Top 25 WoWprogress : only one elemental (doing bottom dps)

[Deleted]

Saw this afterwards, so I'm editing. Sadly this isn't the worst tier for Elemental and probably won't be. Sure where we are is pathetic and in need of a big buff, but we were far worse, borderline horrendous, in T7 and T11.

Have to disagree. The only thing which is left to make this disaster perfect, is giving Archimonde an LMFAO emote and a text "You brought an Elemental to a gun fight?!"- type thing.

T7 was a different time, classes were generally different. T11 was bad, but certainly not as bad as T18 is going to be - since you have the same problems as in T11 + they multilated your ability as a torret. You wont have a chance to stay at one place and cast.

Maaaaan, ALL the promises of compansation for the cut of moving while casting during beta...

[PetersenIV]

While melees are OP (Arms simming 84k) and mages burst with 500k DPS. BALANCED.

And everyone still wants only ranged DPS.

[Flurryfang]

welcome to the world of top 25 guilds! Just because they dont use elemental, does not mean they are not good! I use 2 shamans in my nornal/heroic group and they are often on top!

What ele shamans is good at, is not something ultra high guilds are after.

[Ogudei]

It seems Normal and Heroic raiders will never understand these posts.

[Deleted]

And everyone still wants only ranged DPS.

No, not this tier, friend. Elementals will be the first being sat for a melee this time around.

- - - Updated - - -

It seems Normal and Heroic raiders will never understand these posts.

Let them live in their own vacuum.

[ablib]

It seems Normal and Heroic raiders will never understand these posts.

People with an IQ above 75 will also never understand these posts.

[Volitar]

Still blows my mind how some specs are left in such a pitiful state going into progress but I guess if you're in good enough guild to where it effects you that you probably have alts ready.

Oh and just be happy the shaman mods don't come in here and close these threads saying everything is fine like in Wotlk/Cata.

[Zyky]

Have to disagree. The only thing which is left to make this disaster perfect, is giving Archimonde an LMFAO emote and a text "You brought an Elemental to a gun fight?!"- type thing.

T7 was a different time, classes were generally different. T11 was bad, but certainly not as bad as T18 is going to be - since you have the same problems as in T11 + they multilated your ability as a torret. You wont have a chance to stay at one place and cast.

Maaaaan, ALL the promises of compansation for the cut of moving while casting during beta...

As I said above that reply, Archimonde is 1 fight that isn't friendly at all for us, but it's not friendly for ANY caster. Were you an elemental in T11? We were far FAR worse than we are right now. Comparing 1 fight this tier to a whole 13 boss tier is asinine. I said that I agree Elemental is undertuned compared to other classes this expansion AND last expansion, however we were far worse off in T7 and T11. It isn't that Elemental isn't viable, its that other classes are way overtuned and weren't brought down to par, so there has to be a middle point and most people see this as a "buff Ele" middle point instead of a nerf everyone else middle point.

Reality is a damage buff isn't all that Elemental needs, what we also need is a rework(this goes for Enhancement too). The core of our rotation is fine, sure short on the damage aspect in terms of filler spells, but overall Elemental core rotation is fine. We need utility and mobility, no matter how large the damage buff we get, its not going to make a high end guild take Ele to Archimonde. Even without some kind of utility, a mobility change would fix a large portion of our problems. And everyone is going to argue, but the fact is I'm agreeing that Elemental is not well off at the moment, but just a damage buff won't fix the basis of our issues.

[Deleted]

Archimonde mythic is the pinnacle of progression this addon. Who in his right mind would gear an Elemental if he completely sucks at this fight? This last boss is 100% more important to any serious progression guild (note that top 50 slots will be taken in less than 6 weeks) than the 12 before him. Not to mention that every piece of item currently nets another mail wearer more DPS than it does to Elemental. Sum it up and its unlogical, unjustifiable and straight out idiotic to gear or take an Elemental with you, if you're going for BLEEDING EDGE PROGRESSION.

My Arcane Mage does 15k more DPS while using 3 buttons, while having tons more utility, movement and survival abilites than an Shaman ever had. Same goes for every other caster. Not to mention that Locks and Mages have atleast 2 viable specs each raid tier.

Reality is, if you still have to discuss what Elemental needs or doesnt need, you havent understood the real problem.

[Zyky]

Archimonde mythic is the pinnacle of progression this addon. Who in his right mind would gear an Elemental if he completely sucks at this fight? This last boss is 100% more important to any serious progression guild (note that top 50 slots will be taken in less than 6 weeks) than the 12 before him. Not to mention that every piece of item currently nets another mail wearer more DPS than it does to Elemental. Sum it up and its unlogical, unjustifiable and straight out idiotic to gear or take an Elemental with you, if you're going for BLEEDING EDGE PROGRESSION.

My Arcane Mage does 15k more DPS while using 3 buttons, while having tons more utility, movement and survival abilites than an Shaman ever had. Same goes for every other caster. Not to mention that Locks and Mages have atleast 2 viable specs each raid tier.

Reality is, if you still have to discuss what Elemental needs or doesnt need, you havent understood the real problem.

Whatever lol, I'm done with threads you're in. You don't listen to other people. You look at half the things said and instantly look at it as being assaulted personally. Then you retaliate with this disgusting attitude of "you're wrong because I said so". You've done this in multiple Shaman threads over the last few weeks. Go do you bro, I'm done trying to contribute when all you're going to do is care about your own opinions and tell everyone else they're wrong.

[Ogudei]

He's normally right though.

[Odintdk]

Whatever lol, I'm done with threads you're in. You don't listen to other people. You look at half the things said and instantly look at it as being assaulted personally. Then you retaliate with this disgusting attitude of "you're wrong because I said so". You've done this in multiple Shaman threads over the last few weeks. Go do you bro, I'm done trying to contribute when all you're going to do is care about your own opinions and tell everyone else they're wrong.

You're taking this way too personally, you both are arguing the same THING. Only disagreement being WHICH was worse between this and tier 11? okay here's the thing. Teir 11 WAS (individually, tier vs tier) worse like you said, especailly when you look at shit like Al'akir where Elemental barely were able to cast anything and therefor struggled to stay above tanks. BUT like UcanDoSht pointed, that WASN"T the end tier of cataclysm, Elemental still was heavily band aided right after T11 ended, for firelands, via 4p bonus and actually topped meters because of that (first and last time ever).

Archimonde on the other hand IS the end boss of this expansion, and every guild IS looking towards that on mythic, gearing and preparing a raid setup specifically for it. And in that sense its a far worse situation than we had in T11 as the loss of participating in progression on an end boss of the expansion is a much greater loss and damaging ,than missing any entire individual tier on its own. There really is no need to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing.

[Deleted]

Seriously considering switching to my boomkin (I don't like playing it at all...) at this point.

[Deleted]

It's not like ranged really struggle. Mages and Hunters perform great, locks have insane potential too and boomkins and shadows are very strong on many fights.

Elemental and locks struggle the most with movement, so they're the first to fall behind. Additionally, mages with same gear simply can pull 20% more dps. 20%...

The difference is just huge. On many bosses, both shaman specs are 10 to 25% behind top dds in higher percentiles. It's not a joke anymore.

Just look at archi normal:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...et=80&sample=7

[Deleted]

Whatever lol, I'm done with threads you're in. You don't listen to other people. You look at half the things said and instantly look at it as being assaulted personally. Then you retaliate with this disgusting attitude of "you're wrong because I said so". You've done this in multiple Shaman threads over the last few weeks. Go do you bro, I'm done trying to contribute when all you're going to do is care about your own opinions and tell everyone else they're wrong.

Take it easy, bro. Other posters pointed it out already, so no need to go into detail again.

Just to add: our rotation has heavy flaws. Its proc and RNG based due to multistrike and an useless link between FL and LvB, which results in target switching problem. Also, Multistrike damage got a unwarrented nerf in 6.2 PTR... and no compensation two weeks into the patch, while we struggle to get a spot in mythic raiding. Blizzards class design team is a joke currently - atleast under GC they designed classes to be competetive during progress.

[Deleted]

The thing is, when Warrior got some nerfs PvP wise early MoP because they were one shotting people with 5 stacks tfb, the warrior community as a whole cried out in anger about that. When elementals are atrocious both in PvP and PvE, a lot of shamans will defend it regardless or set off any buff they come up with with equal nerfs to other parts of the speccs.

How come so many shamans are gluttons for punishment, you don't see that in any other class community who will demand buffs even if strong and will defend their class even if they're obviously too strong?

[Deleted]

Yeah it's really weird. We shamans have all those guys saying "Shut up, we're fine" all the time, even when simcraft and warcraftlogs show how far behind we've fallen once again. And then those "Uh we're not in a top guild, so we can get our raid spot because they don't want to disenchant all that shaman loot".

[Odintdk]

The thing is, when Warrior got some nerfs PvP wise early MoP because they were one shotting people with 5 stacks tfb, the warrior community as a whole cried out in anger about that. When elementals are atrocious both in PvP and PvE, a lot of shamans will defend it regardless or set off any buff they come up with with equal nerfs to other parts of the speccs.

How come so many shamans are gluttons for punishment, you don't see that in any other class community who will demand buffs even if strong and will defend their class even if they're obviously too strong?

I have been shouting EXACTLY this ever since the huge unwarrented nerf at WoTLK's launch , both here and on b.net US DD forums (back when they were relevant, oh GC where art thou =/ ). It never seized to both confuse and amaze me during all these years as to why we have amongst us, so many players who are so opposed to the idea of change and improvement.

I ended up partially convincing myself that the reason must be that the bigger half of the shaman dps community were playing on the casual/semi-casual bracket. And that idea made so much sense to me when i thought about how dps Shamans never were that abundant in high end raiding due to all the shit we kept repeating for years. And so when these shamans lost their raid spots then were forced back to mid tier or even casual raiding, thus putting them with raiders well below their skill ceiling, and they end up out dpsing or even topping meters in these guilds, possibly convincing themselves shaman dps is great again, pop on these forums and start defending it with all their lives while stating they top meters and all that good shit.

Either that or its just dumb luck that we're having so many dps shaman in denial by nature. Or maybe it is true that this class i over represented in some god knows how or why-way, and thus we again have to deal with the higher percentages of casuals cuz that'd be the case when you have a high represented class...

Honestly who the fuck knows anymore, really, lol.

[Deleted]

All of this + the complete lack of a theory crafting community with enought willpower to constantly release numbers and argue with game devs on forums which matter.

[DreamSlaveOne]

After receiving a forced six months vacation on my shaman main, I leveled and geared boomkin. Guys, I have no words to describe how better it feels while playing boomie.
It's utterly unbelievable how better an much more versatile other classes at all core aspects of game (pvp, raiding, outdoor). Our class is dying, our community is dying in despair. We gave up. I gave up. I have no faith in blizzard fixing my beloved shaman.

P.S. I'm raiding in mythic difficulty but to be honest it doesnt matter. It seems all people who loves being and playing a shaman left blizzard long ago.