find it "semi" useful. Mainly when we try to under heal to push more DPS. It's a really nice oh shit gimme HP nao kind of thing. Allows you to have some control IMHO or if your healers suck/under healing. Granted, I'm only 3/13M (should have HFC down soon) but for example on HFC I'm on Dia and there's times where our healers are just hands full dealing with other derps in our raid that I spike dangerously low and having full rage with SD + FR gives my healers enough time to catch up.

[Dreyen]

Tanks have higher AP than DPSs due to BA granting extra AP.
Blademaster scales with AP, Soul Cap scales with your DPS.

And this doesn't even factors in the rng of Soul Cap either.

----

A Sim with the Normal version of the trinkets:

Never knew seed was that powerful for survival.. the only opinion we seem to get on trinkets is their dps value in this thread, I thought all it was good was for fights with lots of magic damage since it works on that too. Too bad it doesn't display warlord's unseeing eye.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Never knew seed was that powerful for survival.. the only opinion we seem to get on trinkets is their dps value in this thread, I thought all it was good was for fights with lots of magic damage since it works on that too. Too bad it doesn't display warlord's unseeing eye.

Kinda surprised about that myself, was only using it for assault / council / iskar up till now. Might actually use it a bit more.

[Deleted]

Never knew seed was that powerful for survival.. the only opinion we seem to get on trinkets is their dps value in this thread, I thought all it was good was for fights with lots of magic damage since it works on that too. Too bad it doesn't display warlord's unseeing eye.

On most fights it will be weaker, as I used the default TMI bosses (17M), thus the DoT favors Seed quite a bit.
It reduced the DTPS from the DoT from 17.5k to 12.8k, a 27% reduction.

And the boss only melees for pathetic 30-33k, which favors Seed again.

I wouldn't really take the DTPS/TMI part due to these issues too seriously. If I would buff the melee swings to 200k, Seed would already preform much worse.