When has being rude become worse than being bad?

[pateuvasiliu]

I've been playing DotA since the mid-late 2000s, then moved to LoL, then DotA 2, then HOTS.

In my experience, flaming is considered worse than ruining the game and feeding. Why is that? Insults can be muted with a single click, if the bot feeds 0/5 by the time I have my ult I can't exactly pretend that didn't happen and proceed to play normally.


I've been only punished once for flaming, with a 40 some games of having an impaired communication ( which if you think about it hurts my team more than it hurts me ) but I've never seen or heard of anyone being punished for feeding intentionally.

Hell I did it a few times and quite frank when I was punished I wasn't mad I got punished, I was mad they didn't punish me for playing like shit and ruining games but they punished me for calling a bunch of feeders cunts. I mean what the hell, what kind of backwards SJW driven society are we in when words are punished more harshly than actions?


In DOTA 2 I'd report people of feeding and I'd sometimes get a message saying my report was deemed right, so at least there's hope.

[alex14]

Idk man, I play LoL a lot and in my opinion problem is people cant accept losing.

I also have bad games ( I dont intentionally feed, but it happens I get just stomped, towerdived etc. ), I also sometimes flame people cuse they make bad plays but in the end its not solution and I know it, but its somehow easier just to empty yourself.

Game is made so that someone must lose, and we are humans, we have to look for someone to blame as we all would like to win.

In ranked people are looking for win not fun :/

[Vago]

I believe it is because of the stigma that follows DOTA / DOTA2. New players are afraid to even try the game because of how toxic you hear the community can be so Valve is trying to fix that. I love DOTA2, play it all the time, but there seriously is a problem with people calling others out for whatever reason they deem necessary even if it isn't unwarranted. Frankly, some of my friends are the worst. In fact one of them has the record for the number of low priority queues; the reason? Because he finds it fun to fuck with other players.

[Mirishka]

I believe it is because of the stigma that follows DOTA / DOTA2. New players are afraid to even try the game because of how toxic you hear the community can be so Valve is trying to fix that. I love DOTA2, play it all the time, but there seriously is a problem with people calling others out for whatever reason they deem necessary even if it isn't unwarranted. Frankly, some of my friends are the worst. In fact one of them has the record for the number of low priority queues; the reason? Because he finds it fun to fuck with other players.

Do you enjoy having assholes for friends?

[Deleted]

Yeah, I think the same way. I don't like rude people, but it's so easy to ignore them. I mean it depends on how rude they are, but things like "OMG you noobs" are hardly worse than playing like an absolute moron. I mean, ok, you are new to the game, but some of the things you see in games, oh my god.

[zealo]

Both are bad, but there's a bit of a problem with players who don't understand the difference between calling out mistakes and giving directions, and flaming others, especially if its not actually the one being flamed that's at fault.

There is NO need to toss in any kind of insult whatsoever when giving directions to your fellow team members, even if its tempting. Getting cursed at by someone they perceive to be some random gamer on the internet isn't going to make them try to improve. With some civility the majority of players are more receptive to feedback.

[slime]

This PC society we live in. If you are bad you can get better with practice, if you are mean ... well you aren't going to change (most likely).

[Deleted]

OP

When feelings became more important than reality.

[Deleted]

Always? I mean, that's at least my opinion.

If someone was bad, the most logical idea is to offer some suggestions to improve their playstyle. Obviously if they're a bot that won't work, but if they're bots, insulting them won't work either, it will just annoy the other members of your team.
So, in the end, being rude is worse than being bad because you can improve from being bad or you can be helped to improve. However, when you're rude, you alter the state of mind of everyone in the team because you look like an idiot.

For example, I was playing a HotS game and we had an Anub'arak player and a Johanna. We had no healer though. This was ranked, and take in mind Johanna had picked his char before Anub'arak. Yet it was Anub'arak whining the whole game that we have no healer and calling Johanna and all of us idiots and the such for dieing. Overall, it made the entire game very annoying, at least to me. And at the end we still almost won, bringing their Core down to 20% before Anub tried to tunnel into an enemy next to their well and all of them killed him and came 5vs4 at the rest of us. And it was still him that raged. And the enemy team won. And even if the enemy team won, I was happy that that rude bastard in my team didn't win.

[Poppincaps]

Because flaming is a choice. Being bad usually isn't.

[Deleted]

Always? I mean, that's at least my opinion.

If someone was bad, the most logical idea is to offer some suggestions to improve their playstyle. Obviously if they're a bot that won't work, but if they're bots, insulting them won't work either, it will just annoy the other members of your team.
So, in the end, being rude is worse than being bad because you can improve from being bad or you can be helped to improve. However, when you're rude, you alter the state of mind of everyone in the team because you look like an idiot.

For example, I was playing a HotS game and we had an Anub'arak player and a Johanna. We had no healer though. This was ranked, and take in mind Johanna had picked his char before Anub'arak. Yet it was Anub'arak whining the whole game that we have no healer and calling Johanna and all of us idiots and the such for dieing. Overall, it made the entire game very annoying, at least to me. And at the end we still almost won, bringing their Core down to 20% before Anub tried to tunnel into an enemy next to their well and all of them killed him and came 5vs4 at the rest of us. And it was still him that raged. And the enemy team won. And even if the enemy team won, I was happy that that rude bastard in my team didn't win.

You can't just teach someone how to play their hero in a MOBA in the middle of a game.

[Deleted]

Because flaming is a choice. Being bad usually isn't.

Beat me to it by a matter of minutes...

[Deleted]

Because flaming is a choice. Being bad usually isn't.

What? So people can't become better? People can't be bad because they are lazy?

[I Push Buttons]

Idk man, I play LoL a lot and in my opinion problem is people cant accept losing.
In ranked people are looking for win not fun :/

Its fun to win.

Its not fun to waste an hour of your time completely powerless to counteract the terrible playing of other players you have no control over and then lose because of that terrible playing.

I personally never communicate in DotA style games outside of pings (9/10 it is met with bullshit responses), but I completely understand where they are coming from, and I especially understand raging when people ignore advice. I often find myself in games where people are playing horribly and people will say "hey don't do that, you should do this, watch out for that, etc..." And such advice more often than not is entirely ignored and the people continue to play absolutely atrociously. That is frustrating. There is literally nothing you can do to change it. Leaving the game means you are punished. All you can do at that point is either grit your teeth and lose gracefully (which is pretty damn hard when you are losing at no fault of your own) or vent your anger towards the bad players (or what you perceive as bad players). Most people vent. Especially since they are rarely punished unless it is constant unabashed bullshit spewing 24/7 with people reporting them every game.

[pateuvasiliu]

I believe it is because of the stigma that follows DOTA / DOTA2. New players are afraid to even try the game because of how toxic you hear the community can be so Valve is trying to fix that. I love DOTA2, play it all the time, but there seriously is a problem with people calling others out for whatever reason they deem necessary even if it isn't unwarranted. Frankly, some of my friends are the worst. In fact one of them has the record for the number of low priority queues; the reason? Because he finds it fun to fuck with other players.

It's not about DotA. DotA's reports are still mainly focused on the way you play not the way you talk. And I thank the heavens Valve hasn't gone full SJW like Riot has.

The average quality of the people I meet in DotA's casual/unranked games is higher than LoL's gold league in my experience. And that's saying loads, because while Gold is no Diamond people are supposed to know by now how to play the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Because flaming is a choice. Being bad usually isn't.

But it sure is. You lose the first teamfight and die, sit back, farm, try not to get damaged and wait for your jungle to either gank and restore balance or kick your opponent out of the lane so you can farm and catch up. It's really not rocket science.

But when you die and you do nothing of the above but rather say '' I can beat him this time '' despite the level and gold difference and you die again I'm sorry but that's idiocy.

[Archonite]

Because flaming is a choice. Being bad usually isn't.

This is in my opinion the main reason flaming is worse.

I dont remember ever seeing someone who was intentionally feeding but didnt try to flame first. No person just queues to intentionally feed, feeding comes from frustration. Frustration comes from others flaming, or when flamers get ignored and take it a step further to gain attention. From experience anywhere between 90 to 99% of what people say as "advice" has a negative undertone or implication. These messages arent aimed to improve the worse player but to vent frustration and anger. And the remaining 10% are so used to anything being directed at others being negative, that even well intentioned advice is assumed to be sarcastic or insulting.

Also there isnt really such a thing as "being bad". Anyone of us would appear bad when playing in a team with 4 professionals, but its not the bad player's fault for getting matched with those of a significantly higher skill level. And if you think your teammate is playing bad, do you honestly believe being rude will do anything to improve that?

[Helgrimm]

What? So people can't become better? People can't be bad because they are lazy?

No, everyone can become better, but noone chooses to play bad (bad in the non-trolling sense, which i think the OP is getting at). two different things. To blame a bad player on laziness is unfair imo; its like blaming anyone not in the top tier of their career paths for "not trying hard enough".

[TheCount]

I can work with people who are bad, it may be unpleasant but I can still make it work

I can't work with people who are rude, no amount of logic makes those kinds of people understand.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Being rude is a choice. Being bad often is not.

[Ulfhedinn]

Because flaming is a choice. Being bad usually isn't.

This. The only people that choose to play bad in any game are basically flaming/trolling anyway. No one says they want to suck at anything.