WW Monk in HFC

[CarlMcNasty]

How is everyone enjoying the new fights so far as a WW?

When the new sims first came out and showed us dropping way down its always a little disheartening, but from what ive seen so far (8/13H) the fights cater very well to WW playstyle.

TonyMcNasty - US Turalyon

[Kickbuttmario]

I made a thread for this occasion. Why does no one ever reply?

Anywho, yeah we're alright.

[Oziemaster]

I feel like the adds don't even live for long enough for WW to take advantage of them. For example, on Killrogg, brutes barely last for like 6-7 seconds before they die if everyone switches properly. Gorefiend adds are constantly moving so your clones will not be able to use your FoF. Iskar, Assault (if you pad), Tyrant, and Council seem like the best fights for Windwalker. And even then, except Council, they are just decent. Windwalker is honestly pretty trash right now. Enhancement shaman was doing better overall than Windwalker even before their buffs.

[Imbalanced]

yeah we're alright.

Seems about right. Not good but not god awful either

[Notter]

Dunno man, i don't feel powerful at all, at least in my guild.
here's our logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/6672

To me it seems like classes that are WAY easier to play have way more output and way more use in all the fights.
If you compare us to rogues, they do MORE damage AND they got smoke.

As for the fights themselves, there are many targets that need to be nuked down. so i barely even get to use my clones or AoE.
At least not on the first kills.
I'm sure for padding the meters we can do better.

but all-in-all, monks are kinda crap.

[Basilmoyh]

I feel like the adds don't even live for long enough for WW to take advantage of them.

Adds don't survive long enough with Soul Capacitor trinket... gosh, what an irritating trinket it is... keep an old/another trinket for non-bosses.

[Imbalanced]

Dunno man, i don't feel powerful at all, at least in my guild.
here's our logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/6672

To me it seems like classes that are WAY easier to play have way more output and way more use in all the fights.
If you compare us to rogues, they do MORE damage AND they got smoke.

As for the fights themselves, there are many targets that need to be nuked down. so i barely even get to use my clones or AoE.
At least not on the first kills.
I'm sure for padding the meters we can do better.

but all-in-all, monks are kinda crap.

look at your iskar parse. You arent happy near the bottom? Then look at the ranking info. Dude you had a 34th percentile parse. Do you really expect to be topping the meters like that?

Go back and look at hellfire council a 20th percentile parse got you middle of the pack.

You should probably re-evaluate how you judge your class

[Notter]

look at your iskar parse. You arent happy near the bottom? Then look at the ranking info. Dude you had a 34th percentile parse. Do you really expect to be topping the meters like that?

Go back and look at hellfire council a 20th percentile parse got you middle of the pack.

You should probably re-evaluate how you judge your class

guess i wasn't clear enough. i meant there are many targets i need of nuking, and so the orders from GM were to single target.
i can pad..
in case you think i can't play the monk well, let's have a look at Hellfire Assault: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...nkings&fight=6

so really, that's not the issue.
the issue is that cleaving the bosses on these fights is pretty bad.
on Iskar for example, you wanna nuke down the corrupted priest/warden/raven. NOT the harmless mini adds.
we tried AoEing, and failed, once we nukes single, we killed the boss.
and guess what? single target, not so great for monks in comparison.

[Deleted]

Priest + Warden + Raven = Storm, Earth, and Fire. That is not padding.

[CarlMcNasty]

Padding is a very interesting topic. I think that Babylonius says it best on his forums - https://walkingthewinds.wordpress.co...s-scumbagging/

If the damage you're putting out is useful damage, it's not quite "padding".

As for the soul capacitor, it can be very good...or potentially very bad. With the case of adds dying too fast, that could potentially be a good thing to provide all the stores damage you deal to little adds directly to a priority target of the RNG gods allow it. On the other hand, you could get a proc...store up 5-6 seconds of damage...then get sent into gorefiends belly or have to run out of range for other mechanics that essentially lose you 10 seconds of dps. Ouch. I still love it though for when it does work out!

[Fraky]

Well, it's not a question if the damage is useful or not it's rather the issue that a certain add must die in a certain amount of time. Iskar for example: Sure in the last add phase you can put SEF on the 3 adds to maximize your damage. But by doing that the time all 3 adds are alive is increased because you dmg all equally.
That means the rotation of the eye between healers who dispel the bombs, melees who kick the construct and the tank tanking the raven must be maintained longer. Now if you nuke down one add at a time the groups don't have to worry about the eye anymore. You can even argue that the raven doesn't need to be killed at all at this point.

All in all I don't feel like monks have a great time in HFC but that could change because I haven't seen the last bosses yet (8/13H). Because of the priority targets being very important the monk is just ok in most fights.

[CarlMcNasty]

Another thing to keep in mind is that it has only been one week in HFC. As time goes on everyone will become more accustomed to the fights and learn where you can and can't cheat a little. My logs were personally all over the place over the first 8 bosses this week ranging from 95th-45th percentile since we were seeing fights for the first time (no PTR). With a couple new trinkets, weapons, and fight knowledge I expect to start being able to use the ww toolkit a bit better this week.

[Notter]

As the overall dps of the raid will be higher, you can AoE/Cleave with less care.
but like i said, for the first kills, it's more important to kill certain mobs in a very small time-frame.
so even if you use clones to max your dps, but that one mob died 5 seconds later... you're doing it wrong.

and since personally i care more about first kills than high ranking, i feel that if a monk needs to single target, than a monk is not such a good class compared to other melee with utility.
and that will be more obvious in Mythic probably, because you'll definitely have to nuke one target quickly.

I really wish they'd just give monk some utility skill, not sure why they'd remove it in the first place

[Deleted]

Well, it's not a question if the damage is useful or not it's rather the issue that a certain add must die in a certain amount of time. Iskar for example: Sure in the last add phase you can put SEF on the 3 adds to maximize your damage. But by doing that the time all 3 adds are alive is increased because you dmg all equally.
That means the rotation of the eye between healers who dispel the bombs, melees who kick the construct and the tank tanking the raven must be maintained longer. Now if you nuke down one add at a time the groups don't have to worry about the eye anymore. You can even argue that the raven doesn't need to be killed at all at this point.

All in all I don't feel like monks have a great time in HFC but that could change because I haven't seen the last bosses yet (8/13H). Because of the priority targets being very important the monk is just ok in most fights.

You don't need 14dps to do nothing but singletarget tunnel one add, yes there are things that have priority over others, that doesn't mean u shouldn't use ur class str. If there ever was such a need, like if u'd only get 1chance on elementalists on BF, u'd bring nothing but arcanemages, demowarlocks and hunters.

Btw, on Iskar, the healers interrupts works just aswell as melee so u don't really need that extra tossing around.

[Notter]

I agree to a certain degree, but let's think about what happens when that class uses it's "strengths" at cleaving.
your main raid target will take less damage over time > it will cast more abilities > your raid will target it for longer > you waste dps that could go somewhere else.

that being said, as the same time, you gain damage on a target that would otherwise not take damage.
but that's the only benefit.
which is irrelevant, when you simply want THAT target to die NOW.

[Deleted]

I agree to a certain degree, but let's think about what happens when that class uses it's "strengths" at cleaving.
your main raid target will take less damage over time > it will cast more abilities > your raid will target it for longer > you waste dps that could go somewhere else.

that being said, as the same time, you gain damage on a target that would otherwise not take damage.
but that's the only benefit.
which is irrelevant, when you simply want THAT target to die NOW.

That class most likely has another spec better suited for ST tunneling that they can use for that ST burst, if u're in a raid with only hybrids u might be out of luck. So i'd say that most likely there are others "padding" way more than u are for using sef.

From the 12bosses i've killed so far on heroic i've never felt like i've held back the raid, never been dead last on these so called priority targets.

[CarlMcNasty]

All very good points. From why ive experienced, other raid members are usually going to be way better at providing the essential burst on targets that we need. Monks play into their niche by providing decent damage to the kill target as well as helping with any other targets nearby (or afar with sef). The only fight that comes to mind where serenity comes big into play for an add might be on Socrethar, with the big dude who spawns from the red portal.

I'm definitely no world class player, but I consider myself decent. And I haven't had much trouble being competitive in our group damage wise.

[Oziemaster]

Enhancement shamans were already doing better than us overall in HFC before their buffs. Now that they got their buffs they have completely gone by Windwalkers overall. Where are the Windwalker buffs? Nah, let's nerf combo breaker by 10%.

[Killface1]

Our single target/priority target sucks a bit. It used to be pretty super good. If you go in with the expectation and goal of maximizing that, you're gonna have a bad time and think monks suck. It'll take some adjustment for raid leads to figure out where monks new niche is, but were pretty good in any cleave or extended AoE situation, of which there are many in HFC. Go in with the goal of maximizing your cleave damage and you'll find you're doing a lot better.

In short, monks aren't in a great spot right now, but HFC boss fights work in favor of monks, so it evens out pretty well and were still capable of great things. Terrible, but great. Like Voldemort.

Edit: also, were good on more bosses than we're bad.

Good
Hellfire Assault (for now, and probably for mythic, depends on how short the fights end up being and how quickly shit dies when people get used to it)
Iron Reaver (no melee is good here, but as far as melee goes we're really not bad, we've got good movement abilities, and were great on bombs)
Council fight or whatever it is
Killrog - pretty legit, lots of shit to clone consistently through the entire fight. Lots of "burst this target down quickly" which were also pretty good at if we line our TeB's and FoF's up with the hulking terrors well.
Kormrok - decent, we don't shine for the single target, but were pretty mobile, can help out with runes in a pinch, and the hands live long enough for us to AoE, so were certainly not bad, just not top of the pack.
Gorefiend: anybody who doesn't recognize us as fucking amazing on that fight needs to pull their head out of their ass. Constant clones and important things to cleave and burst. Not to mention a huge portion of that fight comes down to how much damage you can do during the feast of souls burn phase, and I can only assume you have not figured out how to pool TeB and energy and chi if you think were not amazing for that fight
Socrathar: decent, the boss is a giant meatshield which isn't our expertise, but the add that needs to be burned down quick is a great priority target for us to dominate with TeB rolling
Iskar: because obviously. If you're not cloning and AoE'ing you're doing it wrong for all the add phases (including add wave 3).
Xhul: constant adds to cleave that are up 24/7? Raid in need of solosoakers? Need a class to go clear out giant patches of bad without taking damage? Probably one of our stronger fights in both raid utility and damage.
Tyrant: 70% of the fight has two targets stacked on eachother. And I've heard were pretty good at cleaving.
Mannoroth: Donno if you've noticed there is a lot of cleave in this raid, but if you haven't, this is a great boss to take note. There is a lot of cleave.
Archimonde: if you still haven't noticed there is a lot of cleave, you probably never will. However, again, archimonde played well will result in lots of damages done.

Bad fights: Zakun.

Are we the best in the business? No. Is there any reason to not bring a monk into a raid because they suck too much? definitely not.

[Megabloks]

Seems to be a bug with Soul Capacitor at the moment. Where the damage from the explosion can bug and be splitting when there is only 1 target. Here is a log demonstrating

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...5162&options=2

When you add up all my damage you get 788.5k then you multiply this by 1.3077 (heroic soul cap) then you get 1031.12145 then if you divide this by 3 you get 343.6k. Even though there was only 1 target that it could even hit the game thought there was 3 targets that it either couldn't damage, possibly player guardians/pets, or invisible entities. Seems like it could also be splitting on the corpses of dead enemies.

This also happened multiple other time throughout the night, which can be easily seen from the WCL spirit shift subtraction of damage multiplied x1.3077 is not the same damage that Spirit Eruption actually did. Obviously sometimes you can miss explosions but it's way too common that this trinket is splitting damage from the explosion when there is nothing to actually split it on. Although it did seem fine on the most single target fights, but until this bug is fixed I'm not sure I would recommend using Soul Cap. Since a lot of the time you actually lose damage if this split bug happens enough, or barely gain any damage.


Ok well it seems they are fixing the trinket tomorrow.