Shadow trinkets in 6.2 HFC

[Regia]

I'd like to start a discussion on the trinkets available in HFC, how they alter our rotation, which is better for single/multitarget DPS, etc.
I hope to have info on all the trinkets soon. In particular, the Prophecy of Fear (Mannoroth trinket) has some important info to maximize its use.

PROPHECY OF FEAR (Mannoroth trinket)
1. Any spell damage seems to have an equal chance to cause a Mark to appear on a target, including aoe. AS spriests may get this trinket to proc more often than COP spriests due to their constant rolling damage, rather than the "dry" periods with no active spell damage in between mind spikes.
2. The explosion procs off of mind blast, mind spike, the FIRST TICK ONLY of shadow word: pain and devouring plague, your T100 talent, and shadow word: death. Reflective Shield is definitely capable of setting it off if the mob is directly attacking you, unsure if it sets off doom nova if the mob is just aoeing you.
3. The proc is called "Doom Nova" and is a strong AoE. Spam-exploding the mark with instant-casts like SW:Pain does more DPS to mob packs than mind sear:insanity (CoP), regardless of the size of the mob pack. For the duration of the mark, this gives the AS spriest the ability to do stronger aoe on a stacked mob pack than a CoP spriest using sear insanity (even without considering the pre-existing multidots)
4. It seems to proc much more rarely/inconsistently than the tooltip indicates. It's very unreliable to proc when you need it, if you need to burst aoe in a short window. It is possible (rare) to get back-to-back procs for insane AoE damage, but don't depend on it.
5. Good stack AoE for both COP and AS (swp spam on the Marked target to aoe the pack). It has a 20yd range so it reaches much farther than MS:Insanity on stacked mob packs as well. Useless for AS singletargeting, "meh" for COP singletargetting.
6. Once you get the mark to proc on a certain target, seems to always pop up again on that same target, if it does proc back-to-back. This might mean that the instant direct dmg you're spamming on the marked target actually activates the mark more often than indirect/aoe, or the trinket might be programmed to prefer repopping on the same target. It also seems to prefer popping on your main target first in general, but not if you are just mind searing. Keep a watchful eye out in case it pops up on a background mob -- letting a proc waste away is a huge loss of potential.
7. If you are singletargeting a boss while using this trinket, don't spam SW:P while it's up, just do your regular mind spikes and mind blasts, as well as shadow word:death if you have it glyphed/available. If you're in the middle of your CoP dot phase, stop it, save your orbs and start mind spiking.
8. The Doom Nova proc does NOT proc Twist of Fate if you are focusing a marked target above 35% health, even if the aoe is hitting mobs that are below 35%, so make sure to monitor ToF to keep it up.

Keep in mind that I am stacking haste>mastery>multi>crit>versatility and playing CoP at 710ilvl. With that said, Doom Nova trumps Mind Sear:Insanity for me, but it might not for those stacking less mastery, so post with your different results/findings with regard to AoE. Here's me on WarcraftLogs in case it helps anyone: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...latest/#boss=0

Anyone know if there's already an addon that can let me quickly switch my target to whichever mob has the mark? I already have TidyPlates enabled to show the mark icon above a nameplate, but with a lot of nameplates in an aoe situation, it's sometimes hard to quickly target that specific mob without wasting time on the very small 10-sec window of the mark.

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UNBLINKING GAZE OF SETHE
-Does not alter the rotation.
-Does approx. 5.0% of my dmg as CoP singletarget; 8.0-10.0% as CoP multitarget/AoE.
-Seems decent for both singletarget and AoE.
-Does very heavy damage when multidotting with AS, especially if mobs are loosely stacked.
-Seems to benefit AS much more than CoP, though it is still good for CoP, especially in AoE situations.

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Repudiation of War currently has its own discussion(s), so I will not discuss it extensively here, except with comparison to other trinkets when we get more info about them.

Other trinkets to discuss:

CHIPPED SOUL PRISM (Doom Lord Kazzak) vs Iron Reaver Piston for CoP entry/normal mode?

Desecrated Shadowmoon Insignia (for CoP) vs Prophecy/Gaze?

We have overall BiS lists floating around, but I'd like to get a list of appropriate trinkets on a per-fight basis for both CoP and AS. Example:

Mannoroth (Auspicious Spirits)*: Unblinking Gaze of Sethe/Iron Reaver Piston
Mannoroth (Clarity of Power): Desecrated Shadowmoon Insignia/Unblinking Gaze of Sethe

*RoW might actually be better for AS, not entirely sure -- that's why this is a discussion and not a guide just yet.

[Deleted]

Also procs off the initial damage of swp. So when it procs on a mob in an aoe situation I just spam swp on the target with the debuff

[Kilee25]

The title is a bit misleading as this is pretty much just about prophecy of fear...

Anyway, this trinket is BIS for CoP. That plus RoW will probably be your two "dream" trinkets this tier. In an AE situation, or rapidly switching targets, Sethe would replace War. PoF will be your "all the time" trinket.

Basically when the debuff goes out, switch to a single target rotation and go to town. MB, MSx3, MB, infinity for 10s. Don't worry about clipping the DP dot off, you'll get far more damage increasing chances for this thing to proc.

[Regia]

Also procs off the initial damage of swp. So when it procs on a mob in an aoe situation I just spam swp on the target with the debuff

Just tried this and can confirm it works awesomely. Good idea.
EDIT: Important that you only do this in an aoe situation. For singletarget, keep doing your slow mind spike/mind blast rotation. If you have the glyph, you can also squeeze in a shadow word:death.

The title is a bit misleading as this is pretty much just about prophecy of fear...

Anyway, this trinket is BIS for CoP. That plus RoW will probably be your two "dream" trinkets this tier. In an AE situation, or rapidly switching targets, Sethe would replace War. PoF will be your "all the time" trinket.

Basically when the debuff goes out, switch to a single target rotation and go to town. MB, MSx3, MB, infinity for 10s. Don't worry about clipping the DP dot off, you'll get far more damage increasing chances for this thing to proc.

It's not misleading. It's the only HFC trinket I've experimented with. I don't have information about every trinket. That's why it's a discussion.

[Dawnrage]

Does prophecy's Doom Nova not trigger it's damage on the initial cast of mind flay/insanity?

I'm curious about how big an upgrade RoW is vs the other trinkets for single target really. I know Twintop said it was our best single target trinket by far in a tweet somewhere, but how much better is it? Is it a trinket we should try to get ASAP or can other trinkets tide us over?

[Regia]

Does prophecy's Doom Nova not trigger it's damage on the initial cast of mind flay/insanity?

I'm curious about how big an upgrade RoW is vs the other trinkets for single target really. I know Twintop said it was our best single target trinket by far in a tweet somewhere, but how much better is it? Is it a trinket we should try to get ASAP or can other trinkets tide us over?

No, Doom Nova doesn't react to mind flay nor mind sear.

And well, more than +15% dmg (RoW) is obviously a lot stronger than the ~5% damage I calculated from Prophecy/Gaze in singletarget fights. Remains to be seen how useful/difficult it will be to use it on other fights.

[Djriff]

Seethe also procs from dot ticks. I'll have to check if it procs from mind flay/insanity/searing as well. On Iskar it does a ton of dmg if you SW:P all the adds and just gatling gun DP's into the priority target.

As to Chipped Soul Prism vs Piston, I prefer the Piston. If you can't get the heroic version then by all means CSP is probably better for you. It doesn't compare to the GSR trinket (heroic/mythic) or the stage 6 Sandman's Pouch.

As to your question regarding an addon to swap your target, no there isn't one as that would be considered a bot. However if you use Tidy Plates or Elvui to change your name plates you can configure it to show the debuff so you can see it easier.

[Regia]

Seethe also procs from dot ticks. I'll have to check if it procs from mind flay/insanity/searing as well. On Iskar it does a ton of dmg if you SW:P all the adds and just gatling gun DP's into the priority target.

As to Chipped Soul Prism vs Piston, I prefer the Piston. If you can't get the heroic version then by all means CSP is probably better for you. It doesn't compare to the GSR trinket (heroic/mythic) or the stage 6 Sandman's Pouch.

As to your question regarding an addon to swap your target, no there isn't one as that would be considered a bot. However if you use Tidy Plates or Elvui to change your name plates you can configure it to show the debuff so you can see it easier.

I assume you're running AS for Iskar then? Any idea if COP+mind sear procs it at a similar rate?

And for the target swap, I meant maybe something that acts like the blizzard default ui, which puts a targetable nameplate on the side of the screen whenever a boss/priority target comes up. Maybe there is a way to configure something like that so that it pops up one of those for the marked target.

[Djriff]

I can look to see if it does. AS is superior to cop on that fight as you can do some massive damage to the talon priest and have more dots ticking each with a chance to proc darklight.

- - - Updated - - -

It appears that it does proc off of MF/Insanity/Mind Sear/Searing Insanity, but at a much lesser rate.

Exmaple

[Regia]

I can look to see if it does. AS is superior to cop on that fight as you can do some massive damage to the talon priest and have more dots ticking each with a chance to proc darklight.

- - - Updated - - -

It appears that it does proc off of MF/Insanity/Mind Sear/Searing Insanity, but at a much lesser rate.

Exmaple

I can't play AS because my set for it is so bad. I'm geared all mastery atm, not even hitting 20% crit anymore in my AS set since I regeared all my gems/enchants and new ilvl upgrades toward CoP. I am treating AS as my offspec atm, slowly gathering pieces to make it viable.

That said, my guild just downed Heroic Iskar and I had a fair amount of time to experiment during our progression on it. I used Prophecy of Fear and Unblinking Gaze of Sethe. I was not able to find any rhyme or reason to the proccing of Prophecy of Fear, no matter what I did. Its proc rate is incredibly inconsistent, as was noticed by both myself and our arcane mage who was also using it. Whether you get back-to-back procs for spammable Doom Nova or a total dry spell throughout the entirety of the fight seems totally beyond your control. It is not something you should depend on.

I tried just regular AoEing the mob packs with cascade and searing insanity, and I also tried what you suggested and multidotted all the adds with shadow word-pain. (Recall that I am CoP) Neither of these seemed to proc the Prophecy of Fear any more than the other; still seemed 100% random. Although obviously, multidotting the add packs as CoP gimped my DPS. I concluded that multidotting as CoP in an attempt to encourage Prophecy to proc is not worth the risk.

However...I did notice something about sw-pain and Doom Nova. When I had the mark pop up on a mob in an AoE pack, I began spamming sw-pain and mind blast to trigger the explosions to the rest of the pack. Whichever mob the first mark popped up on was random; it tended to pop up on some background mob that was getting mind seared more often than it would pop up on my primary target. When I got a back-to-back second mark popping up though, it was always on the primary target that I was spamming sw-pain on. So there may be some truth to sw-pain/direct damage having a slightly higher chance to create a mark debuff than just regular aoe. Either that or the trinket is programmed to re-pop the mark on the same target if it pops up while one is already up.

As for the Sethe trinket, I'm not sure how to interpret my results vs yours to see which procced the trinket more (my COP ms:insanity vs your AS multidot). I think yours did very slightly more. Here's me on Iskar tonight: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=11

I out-DPSed dj on Iskar by a little bit tonight with me using COP and him with AS...however, look how much of my dmg was done by Doom Nova, which he doesn't have yet. He is probably right that AS is better than COP, but the Prophecy of Fear just made that much of a difference. An AS spriest can easily get the same AoE results out of the trinket as a COP user.

[Djriff]

When i was talking about multidotting everything, it was for the seethe trinket. If you are CoP i would not do that as it's a DPS loss.

[Deleted]

Could someone with PoF post CoP single target log?

[Deleted]

Can someone tell me which trinkets i should use for CoP and for AS with 6.2?

I am still using AS with just Goren soul (chance to get 2.4k crit for 10sec) with Darmac unstable talisaman (2.4k haste for 10sec..)

Should I get something else for AS in this patcH? I have Desecrated shadowmoon insigna /(1.2k int for 20sec) and Chipped soul prism, which is like 187 of all stats atm.

[Regia]

Could someone with PoF post CoP single target log?

Here's Norm Iron Reaver with PoF: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=7
Reaver isn't really a patchwerk type fight because of the amount of movement...but as you can see it did quite horribly, so I stopped using it after that..thus I don't have any other singletarget fights with it for you to look at.

[Deleted]

Here's Norm Iron Reaver with PoF: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=7
Reaver isn't really a patchwerk type fight because of the amount of movement...but as you can see it did quite horribly, so I stopped using it after that..thus I don't have any other singletarget fights with it for you to look at.

I think you were rly unlucky with procs. Also you were using many spells that doesn't proc the Doomnova when trinket was up.

I have to choose which trinket is BiS for me, can't really roll for everything

[Dierdre]

I think you were rly unlucky with procs.

That's what I like about Iron Reaver piston, it's consistent and reliable.

[Regia]

I think you were rly unlucky with procs. Also you were using many spells that doesn't proc the Doomnova when trinket was up.

I have to choose which trinket is BiS for me, can't really roll for everything

Because it was a singletarget fight, I couldn't spam the instant-cast tick from SWP as that would have been a DPS loss. The only thing you can really do with PoF in singletarget is try to mind spike and mind blast as if you were building orbs. So that's why I wasn't really spamming the Doom Nova when I had it.

[Kilee25]

The difference between casting MS and DoTWeaving is way smaller than most people think. It would probably be a DPS increase to immediately stop DoTWeaving, cut off dots, and go into an "orb building" sequence until the debuff is finished.

[Deleted]

Because it was a singletarget fight, I couldn't spam the instant-cast tick from SWP as that would have been a DPS loss. The only thing you can really do with PoF in singletarget is try to mind spike and mind blast as if you were building orbs. So that's why I wasn't really spamming the Doom Nova when I had it.

Yes you should go to MS/MB immediately.

Also today I had a chance to try the trinket and it did 10k dmg per tick, while for mage it did 17k dmg per tick in average, sometimes 25k... How is this possible ? I gave the trinket to Moonkin later

[Kulle]

Why would you give Prophecy of Fear to a moonkin? that trinket is terrible for them.