No New Ops In Fallen Empire

[iceberg265]

http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations...-fallen-empire

/subscription canceled.

[quras]

http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations...-fallen-empire

/subscription canceled.

That is highly disappointing.

[Edge-]

That's kinda surprising, was expecting at least one. Interesting to see them add so many solo/tactical flashpoints, though, I guess they're taking the whole solo/small group experience stuff pretty seriously.

Seems like they're making a big pivot away from the traditional second generation design and more towards one that supports a much more flexible approach to progression with a greater emphasis on story/solo/small group play.

I actually kinda really like this, especially as I've never bothered to try an operation, having this much more flexibility to avoid wasting time on sidequests and doing other solo/group content is nice.

Though I'm curious to see the reception of this, because we all remember what happened when they initially launched with minimal raid content to support max level players. They're going to need to have a pretty robust non-raiding batch of content/progression systems to keep people occupied.

[Darth Belichick]

Personally, I'm OK with it because I didn't really plan to do any kind of operations. However, a lot of people are going to be disappointed, and I'm kind of surprised to be honest.

[quras]

That's kinda surprising, was expecting at least one. SNIP....

After reading this I was expecting at least one myself.

Why so long between Operations?
Looking ahead at the project plan they knew this was going to be a problem. However they only had two options that they could realistically go with. The first was to release an operation before the expansion, but have it quickly become obsolete come 3.0, and only have one operation available with 3.0. Or they could wait and have two for 3.0 but have a really long time without anything. It was really crappy and high end PVErs got "f*****". It is something that they don't want to ever do again (have that much time between operations).

I don't think I can pay a $15 a month sub fee for a single player game that thinks 1 year to 3 year old content is somehow new and entertaining simply because they put new loot at the end of it.

SNIP...

Though I'm curious to see the reception of this, because we all remember what happened when they initially launched with minimal raid content to support max level players. They're going to need to have a pretty robust non-raiding batch of content/progression systems to keep people occupied.

SWTOR went F2P faster than any game in history because they relied to much on story and not enough on end game group content.

Looks like they are making the same mistake twice.

[Darth Belichick]

I don't think I can pay a $15 a month sub fee for a single player game that thinks 1 year to 3 year old content is somehow new and entertaining simply because they put new loot at the end of it.

I think what you're gonna see is people sub for a month and do all the new story content that gets released, and then unsub once their done with it. I'm not going to do mad dailies at max level if it's not helping me achieve a new raid. And why the hell would someone want to rerun the same freaking raids as ("current content") that they spent months on a while back.

And while I love the idea of story driven, it really doesn't seem like a smart decision to not have a new Op.

[Edge-]

SWTOR went F2P faster than any game in history because they relied to much on story and not enough on end game group content.

Looks like they are making the same mistake twice.

Yeah, I mean, they needed to put more emphasis on story, but not at the cost of the MMO elements. It was the shift from a pure focus on story to putting a ton more effort into the MMO elements of the game that helped them turn things around and become a stable, successful MMO. It kinda feels like they're repeating events of launch all over again, but just hoping that a few years of old content will be enough for folks. It will definitely help fill the gaps, but I'd be surprised if that alone makes up for the lack of new operations etc.

Don't get me wrong, story can and does work. TSW (which did transition, but largely for reasons wholly unrelated to the story focus) and GW2 have found a balance between story and MMO focus with their games and have enjoyed relative success/stability so far. And I think SWTOR has been doing an alright job of it in terms of delivering story alongside MMO elements. But really, 8 individual storylines is not fucking sustainable in terms of finances. It's just not. That's so much time wasted on content that the majority of folks will simply never see.

[Treeba]

I don't really think this is surprising at all. The only thing I'm surprised (and a little disappointed) was that they didn't offer a solo-ops mode where you go in with several companions and clear it. Sorta like the Revan fight with all the big name NPCs.

They won't even do 8 class stories again simply because it takes too long to develop. I doubt KotFE has more than a small number of class specific quests... most of it will be the same playthrough, but your past choices will actually change the way the game plays. We'll have to see how big a difference those choices actually make.

I also doubt they made this decision lightly. I'm sure their numbers tell them there are very few raid guilds who are interested in real progression raiding. Most people will be happy to get together with 7 of their friends and raid whatever. People who care deeply about raiding aren't playing SWTOR to begin with. Hell in the past few months they've lost several of the biggest/best raiding guilds to other games. They know this will cause them to lose more, but it will be small and probably easily countered by the people who will renew to play through the new story a few times.

[quras]

Yea, I think the SWTOR story does work. It works better than any other MMO on the market when it comes to their class stories if you ask me.

BUT, what we learned at the launch of SWTOR is that cannot be it's only solid hook. If it is, gamers will leave. The limited amount of end game group content when SWTOR launched is what mainly made it go F2P so fast.

BW is now doing that again. Where for the past while we have had a decent balance, they are now leaning once again, to heavily on story alone. It's like they learned nothing even after telling us, they made a mistake in how quickly gamers would consume the class stories. They underestimated consumption rates. BW didn't prepare enough endgame content fast enough. The game suffered for it.

Now their making that very same mistake again. Thinking that story alone will carry the game along with thinking some extremely old OPS with a new loot table will fill the left out MMO content gap.

Whats the great line in SW?

I have a bad feeling about this.

SNIP...
I also doubt they made this decision lightly. I'm sure their numbers tell them there are very few raid guilds who are interested in real progression raiding.

SNIP...

I would agree with you about progression. It's a limited number but I have no doubt SM OPS are run heavily by many. Especially on JC server. Problem is, the content is old and few want to run the entire thing and wait till they can get onto a group that does the last boss only. Old content is old and SWTOR has nothing but old content now. Come Oct and months after. That Sh-it will really be old no matter what loot table is at the end of it.

[Courierrawr]

I'm kinda okay with this, first time I played this game was at launch for about three months, only got to partially progress through the first OP(s) they released, I just came back at the beginning of July and have noticed I missed a ton of content, being able to play through most of what I missed @ lvl 65 will be nice.

[xuros]

Well now...... Guess I will be ending my Sub! Fuck you Bioware! If i wanted to play a Single player game I would pick up the FF7 revamp. Guess I'll be resubbing to FF14.


SIGH so much umph wasted. This game could have shinned with a great OP at or very close to release.

Although these pics do look amazing http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-...9?sf39292924=1

[Itisamuh]

I think it is a bit unfair to look at this as them making the same mistake twice, or even making a mistake at all for that matter. Rather they doing what more companies out there need to do, which is catering to their core audience. They know an enormous chunk of their players wanted the game to be a more direct sequel to the old single player games, and that the majority of those looking for a massive online group grind would have gone back to a certain other game anyway. I do have to wonder how they plan to keep people subscribed long term with this model, but at least the option is there to play without subscribing.

[Treeba]

. Hell, even WoW is moving in this same direction with Timewalking, Mythic Dungeons and the anniversary MC raid. We just can't keep expecting these games to devote so many resources to multi-player content that trivializes itself ever time they add some new multi-player content. I'm sure there will be new endgame content inevitably, it just had to take a backseat to getting the systems to keep it relevant forever in place.

I don't know that that's a fair interpretation of what Blizzard is doing. If anything I'd say they are actually doubling-down on raiding. WoD's biggest issue is that it's too raid or die. The raiding is fantastic, and unmatched in terms of quality, but everything else is weak. The other advantage WoW has with its raiding is that it remains interesting content long after it's old. People who couldn't raid it when it was current come back and farm old raids for mounts, titles, achievements, and now pets. Look at Black Temple... it hasn't been a current tier raid in well over 6 years, but it still gets used a great deal. People come for the legendaries, the transmog, the pets for the raiding with leashes achievements, nostaglia, etc. KT inside Tempest Keep is another good example. 6+ years later people still farm him every week for the mount.

The limited amount of end game group content when SWTOR launched is what mainly made it go F2P so fast.

It certainly didn't help, but the game had other bigger issues imo. It launched ~6 months prematurely. It was bug-ridden, the ability delay issues were serious, and it lacked basically all modern mmo conveniences. There was no group finder, no ranked pvp, no organized pvp, Ilum was a giant lagfest joke, the last boss in Boarding Party was virtually unkillable unless you rez-zerged it, no cross-server (ha), and they panicked at launch and opened probably 30-40 servers more than they needed.

If it had launched with only EV, but those other issues didn't exist I think people would've stuck around and given it a chance. I don't think it would've mattered if they waited and launched with a full KP or even EC. The rest of the game was still buggy and lacking important features. They just needed several more months of player testing, bug fixing, and game development.

[Hellravager]

I'm okay with it as you saw by what they're doing if they can deliver it all then it FAR FAR FAR out beats one op your just going to do once and then unsub

[magicric]

I am very disappointed that we aren't getting any new ops. I fear for the PvP community also as it seems like it will get ignored again. In saying that, if they fix their buggy as fuck engine and do the level 65 ops right it might not be so bad.

[karumayu]

Although I do feel for the few players who was expecting a new Op int he new expansion, I'm OK with this. Raiding or endgame content just do not have the same appeal to me it once had. Instead I'm more than content with getting monthly story progression in form of chapters where it pushes the story steadily forward. However this is a bold move, and as I applaud them for focusing on their core market segment, it is always smart not to alienate some of your subscribers. Hopefully the rewards provide a decent incentive for the raiders to play through the revamped OPs.

[Aberrict]

I'm fine with this. I ran a few of the older Operations with my guild, but I didn't really enjoy them. What I really want is story, story, story, and I hope Bioware can deliver like they say they will.

[Chickat]

For a player that never made it to end game, this is amazing for me. I will get to experience it all while leveling and at max level. I just hope they add more in later months.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm fine with this. I ran a few of the older Operations with my guild, but I didn't really enjoy them. What I really want is story, story, story, and I hope Bioware can deliver like they say they will.

How much story did they say will be coming and how often? I know they said this expansion will be a big story one, but thats all ive heard. Any blogs or sites with more info on the story or just more info in general.

[Aberrict]

How much story did they say will be coming and how often? I know they said this expansion will be a big story one, but thats all ive heard. Any blogs or sites with more info on the story or just more info in general.

Originally Posted by SWTOR

7. When will Chapters be released?
Knights of the Fallen Empire will launch with the first 9 episodic Chapters of the story. The remaining chapters will be released monthly starting in early 2016.

Source

The question is how long is one chapter?

Edit: We do know there are 16 chapters. The first 11 have titles.

[Morbownz]

Then what will be the point of making your character more powerful? If I am able to complete the entire story of the next expansion in gear that my character is wearing now, I don't see any appeal at all. I don't see the point of even have talent choices or a spell book. I like the questing in SW:ToR, but the gameplay during those moments is pretty weak, I can remember plots but not a single encounter.