Oklahoma court: Ten Commandments Must Come Down

[Kalis]

It's an abiding faith in the denunciation of other faiths if we go by the conduct of a majority of it's members of late. I would submit they are as rabidly zealous going about it as Cardinal Ximinez and the Spanish Inquisition also. Ergo, if they are morally repulsed by the sight of another faith, espousing intolerance characteristic of Christian, and Muslim faiths, they must also from a logic driven standpoint be a faith themselves. A faith that knows that if they are labeled as such, they lose the current unfair advantage they enjoy in litigation.

Expect a challenge to it to come in the coming years if it has not come yet.

It's still not a religion.

[Rukh]

It's an abiding faith in the denunciation of other faiths if we go by the conduct of a majority of it's members of late. I would submit they are as rabidly zealous going about it as Cardinal Ximinez and the Spanish Inquisition also. Ergo, if they are morally repulsed by the sight of another faith, espousing intolerance characteristic of Christian, and Muslim faiths, they must also from a logic driven standpoint be a faith themselves. A faith that knows that if they are labeled as such, they lose the current unfair advantage they enjoy in litigation.

Expect a challenge to it to come in the coming years if it has not come yet.

Not all beliefs are faiths. Atheism is not faith. It's a belief.

[Doctor Amadeus]

There is a huge difference between allowing people to practice their religion on government property and physical religious objects on government property - one is personal, the other is public.

Also, atheism isn't a religion no matter how often people say it is.


Edit: A monument put up in 2012 isn't comparable in historic context to the Parthenon.

No, Atheism isn't a religion but Anti Theism sure as hell is.

[Zervek]

This is a sign of the end of days. First it was gay marriage, and now this. America was founded on CHRISTIAN values and people seem to forget that.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Not all beliefs are faiths. Atheism is not faith. It's a belief.

Belief and Faith are the exact same thing.

[Kalis]

No, Atheism isn't a religion but Anti Theism sure as hell is.

Sikhism is a religion as well.


Are we going to list all the religions we know?

[Zervek]

Not all beliefs are faiths. Atheism is not faith. It's a belief.

Athiesm is the lack of a belief. Hence "A" is no and Thiesm is belief. No Belief.

[Rukh]

Athiesm is the lack of a belief. Hence "A" is no and Thiesm is belief. No Belief.

False. Theism isn't belief. Theism is the belief in the existence of a god or gods. A-theism is the lack of belief in god or gods. You can pretty safely consider a-theism the belief there are not gods for 99% of people, though you could get all semantic and say that the lack of belief doesn't always translate in to the belief of lack.

[Zervek]

False. Theism isn't belief. Theism is the belief in the existence of a god or gods. A-theism is the lack of belief in god or gods.

You knew exactly what I meant. Regardless, Athiesm isn't a belief. All Athiests want evidence to believe in a higher power. They do not "believe" there is no God's. They know there isn't because there are no facts to support it. That's why all religions depend entirely on faith.

[Rukh]

You knew exactly what I meant. Regardless, Athiesm isn't a belief. All Athiests want evidence to believe in a higher power. They do not "believe" there is no God's. They know there isn't because there are no facts to support it. That's why all religions depend entirely on faith.

We're basically saying the same thing. It's not really something I feel like getting pedantic about.

[Velnora]

You knew exactly what I meant. Regardless, Athiesm isn't a belief. All Athiests want evidence to believe in a higher power. They do not "believe" there is no God's. They know there isn't because there are no facts to support it. That's why all religions depend entirely on faith.

False. We do not know there is no god, we merely do not accept claims without evidence to support something. Nobody knows what is out there, so we do our best to try and understand how things work.

[Mavick]

The constitution does not exist simply to serve the majority. It exists to serve *everyone*. So even if the majority of people in the area want something, even if it offends only 1 person, that 1 person still has a right.

[Felya]

False. We do not know there is no god, we merely do not accept claims without evidence to support something. Nobody knows what is out there, so we do our best to try and understand how things work.

Not knowing if god exists is agnostic... Atheists do not see a reason for a god to exist...

[Brubear]

This is a sign of the end of days. First it was gay marriage, and now this. America was founded on CHRISTIAN values and people seem to forget that.

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

and in case people don't think that was the doing of our founding fathers.

"Official records show that after President John Adams sent the treaty to the Senate for ratification in May 1797, the entire treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, and copies were printed for every Senator. A committee considered the treaty and recommended ratification. Twenty-three of the thirty-two sitting Senators were present for the June 7 vote which unanimously approved the ratification recommendation.[10]"

Our nation was founded on a whole slew of differing values. Do you know how many Catholics were present during our nations founding, not to mention the religions brought over with African slaves. Let's also not forget the large amount of Asian immigrants and the beliefs they brought with them during the expansion westward.

No, America was not founded on CHRISTIAN values. It was founded by everyones values.

[Dendrek]

This was a great read, but I still think there is a lapse in the argument. I do not see how having the ten commandments posted violates: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...." And how does posting this prevent people from "worshiping as they see fit". Again, a great read, but I think applying the arguments you are describing to something like posting the ten commandments is really a stretch. Implementing the ten commandments as law would be in violation of these arguments.

Showing the 10 commandments on a government building demonstrates implied support and favoritism for a particular set of religions, and suggests that those commandments somehow have precedence or importance in how that government building functions. To people who do not share that religion it symbolizes the establishment of a favored religion and an inherent bias against their own personal beliefs.

[obdigore]

You must either show support for NO religion or ALL religions.

You can't turn down the Goat Headed Satan, or the Flying Spagetti Monster, or Vishnu or Zeus or any other religion, if you allow one to be put up.

It puts the government in an untenable situation unless you can find space to put up statues of interest to every single religion that exists inside the state.

[Dendrek]

This is a sign of the end of days. First it was gay marriage, and now this. America was founded on CHRISTIAN values and people seem to forget that.

I'm so glad it's only uninformed Christians who seem to think this. I would hate to live in the hellhole that is a Christian state.

[Deleted]

No, Atheism isn't a religion but Anti Theism sure as hell is.

Like Anti Alcoholism is just another form of Alcoholism brilliant logic.

You must either show support for NO religion or ALL religions.

You have to support the lack of religion too and Satanism it's a religion too.

[Shiny212]

No, the American constitution and the language referring to the separation of religion and state specifically offers more than enough to interpret it only as an absolute law that says, nothing of a religious nature should ever receive public property or other benefit.

It's extremely clear, I honestly don't know how anyone with a legal degree can argue it's not. Really counting on some zealous bible-thumpers to be able to overturn it on a state level, because it has zero legal merit.

[zephid]

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so declare you under your oath towards the United States, the Constitution, and its people?" Just thought of that in 10 seconds. You can surely make a secular statement.

Or they could just shorten it to: "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?"