Another "Elemental is Shit" Thread

[Ogudei]

So I was just sat during progression for the first time ever purely because Elemental is shit. I took the least amount of avoidable damage, but when a 5th healer was needed that really wasn't taken into account. I know Blizzard tries to cater to a wide variety of players, but why don't they take into consideration Elemental Shamans raiding Mythic? So many conditions need to be met before Elemental is actually viable on many encounters in HFC.

Your class trinket is needed before you're even remotely viable on Hellfire Council, Tyrant, Fel-Lord. (Any single-target, council, or sustained cleave encounter)

To actually do well on Hellfire Assault, Kormrok, Xhul'Horac, and Mannoroth the cleave of your raid needs to be relatively weak.

And finally I have no hope for Archimonde. The only reason Elemental even looks "OK" on this encounter is because we have phase 2 to catch up.

We're absolutely not viable for Kilrogg and Gorefiend. Far too much target switching onto targets that don't live long enough for your DPS not to suffer.

Even watching other Elemental Shamans with their 4 piece and class trinket they're destroyed by many other classes. I don't want to be top of the meters, and it's unreasonable to think we ever will be. I'm fine with that. At this very moment though, I've never been more convinced that whoever is in charge of class development and balance plays pure DPS classes.

[Deleted]

I'm absolutely speechless by the current state of Elemental and Blizzards lack on buffs or even usual band-aids. And since melees are OP this tier, I doubt we'll see a spot on mythic raids unless its a gimmick boss. Being "good" on some bosses doesnt offsets the fact that you're pure shit on most of them. Since Balance isnt as great as in BRF, I'm mainly playing my Mage currently, which is a good decision.

On the other hand, while I have the time to maintain lots of geared alts, I also doubt most of us doing it. And I feel sorry for you guys, since its only Blizzard hindering you being awesome and a useful part of your raid team with your favourite class. While good feedback is always needed, it didnt have an effect in WoD at all - they even went away from a full rework of Shaman to just totems.

[Deleted]

Melees arent op. It is just few of them. Every hunter or mage is 10 to 15% ahead on single target than enhancers.

Enhancer is a weak melee and elemental is a weak ranged spec. That's it.

[Nebria]

I don't think a number buff will do that much tbh.
My issues are ele mechanics.
Target switching for short living targets isn't fun if you need fs -> lvb for your major damage.
EQ needs CL but if the targets are not in range of each other it just sucks. jump ranges seems to small for me.
EQ has no front loaded damage so it is only good for long living targets. this is a minor issue but it effects dps meters a lot. even casting cl is difficult when you used the wrong target and it died while casting.

So far I only did 6/13 hc and some archimonde nhc trys and at the moment I fell I got the wrong tools for the jobs which really hurts.

[Eroginous]

So I was just sat during progression for the first time ever purely because Elemental is shit. I took the least amount of avoidable damage, but when a 5th healer was needed that really wasn't taken into account. I know Blizzard tries to cater to a wide variety of players, but why don't they take into consideration Elemental Shamans raiding Mythic? So many conditions need to be met before Elemental is actually viable on many encounters in HFC.

Your class trinket is needed before you're even remotely viable on Hellfire Council, Tyrant, Fel-Lord. (Any single-target, council, or sustained cleave encounter)

To actually do well on Hellfire Assault, Kormrok, Xhul'Horac, and Mannoroth the cleave of your raid needs to be relatively weak.

And finally I have no hope for Archimonde. The only reason Elemental even looks "OK" on this encounter is because we have phase 2 to catch up.

We're absolutely not viable for Kilrogg and Gorefiend. Far too much target switching onto targets that don't live long enough for your DPS not to suffer.

Even watching other Elemental Shamans with their 4 piece and class trinket they're destroyed by many other classes. I don't want to be top of the meters, and it's unreasonable to think we ever will be. I'm fine with that. At this very moment though, I've never been more convinced that whoever is in charge of class development and balance plays pure DPS classes.

You think Ele is bad in raids? Try playing Ele in pvp. It's fucking embarrassing (as any shaman spec is right now). We're a free HK in all pvp modes. The only thing we're good at is 3s as Enhancement with the purge glyph. We spam purge and get free maelstrom weapon stacks and offheal our team. Outside of that, we're shit.

[Schadow]

Shamans, more aiming at DPS at this point, feel like being a hamster trying to escape the wheel with no exit that keeps rolling. I don't like it and I'm lucky enough that I do not play with great players, hence why I'm always at the top part of the meters for me. But I have to play it 100% perfect, if I make just one mistake, I go so far down below, you won't even see me.

That makes it, to me, very unforgiving. I'm all for difficulty, I welcome it, but it should not be that for a simple fuck up in the rotation or if adds get separated (damn you Socrethar), our DPS suffers tremendously.

[Thallidomaniac]

You think Ele is bad in raids? Try playing Ele in pvp. It's fucking embarrassing (as any shaman spec is right now). We're a free HK in all pvp modes. The only thing we're good at is 3s as Enhancement with the purge glyph. We spam purge and get free maelstrom weapon stacks and offheal our team. Outside of that, we're shit.

The recent nerfs to Survival Hunters, making them utterly hopeless in PvE and PvP, may beg to differ. At least they still have their mobility, whereas Ele is still pretty much the Team Coast/Minnesota Timberwolves/Cleveland Browns/Buffalo Sabres/Copenhagen Wolves of WoW.

[Deleted]

What? One mistake?

If it was like that (it isnt) you would see shamand top the metres. If the best enhancer is 55k and the bet feral 67k, the difference isnt skill. It is just tuning.

Actually i think enhance is forgiving. Elemental is straightout very hard to pay with low rewards.

[Odintdk]

I love how the optimist monkeys who wouldn't shut the fuck up about how fine and viable we will be in 6.2, everytime a feedback thread was made, are nowhere to be seen now, very standard for how dps shamans in these forums operated for many years now.

On the other hand, while I have the time to maintain lots of geared alts, I also doubt most of us doing it. And I feel sorry for you guys, since its only Blizzard hindering you being awesome and a useful part of your raid team with your favourite class. While good feedback is always needed, it didnt have an effect in WoD at all - they even went away from a full rework of Shaman to just totems.

I have a 700 geared alt dps warrior, but i could never bring myself up to reroll to it, never been able to, not EVEN during T11 which easily was the worst tier for Elemental for the entire history of WOW, barely competing with tank damage on most encounters (dat vanilla earthquake on sinestra doe lol), i still powered though that and waited patiently for the bandaids.

But this time around, i don't seen them even doing these bandaids anymore, mainly because they're more worried about other "pressing" issues with losing half the playerbase and the fact that they wont be making another raid tier content for evidently atleast another year. dps shamans never been a priority, and especially wont be now during these overall glaring design with the whole game itself.

A very long dark tunnel awaits ahead, lets see if its enough of a slap on the face to wake some of the community up NEXT beta, see if we stop being mind blowingly optimistic for once and actually push that terrible joke of a dev team to work on these specs, for ONCE in ONE beta, if ever.

[Deleted]

Melees arent op. It is just few of them. Every hunter or mage is 10 to 15% ahead on single target than enhancers.

Enhancer is a weak melee and elemental is a weak ranged spec. That's it.

Not every melee. But certainly Arms Warriors (there's one simming for 80k, lol), Frost DKs and Ferals - also as a melee (or any class with an Execute ability) you're basically guaranteed a spot on (mythic) Archimonde. Enhancer is on par with most melees, but they'll lack Execute for Archimonde, which'll be offset by their cleave potential.

- - - Updated - - -

I love how the optimist monkeys who wouldn't shut the fuck up about how fine and viable we will be in 6.2, everytime a feedback thread was made, are nowhere to be seen now, very standard for how dps shamans in these forums operated for many years now.

Wise words right there. I didnt see this people yet again, except for Zaruge..

I have a 700 geared alt dps warrior, but i could never bring myself up to reroll to it, never been able to, not EVEN during T11 which easily was the worst tier for Elemental for the entire history of WOW, barely competing with tank damage on most encounters (dat vanilla earthquake on sinestra doe lol), i still powered though that and waited patiently for the bandaids.

But this time around, i don't seen them even doing these bandaids anymore, mainly because they're more worried about other "pressing" issues with losing half the playerbase and the fact that they wont be making another raid tier content for evidently atleast another year. dps shamans never been a priority, and especially wont be now during these overall glaring design with the whole game itself.

A very long dark tunnel awaits ahead, lets see if its enough of a slap on the face to wake some of the community up NEXT beta, see if we stop being mind blowingly optimistic for once and actually push that terrible joke of a dev team to work on these specs, for ONCE in ONE beta, if ever.

This time I also said "fuck this" and will be concentrating on playing my Mage & Lock during progression, even thought I have an 710 Elemental - who cant keep it up with a 3 button Arcane mage or lolHavoc Destruction lock.

[Deleted]

Yay, another thread that sums up exactly what 3 other threads have summed up in the past 24 hours.

- - - Updated - - -

I love how the optimist monkeys who wouldn't shut the fuck up about how fine and viable we will be in 6.2, everytime a feedback thread was made, are nowhere to be seen now, very standard for how dps shamans in these forums operated for many years now.

*waves* It's great to see the pessimist monkeys still rolling in the same shit they've been crapping out for ages now.

As I said on the other thread, to be great at 4 or 5 encounters, pretty good at one or two, decent at one or two, and meh on 4 or 5 is perfectly fine.

Get over it, don't play shit on the ones we're good at, and you'll be fine.

[thegempolice]

Worst type of encounter for Ele is lots of target switching, but the adds don't stay alive for long, and don't clump up together. That's like, over half the bosses in HFC. Played Ele since DS and this is the worst raid tier for us in terms of encounter mechanics.

I also want to add that the legendary ring secondaries are our two absolute dogshit stats. Minor point, but it doesn't help when the ring will eventually be 795.

[Murderdoll]

Enhancer is on par with most melees, but they'll lack Execute for Archimonde, which'll be offset by their cleave potential.

So much nooope.

[Odintdk]

- - - Updated - - -

As I said on the other thread, to be great at 4 or 5 encounters, pretty good at one or two, decent at one or two, and meh on 4 or 5 is perfectly fine.

Get over it, don't play shit on the ones we're good at, and you'll be fine.

The very few encounters we're "great" at don't count for shit when you're a complete hindrance at the end boss of the expansion, resulting in being sat out for progression on that and most probably Monnaroth too. But seeing how you haven't killed either on heroic, i'd say you're just speaking from ignorance rather than actively trying to be difficult, could be both though.

[Deleted]

So much nooope.

Most melees = retris, rogues, etc. Just not ferals or arms warris, who are currently OP. Nonetheless, Enhancer is still in a better position DPS wise than Elemental currently, no need to get wet eyes.

[Schadow]

So much nooope.

Well, let's think about it for a second regarding the execute what he mentioned. A lot of classes have some kind of execute when a boss goes below 20% (or 35%). I think the only that do not are mages and boomkins? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

If shamans would get an execute planned in and tuned accordingly, it could make it better for us DPS wise? As usually, I'm pretty high, but as soon as that boss hits 20%, I see every DPS starting to go higher and higher. I don't know how easy or difficult it would be to implement an execute.

[Sezerek]

I guess Murderdoll "noooped" the part with the "cleave potential".

[Deleted]

The very few encounters we're "great" at don't count for shit when you're a complete hindrance at the end boss of the expansion, resulting in being sat out for progression on that and most probably Monnaroth too. But seeing how you haven't killed either on heroic, i'd say you're just speaking from ignorance rather than actively trying to be difficult, could be both though.

I wish you the best of luck in designing an end-boss encounter that all 11 classes can be "great" at

[Deleted]

I wish you the best of luck in designing an end-boss encounter that all 11 classes can be "great" at

Yeah, if we could find a way to start balancing all 11 classes instead of just 5. That'd be a perfect world.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure if people just don't really understand how class balance works but here's the lowdown. All 11 classes can't do everything equally well otherwise the game would be homogenised as anything, and complete shit as a result. You may as well not even have 11 classes when all of them can do everything equally.

As a result of classes feeling different, there will undoubtedly be encounters that suit some and not others. Hellfire Assault, Kormrok, Iskar, Socrethar and Xhul'horac suit us perfectly, as it will do for a few other classes. The remaining classes have to fit perfectly somewhere within the 8 other remaining bosses.

S'not that hard to grasp really.