Archimonde Class Trinket

[Cyberthug32]

Hey guys, just got the normal version of trinket tonight. I have seen people saying that it might actually be a dps loss on some fights like HFA or heavy switching so which trinkets do u suggest i use for different fights? Considering i am swaping bettweer affli and destro on fights.

I have the following trinkets:

fragment nm(705)
warforged crucible mythic (706)
goren soul repository mythic (700)
prophecy of fear nm (715)
desecrated shadowmoon insignia nm warforged (696)

I thinking about playing destro on ST and cleave so its - every fight pretty much. And playing affliction on councils and tyrant valheri. (btw any1 knows at what ilvl/stats does gosac become better then supremacy?)

I generally only care what does more dmg for each fight. I got 2p t18 and 2p t17 atm with an ilvl of 707.

Also should my opener be different with fragment on destro? should i get 5 stacks on very start and just after that start dumping chaos bolts?
Any tips on keeping stacks on each boss and how the priority changes since u need to keep stacks up.

Any suggestions, advice or tips are very welcome

Thanks in advance.

goren soul repository mythic (700) with the desecrated shadowmoon insignia nm warforged (696) is what I use and seems to do great for Hellfire Assault. Rest of the fights I would roll the Fragment and DSI

[Nephcyte]

I have been trying out this trinket on archimonde hc progression and i am extremely disappointing. This trinket is just a flat out dps loss since you have to switch all the time and keeping stacks on archie isnt beneficial anyway since he isnt prio target most of the time. Also if anything stops u from casting incinerates for more then 6 seconds u loose the stacks. Cuz it takes 1.1-1.7 seconds to cast it and 2 seconds(max range) to reach its target. So any movement, debuff or just anythings screws you up.

Just when destro can't go for demonic servitutide+service for high movement fights any more and have to play CR for every fight witch suffers from movement that much, they manage to design this amazing trinket to make it even worse by making our dps suffer from loosing stacks of trinket cuz of moovement or switches.

This is also true for any other fights with heavy switching or movement mechanics. I was so happy when i got it cuz all simcraft says thats its a huge dps gain but in reality it i'snt true for most bosses.

I just find it being so absurd. Any thoughts?

[JV Chequer]

I have been trying out this trinket on archimonde hc progression and i am extremely disappointing. This trinket is just a flat out dps loss since you have to switch all the time and keeping stacks on archie isnt beneficial anyway since he isnt prio target most of the time. Also if anything stops u from casting incinerates for more then 6 seconds u loose the stacks. Cuz it takes 1.1-1.7 seconds to cast it and 2 seconds(max range) to reach its target. So any movement, debuff or just anythings screws you up.

Just when destro can't go for demonic servitutide+service for high movement fights any more and have to play CR for every fight witch suffers from movement that much, they manage to design this amazing trinket to make it even worse by making our dps suffer from loosing stacks of trinket cuz of moovement or switches.

This is also true for any other fights with heavy switching or movement mechanics. I was so happy when i got it cuz all simcraft says thats its a huge dps gain but in reality it i'snt true for most bosses.

I just find it being so absurd. Any thoughts?

It's nearly irrelevant cast incinerate on secondary targets u can simply keep debuff @ Archimonde, Immolate on all targets and chaos bolt the main targts with havoc @ arquimonde.

[Deleted]

I have been trying out this trinket on archimonde hc progression and i am extremely disappointing. This trinket is just a flat out dps loss since you have to switch all the time and keeping stacks on archie isnt beneficial anyway since he isnt prio target most of the time.

I'm not convinced it's a dps loss, but I certainly have come to absolutely loath the trinket within hours of getting it.
Surprising, since I'm usually all for mechanics like this and Shadows Embrace, but when it comes as a trinket slot it feels horrible having to start stacking it up fresh every time a new add spawns, and god forbid your stacks fall off.

So yeah, not sure the math backs up your claim since I've seen plenty of warlocks doing well with it, but I certainly think it feels bad.

[Deleted]

It's nearly irrelevant cast incinerate on secondary targets u can simply keep debuff @ Archimonde, Immolate on all targets and chaos bolt the main targts with havoc @ arquimonde.

What JV is trying to say is that it's almost pointless to cast Incinerates on secondary targets because of the low damage.
Basically throw Immolates on adds, then Incins on Archie to keep the stack up and gain embers. Then nuke Chaos Bolts on adds (preferably with Havoc on Archie).

This same setup works for several fights where adds have prio while you still have a boss around that can be hurt. Kilrog, Gorefiend, Xhul'horac and probably Mannoroth off the top of my head.

Once you have CR the damage of Incinerate is negligible. Don't see it as damage, but as an ember and trinket stack builder for Chaos Bolts. Where you throw the Incins, nobody cares.

[Nephcyte]

The thing is that keeping stacks on archie just results in an overall dps gain so its useless. It doesnt help to kill adds faster witch are always prio. And with all running around for whatever reason its just such a pain. And if stacks are dropping to often any trinket like mythic crucible, GSR or DSI nm becomes better then fragment in reality. Witch is just terrible design decision imo.

I mean literally more then 6 SECONDS long switch/running away from your target for whatever reason results in stacks dropping and huge dps loss. And there are SO MANY scenarios where you are gonna drop stacks in hfc. And because its stressful u can miss havoc cd or smth else. Like it just goes against the whole mentality of why demo got nerfed and what Ion said in interview about that rotation should'nt be so irritating.

As for archie building them up again doesnt make much sense cuz u r sacrificing dps for adds and they are most likely gonna drop again soon for whatever reason (boss mechanics)

[Glyphtics]

If you can't consistently keep up your stacks you need to learn how to play better. Utilise your movement abilities on Archimonde so that you can keep stacks up, and watch boss mechanics, it's really not that hard. Use Gateway and Portal for Allure, Burning Rush if you have to move for Doomfire etc.

You have so long to react to mechanics, from both a foresight and execution standpoint that your debuff really shouldn't be dropping off as much as you make it seem like it is.

With that being said, the buff could be a bit longer or handled better.

[Brusalk]

If you can't consistently keep up your stacks you need to learn how to play better. Utilise your movement abilities on Archimonde so that you can keep stacks up, and watch boss mechanics, it's really not that hard. Use Gateway and Portal for Allure, Burning Rush if you have to move for Doomfire etc.

You have so long to react to mechanics, from both a foresight and execution standpoint that your debuff really shouldn't be dropping off as much as you make it seem like it is.

With that being said, the buff could be a bit longer or handled better.

It is true though that the trinket is, in effect, not really helping you all that much on damage for those high-priority adds. The only gain in damage you get on the off-targets if you're only incinerating the boss to keep up stacks is the extra 17% crit for Immolate and Incinerates. While Incinerate does hit like a wet-noodle, it does still hit for non-zero. In terms of damage gain from a trinket on priority targets, you'd probably be better served running a different trinket that has a proc which could be useful, and has raw stats which will always be useful.

[Aravell]

Hey guys, I've made a weak aura group to help track this trinket on your main and focus targets, happy to share and I'd appreciate any feedback for how to improve it if necessary

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[Nephcyte]

It is true though that the trinket is, in effect, not really helping you all that much on damage for those high-priority adds. The only gain in damage you get on the off-targets if you're only incinerating the boss to keep up stacks is the extra 17% crit for Immolate and Incinerates. While Incinerate does hit like a wet-noodle, it does still hit for non-zero. In terms of damage gain from a trinket on priority targets, you'd probably be better served running a different trinket that has a proc which could be useful, and has raw stats which will always be useful.

That was kinda my point. First of all i do find it hard to keep stacks in some scenarios. So if im droping them it just feels awful and stressful. I just thought that archie trinket was suppose to be a cool flat out dps increase (like tier 2p, 4p) and probably the biggest single item increase witch people would be so eager to get and spend all their double rolls on and be really happy when they get it. Because of all the benefits it provides, not getting more stressed or pressured.

Also the fact that in some or ANY kind of scenarios (like priority switches/bursting/HFA type fights) other even last tier mythic trinkets can outperform archiemonds trinket i just find it ridiculous.

P.S. What goes for affliction multi doting can be rather challenging for newer players but with trinket multi doting even more often just seems like a terrible idea.

[Deleted]

Just got archie normal trinket, and it wasn't the neverland I thought it would be.

Like mentionned above, keeping those 10s stacks up on multi targets encounters plus the travel time of incinerate can be quite painfull and not really rewarding. Tried it on progress on Archimonde HM and it was hell, the movements plus all the adds, especially in p3 sub 25 with all these infernos or shadows make my life hard, because this boss is all about adds priority, keeping ur stacks up goes against the mechanics of the encounter, that s retarded.
Anyway I droped this trinket and took back the black iron crucible 706 with socket and came back to 55k dps.

Tried that shit on :
- Gorefiend : one touch of doom = bye stacks, the 500 K CBs during feast of souls are funny tho, even if I think that affliction bursts harder.
- Killrog : one heartseeker = bye stacks
- HFA : lol
- Iron reaver : I guess this one is okay.
- Socrethar : lol u wanna burst dominator ? pls
- Velahri : Affliction
- Mannoroth : 24794644 priority adds, can t waste 1 GCD / 9s on incinerate focus
- Xulhorac : same, and affliction burst harder sub 20%
- Zakuun : Allright there


Only really enjoyed arch trinket on Iskar, the dps during the add phase is retarded.

This trinket should have been a flat dps increase anyway (like +20 % crit), like other classes get a "don t change ur gameplay" trinket.

I don t know wtf blizzard did with our trinkets, but this plus the affliction trinket having no synergy with the 2p + 4p make me a bit salty.

PS : check this uptime https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...5229&source=28

I guess we are all bad

[anon5123]

Priest one isn't good at all from what I've heard.

Yeah, the Priest class trinket is pure bullshit. Like, "what the fuck was Blizz even thinking", Vanilla-balance levels of pure bullshit.

For Holy priests, it's literally a downgrade to even equip the trinket. Empty trinket slot is an upgrade over this trinket.

For Disc priests, it's really situational, and IIRC people are still trying to calculate how/when it would be an improvement over a regular trinket.

For Shadow priests...dunno, it seems decent, but only for single-target, because it only buffs Mind Blast/Spike/Flay.

So I'll gladly pass the token to you guys, because the trinket is shit for my class.

[Deleted]

I suppose you could also take into account that the extra Crit when Incinerating Archimonde results in more embers to spend on priority targets, although this is a fairly weak argument and probably not all that much of a noticeable gain.

[gruxxar]

i do think fragment is pretty much a go go on every fight (except HFA ^^). Even if you were to replace fragment with a different weapon (let's say GSR as you're other trinket should be DSI). the thing has to proc ofc during the add to have some real benefit over fragment (other than the passive Int).

If managed right, the debuff should always stick to the Main boss & it's guaranteed to be there when you cast it (+ on top of that the extra ember gen. which Shizwix just mentioned)

PS: i hate the trinket too, don't get me wrong!

[Calz]

If only it procced of conflagrate too.. /Dream

[Deleted]

Simply depends if your raid can afford you keeping the stacks on the boss. But it may be troublesome on a few bosses like xul/archi/HFA(not sure tho)

[Deleted]

I suppose you could also take into account that the extra Crit when Incinerating Archimonde results in more embers to spend on priority targets, although this is a fairly weak argument and probably not all that much of a noticeable gain.

I suppose the counter argument would be every 1 incin spent maintaining the buff on Archi is 1 incin less spent stacking crit on an add - though if you can down the adds no problem then it's not a big issue, but I think it still holds water as a claim the trinket is weakening output on adds to a degree.

I've also noticed that both Sparkuggz and Gabzz don't seem to be using the class trinket. I know there's some feasibility to armory shenanigans to give misinformation during the world first race, but I imagine it's more realistic to argue that they're not happy with the results of the class trinket on Mythic Archi.
All assumptions and a difficulty harder than most people complaining about the trinket will be attempting, but I'd presume it gives some credence to the trinket being lackluster on Arch being more than just people being bad.

[Baconeggcheese]

I only have the normal mode class trinket but for most destro fights I find myself constantly switching back to GSR because the class trinket just plays against what I need on a lot of fights.

I also am not seeing the dps gain simC is claiming with it on patchwerk / light movement for destro. SimC has destro stomping aff in ST and live my experience (and skimming WCL) has shown the opposite for mythic encounters.

SimC makes the trinket look like its a 5k dps increase or something silly, but on live it doesn't seem to play out that way at all.

[Turturin the Warlock]

I was actually a fan of ISF, but not this trinket. The trinket is less usable in every way: buff on target vs ISF on player, 10 secs vs ISF's 20 secs, 5 casts for full stack (7-8 secs) vs 1 cast for full ISF benefi (~2.5 secs).

It would really feel a lot better if either: duration was longer, or if stacks dropped 1 by 1.

losing a full stack because Iron reaver started zoom-zooming around the room, or because kormrok jumped into a pool or because I got seed of corruption, etc, is stupid. At 10 seconds long, no matter how well I plan ahead, there are frequent possibilities for the stacks to drop that I totally can't control.

[Cyberthug32]

I agree the stacks shouldn't all fall off, as well I have noticed that sometimes my Incinerate hits the boss, and the stacks didn't refresh too. Not sure if thats a known bug or if anyone else has encountered it.

It was very minor seeing that and maybe happened once a fight at most.