Are they sure ? Another nerf ?

[Obelissk]

What the hack am i reading is this new or did you know about it ?

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...uses-trinkets/

Feel free to discuss

[Deleted]

i literally went "what, is this like wod beta where celestalon says shamans are OP and noone knew but them?"

[BloodyAngel12]

Just saw this and dont understand why they did it.

[alexkeren]

What the hack am i reading is this new or did you know about it ?

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...uses-trinkets/

Feel free to discuss

It's been known for the longest time that once a patch is locked down for release they then do their number passes.

That's what that news item is covers in regards to what Blizzard has come up with for results from the numbers pass they were doing this week.

[Obelissk]

Im crying cant beleve it

Maybe my rogue twink will get his chance to be main

[-NeuroN-]

Remember, these are changes to upcoming set bonuses, not pure class balance. The goal is for all set bonuses to be roughly comparable (with some variance given their vastly different nature) in power, and there were clear outliers on both sides of the spectrum. The changes above represent our effort to correct some of those outliers. If you feel your spec is underperforming currently, the answer is not for a specific overpowered set bonus to prop it up, nor is the reverse true.

If you feel that we missed the mark on changes based on your analysis of these specific bonuses, or that we may have overlooked some other bonuses that are also significantly too strong or too weak, we'd love to hear that feedback in this thread.

Apparently it is not about class balance its about set bonuses balance.

[anthrixqt]

enh single target is clearly just too good for the world, so they gotta tone it down to the standards of the rest

[wordup]

Please, calm down team.

The nerf isn't actually that bad (the reason the bonus is so good atm is because of the skewed interaction from stacks present vs. stacks spent, it's obviously still a nerf and nothing good, you know my stance on that but still) in the sense of raid balance. If the patch launches, and some players are propping up the early Enhancement data by having a set bonus that (percentage-wise, relative to other classes) will RUIN the data that can be gained from early log data in HFC.

It's not a good state or situation that we have now for early mythic progress; BUT we don't want to be propped up by set bonuses to make us not awful, we want actual attention on current spell values.

[archkiller]

Blizzard (shock!): enh ST dps is finally acceptable due to a maelstrom weapon bug in ptr, so we must nerf them back to bottom, and fix the bug in live and nerf them into abysmal.

[stomination]

Please, calm down team.

The nerf isn't actually that bad (the reason the bonus is so good atm is because of the skewed interaction from stacks present vs. stacks spent, it's obviously still a nerf and nothing good, you know my stance on that but still) in the sense of raid balance. If the patch launches, and some players are propping up the early Enhancement data by having a set bonus that (percentage-wise, relative to other classes) will RUIN the data that can be gained from early log data in HFC.

It's not a good state or situation that we have now for early mythic progress; BUT we don't want to be propped up by set bonuses to make us not awful, we want actual attention on current spell values.

If they even do that. Which will be a hotfix and you will be behind in gear cause who wants to gear the class thats going to suck.

[Deleted]

Well in simcraft, we were already last place. This is another 5-6% dps nerf, so we're just dropping even more.

The problem is: the difference is huge. If they wanted to buff SS and LL, both would need another 100% buff to bring us to the middle of the pack. And they are never going to buff it by 100%.

That's how balancing looked BEFORE those changes:



The set bonus was worth 8.5k dps, so with that nerf, we lose 3.2k dps, resulting in about 71k.

20-35% behind most melees and the middle of the pack. 20-35%. I repeat, 35%...

If you count in some error margine, the difference is just huge. Too huge to compensate by some numbers tuning.

Just to clarify some of the effects: Warriors would jump to 96k, enhancers drop to 71k. Right now, warriors sim 8.5% better than enhancers. In T18 mythic, they sim 35% better.

If i look at warcraft logs single target fights, warriors sim 8.5% behind better and are 9% ahead on gruul mythic. Now, if they sim 35% better...

[L3fty]

I'm an eternal optimist / Elemental try hard, but even I am worried by this apparent gap. Some of the trinket nerfs are considerable, and some seem pointlessly small, especially if Sim numbers are to be believed. Enhance shamans, I feel your rage at this point. I suppose the one good outcome is that some set bonuses are being nerfed much more severely.

Also, I understand what you're saying wordup with regards to this being good in terms of showing the true disparity between Enhance and other DPS (of course it would be terrible for output to be propped up by the set bonus). However, since 4pc set bonus is BiS for the majority of classes, it's safe to think that Blizz assume X class WILL be using the set bonus. Therefore it does feel like raw numbers are somewhat ignored now, in favour of tweaking set bonuses, and this 3% nerf to the Enhance trinket baffles me even more. Personally it reeks of Blizz tweaking for the sake of tweaking. Once again, I am not an Enhance shammy so my experience is limited.

[Aori]

Blizzard doesn't lie, they weren't done with Shamans.

[Murderdoll]

Just one more slap in the face. Yes the 4pc was strong. At this stage the patch is days away. Will there be some fairly moderate buffs coming in those days to not only compensate but improve our initial standing? I doubt it.

[Deleted]

Elemental is also pretty low. Those 6.2 nerfs until were completely unjustified and let to them falling behind. But enhance isn't just in a poor state, it's in a very very poor state right now.

And that's despite of nothing happening to us. Just bad 6.1 dps + bad scaling let us fall that far behind. I've told from the beginning that enhance has broken item scaling. Now in T18 mythic gear, we just see how broken it is.

- - - Updated - - -

Next problem is our bad item scaling. In T18N gear, we are 24% behind warriors, in T18 mythic gear, we are 36-38% behind warriors. It's the same for a lot of other specs (e.g. fire mage 4% ahead in T18 N and 19% in T18 Mythic). We are falling behind with raids gearing up - really fast. Even faster when there are a lot of sockets on items.

[archkiller]

Bet $20 that there will be no compensation buffs to shaman in 6.2 and no one bring us to mythic hfc.

[wordup]

snip

The set bonus was worth 8.5k dps, so with that nerf, we lose 3.2k dps, resulting in about 71k.

snip

Please, no. The set bonus was not nerfed by a flat 3%. The reason the set bonus is worth such a high amount is because it's counting the amount of stacks present on cast vs. the amount of stacks actually consumed. This nerf was closer to a 1-2%~ nerf to it's strength, and since sims aren't currently calculating it correctly yet, no amount of napkin math will give the direct result because its interactions with MW are much more about the 10 max charges than the % increase.

Either way yes this sucks no it isn't the sky falling crippling of our set, yes it was a bad idea to nerf it but it was also a bad idea to have us propped up by a set bonus.

[slime]

Bet $20 that there will be no compensation buffs to shaman in 6.2 and no one bring us to mythic hfc.

That's not really Blizz's track record. More approprately, you will be buffed about two months before the release of 6.3 (or 7.0). Right around when no one even cares anymore.

[Sarevokcz]

That's not really Blizz's track record. More approprately, you will be buffed about two months before the release of 6.3 (or 7.0). Right around when no one even cares anymore.

we might also get their trademark "big changes to classes wont be happening till new expansion, so just hold on tight" with them totally ignoring most feedback, releasing one or more shaman specs in horrible state, hotfix it every other week just to make it viable... and then cycle will repeat itself. Been happening since WotLK, really...

[Deleted]

Who plays dps shamans these days?! Clearly dps shamans and shadow priests need nerfs. Kappa.