No New Ops In Fallen Empire

[Super Kami Dende]

though having no new ops is a bit shitty, having a metric fuckton of FP's at 65 is pretty cool. Since it will give more variety than just 4 hard modes.

I prefer small group content anyway.

[quras]

though having no new ops is a bit shitty, having a metric fuckton of FP's at 65 is pretty cool. Since it will give more variety than just 4 hard modes.

I prefer small group content anyway.

I'm with you on that too. I do love a good ops but I prefer 8 over 16 but just how many times am I suppose to run those? I completed them when they actually did offer a challenge and we didn't know what to expect. Now, nothing will be a surprise other than story but we'll blast through that.

The bulk of them 4 years old and came out when the game launched. That crap is getting old and no matter what level it gets raised to, they will be the same FP's we had with no added difficulty. We completed those in HM ages ago, relying on rehashed content that is as old as that to keep player retention seems to be a long shot I'm surprised they are taking.

I can't believe they went the "lets rehash every FP and OPS" path.

[kenn9530]

Originally Posted by SWTOR

We know that many players love our Operations and look forward to the introduction of new challenges, however with Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations.

Whether this means at all or at launch is to be seen, but from the way it's worded and the content schedule they've super loosely outlined, it seems like there will be none at all.

So unless they're going to rapid fire those patches out, people are going to run out of stuff to do pretty quick : /

you do realize that 90% of the playerbase will barely even touch OPs, the only people who think they will run out of things to do is people who only do OPs, chances are they will release an OPs anyway after a few months but since casual players are the majority its better to create content for the mass instead of a minority.

[xuros]

you do realize that 90% of the playerbase will barely even touch OPs, the only people who think they will run out of things to do is people who only do OPs, chances are they will release an OPs anyway after a few months but since casual players are the majority its better to create content for the mass instead of a minority.

Where did you pull that 90% from???? Ops hold a lot of people in since they prefer the raids here over other games. To exlcude them is going to fuck this game over. 90% lololololololol......sure thing pal!

Oh and the instead of the minority is racist!!!! (lol)

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I'm with you on that too. I do love a good ops but I prefer 8 over 16 but just how many times am I suppose to run those? I completed them when they actually did offer a challenge and we didn't know what to expect. Now, nothing will be a surprise other than story but we'll blast through that.

The bulk of them 4 years old and came out when the game launched. That crap is getting old and no matter what level it gets raised to, they will be the same FP's we had with no added difficulty. We completed those in HM ages ago, relying on rehashed content that is as old as that to keep player retention seems to be a long shot I'm surprised they are taking.

I can't believe they went the "lets rehash every FP and OPS" path.

The rehash ops thing is fucking lazy, nothing less than lazy. WoD was done lazy and look at howmany people are bitching and leaving. FFXIV should be getting some new blood soon.

[Aberrict]

Any word on how many Flashpoints will be coming?

[quras]

Any word on how many Flashpoints will be coming?

ZERO new FPs. ZERO new OPS. We may not see anything new for end game group content until 2016. Choose a month and hope because BW is being hush hush if and when.

once you go through the story you will either do it again since it is once again a one story for everyone but this time it will have more flavorful choices that make more of a difference.

Or you will grind rep and possible different companions since there is something going on about losing companions.

Or you will run the same FP and OPS that have been around from the games launch till last December but BW decided to grace you by putting them all at max level if you care to continue to do them for the their new loot list added to them. Over all it will be some very old content come Oct 27 unless you were one of those gamers that just didn't do them but at that point. It would all be new anyway.

BW creates the best stories. It will be entertaining and Strong one story for all. Very mediocre end game with barely anything new that you expect from an expansion.

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The rehash ops thing is fucking lazy, nothing less than lazy. WoD was done lazy and look at howmany people are bitching and leaving. FFXIV should be getting some new blood soon.

It is lazy. It's possible some might move to FF.

I'll continue to play both FF and SWTOR.

SW just has great story telling that miles above the other MMOs. The next expansion will be no different. Once I reach end game though. Who knows. I hope BW does something or plans to do something before I reach that point because running all those extremely old rehashed OPS doesn't make me the least bit excited.

[Darth Belichick]

Real quick, as I don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into a FF thread: how is FF right now? I played it at launch and maxed a character, but quit because the raiding wasn't very polished and didn't have much in terms of bosses. Just HMs of things I'd already killed and I did kill a couple of them.

How hard would it be to get back into it?

[quras]

Real quick, as I don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into a FF thread: how is FF right now? I played it at launch and maxed a character, but quit because the raiding wasn't very polished and didn't have much in terms of bosses. Just HMs of things I'd already killed and I did kill a couple of them.

How hard would it be to get back into it?

I don't think it would be hard to get back into. Heavensward expansion is pretty nice. You can even get flying like you used to in wow.

[Super Kami Dende]

Real quick, as I don't want to hijack the thread and turn it into a FF thread: how is FF right now? I played it at launch and maxed a character, but quit because the raiding wasn't very polished and didn't have much in terms of bosses. Just HMs of things I'd already killed and I did kill a couple of them.

How hard would it be to get back into it?

FFXIV is a pretty good game, except they have a massive GCD on all attacks and the combat feels slow as shit compared to all other Actionbar MMO's. literally the only reason I stopped playing it since 30APM is just yawn-worthy.

[kenn9530]

Where did you pull that 90% from???? Ops hold a lot of people in since they prefer the raids here over other games. To exlcude them is going to fuck this game over. 90% lololololololol......sure thing pal!

Oh and the instead of the minority is racist!!!! (lol)

The rehash ops thing is fucking lazy, nothing less than lazy. WoD was done lazy and look at howmany people are bitching and leaving. FFXIV should be getting some new blood soon.

Raiding/Ops has always been for the small portion of the playerbase, SWTOR is no different than WoW in that respect where less than 10% participate in proper raiding, while a new OPs is always nice its not exactly adding that much content to the game in reality, chances are there will be a new OPs in the expansion at some point though. While there are no numbers like on wow progress to check OPs participation its highly likely the percentage of players remain the same as WoW who take part in it.

If your into raiding most likely your going to choose WoW over SWTOR, the difficulty in SWTOR for OPs is far less than that of WoWs.

What SWTOR does best is the story driven content, Ops adds a little more to the story but it can all be tied in with the solo flashpoints, Once you have completed an OPs on the hardest setting that's it effectively finished, all your doing after that is farming gear.

Casuals will maybe pop in story mode now and then but mostly for the continuation of the story.

Plus raiding is kinda getting an old measure for end game content, there should be something that can be done through constant story missions being added, that progresses your character through gear upgrades or something to that effect.

SWTOR was done to similar to WoW, i would of loved many aspects of galaxies to have been used, like player built cities and possible exploration to learn new techniques of the force on large open worlds.

[quras]

Raiding/Ops has always been for the small portion of the playerbase, SWTOR is no different than WoW in that respect where less than 10% participate in proper raiding, while a new OPs is always nice its not exactly adding that much content to the game in reality, chances are there will be a new OPs in the expansion at some point though. While there are no numbers like on wow progress to check OPs participation its highly likely the percentage of players remain the same as WoW who take part in it.

Oh I think you are highly mistake on that. You might have some basis to claim a low percent for progression but casual raiding in SWTOR is huge. I mean SM content and FP's.

That number I'd guess would be upwards of 40-50% hitting SM content off and on. I know on JC there is not a day goes by PUGS are not running pick raids in fleet chat for group finder. Every single day. It's not progression raiding but its raiding none the less.

I'd bet numbers are similar to wow in reguards to what gamers step a foot into some kind of OPS. And thats a pretty high number.

If your into raiding most likely your going to choose WoW over SWTOR, the difficulty in SWTOR for OPs is far less than that of WoWs.

If you think that then you haven't done SWTOR raids. We consistently get gamers that say most of wow and SWTOR are equal but one or two bosses from either side is harder then the other. However, the higher the difficulty we try them at in SWTOR, they tend to be harder here than in wow.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me wow was harder overall. Equal but not oh so more difficult.

What SWTOR does best is the story driven content, Ops adds a little more to the story but it can all be tied in with the solo flashpoints, Once you have completed an OPs on the hardest setting that's it effectively finished, all your doing after that is farming gear.

Thats what every MMO offers in some way or another. Once you are done with story and done the end game group content. All you do is do it again for gear and to have a bit of fun with friends. You might have some rep grind or something but those are rarely fun no matter the game.

[TeeZed]

It's fine for me because I didn't do any of the old raids on level so now I can experience them again at 65, and do some new flashpoints as well, plus i'm not even paying for the content other than my subscription.

[Treeba]

You'd be hard pressed to convince me wow was harder overall. Equal but not oh so more difficult.

Honest question that I don't mean to be antagonizing in anyway. Are you even open to being convinced? I mean probably 99% of the people who come to these forums (myself included) don't come here open to being convinced. They have preformed ideas, right or wrong, and mostly they just come here to express those opinions.

I won't continue to have the same argument about WoW vs. SWTOR raiding with you (there isn't much point if we're honest), but I can put you in touch with people who ran Death and Taxes in SWTOR. Ask them how they feel about the hardest bosses SWTOR had to offer vs. the bosses they are currently fighting in WoW. I think you might be surprised. You could try finding the Zorz people as well, but I think their WoW guild died already.

[quras]

Honest question that I don't mean to be antagonizing in anyway. Are you even open to being convinced? I mean probably 99% of the people who come to these forums (myself included) don't come here open to being convinced. They have preformed ideas, right or wrong, and mostly they just come here to express those opinions.

I am very open to it but in this case I have played both contents in raiding or currently play with people that do both. There pretty equal given various bosses are harder or easier in one game or the other. Overall, still pretty on par. Claiming one was was much harder than the other would be a poor argument in my eye.

I won't continue to have the same argument about WoW vs. SWTOR raiding with you (there isn't much point if we're honest), but I can put you in touch with people who ran Death and Taxes in SWTOR. Ask them how they feel about the hardest bosses SWTOR had to offer vs. the bosses they are currently fighting in WoW. I think you might be surprised. You could try finding the Zorz people as well, but I think their WoW guild died already.

I've seen both of those parties. Over the years I've talked to about 18 guilds that do progression raiding. Most in an allies situation were communication was easy enough. I've tried to keep up because I was a wow player for so long. Even with the difference of opinions on what bosses they like and didn't or what game they preferred over the other. It was always pretty even when you worked though the noise and banter. A lot of tit for tat that ended up being pretty even for the most part.

However, with SW currently kill progression. It leaves little choice for progression raiders either way. If it's between wow or SW. You're going to wow. SW will not have anything for you. It will have an amazing story and end game group content that has been rehashed from the pool of content from 1 year ago to 4 years ago.

It's fine for me because I didn't do any of the old raids on level so now I can experience them again at 65, and do some new flashpoints as well, plus i'm not even paying for the content other than my subscription.

I think they are banking a lot of players like you.

Sadly, I'm not one of them.

[Sills]

In the years that I have played this game I have never once set foot in an OP. While I can understand why people are upset, for me this is all about the storylines. mmmmm give me that story!

[felix8024]

First, BW knows how many people are doing Op how often and for how long. Apparently, the numbers are not as big as to risk not preparing OP`s and get a large outflow of players.
Second, BW preparing ground for massive wave of new members after Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens hit the cinemas. It wouldn't be a big deal if movie would be same peace of shit what George lucas did lately. But as far as i know we should expect great movie and back to the roots. if the film earns a lot of money, it will be another and another (Movie about Han Solo, movie about Boba Fet, another episode etc.) so fan base will be growing premier after premier.

[kenn9530]

Oh I think you are highly mistake on that. You might have some basis to claim a low percent for progression but casual raiding in SWTOR is huge. I mean SM content and FP's.

That number I'd guess would be upwards of 40-50% hitting SM content off and on. I know on JC there is not a day goes by PUGS are not running pick raids in fleet chat for group finder. Every single day. It's not progression raiding but its raiding none the less.

I'd bet numbers are similar to wow in reguards to what gamers step a foot into some kind of OPS. And thats a pretty high number.



If you think that then you haven't done SWTOR raids. We consistently get gamers that say most of wow and SWTOR are equal but one or two bosses from either side is harder then the other. However, the higher the difficulty we try them at in SWTOR, they tend to be harder here than in wow.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me wow was harder overall. Equal but not oh so more difficult.



Thats what every MMO offers in some way or another. Once you are done with story and done the end game group content. All you do is do it again for gear and to have a bit of fun with friends. You might have some rep grind or something but those are rarely fun no matter the game.

just like lfr in WoW SM is not proper raiding, casual players only mainly do the OPs for the story at first, then they keep doing it for comms/better gear, proper raiding is a guild organized event, casual players much prefer the smaller FPs but since OPs are easily accessible then everyone may aswell take part in at least the story mode, but not adding a new OP at release in the new expansion won't really matter much to most of the playerbase. Normal entry OPs participation will be no more than 20% representation and thats being generous with HM/NiM being close or under 10% overall. Its also impossible to tell on participation on SM/lfr/normal as its just all just an educated guess with no real facts baking it up.

In SWTOR i have raided nightmare content at the time it was current, in WoW i have participated in realm first progression and cutting edge kills, the fights in WoW are tuned much harder due to the availability to addons which aid in perfect timing on dealing with encounter mechanics, SWTOR has a much simpler design making the fights much easier, the fights are still fun and interesting but they are more inline with heroic difficulty on nightmare rather than equal to mythic.

here are the stats for WoW to show some perspective, 13471 guild killed 1st mythic boss 1st tier so thats 269k players = 4% total playerbase, 40611 guilds killed very first boss on heroic which is lowest recorded, which if on average you go by 20 players also per guild bearing in mind most will be doing 10 man size raids in heroic, thats around the 12% players base mark bearing in mind also this is the easiest and 1st boss available, each tier above that the representation halves in size.

The only players that may have an issue with no new Ops on release is a player that participates in guild organized raids, for those mainly doing it for the rewards it won't matter so much, its always nice to have new OPs but the thing SWTOR does best is the story experience.

Personally i believe it should follow what it does best and focus on the character and small group driven content, the devs are the only ones who really know how many participate in OPs so its safe to assume not releasing a new OPs at least on release serves pleasing the larger portion of the playerbase with what they want, and that's the focus on story driven class missions as this is what the game does the best.

[xuros]

Raiding/Ops has always been for the small portion of the playerbase, SWTOR is no different than WoW in that respect where less than 10% participate in proper raiding, while a new OPs is always nice its not exactly adding that much content to the game in reality, chances are there will be a new OPs in the expansion at some point though. While there are no numbers like on wow progress to check OPs participation its highly likely the percentage of players remain the same as WoW who take part in it.

If your into raiding most likely your going to choose WoW over SWTOR, the difficulty in SWTOR for OPs is far less than that of WoWs.

What SWTOR does best is the story driven content, Ops adds a little more to the story but it can all be tied in with the solo flashpoints, Once you have completed an OPs on the hardest setting that's it effectively finished, all your doing after that is farming gear.

Casuals will maybe pop in story mode now and then but mostly for the continuation of the story.

Plus raiding is kinda getting an old measure for end game content, there should be something that can be done through constant story missions being added, that progresses your character through gear upgrades or something to that effect.

SWTOR was done to similar to WoW, i would of loved many aspects of galaxies to have been used, like player built cities and possible exploration to learn new techniques of the force on large open worlds.

To say only 10% raid and not having numbers is meh at best. Many guilds do ops. Even if they are not hardcore clear in one night guilds, many still do them. The reason it seems so little raid is the success rate the lower end guilds have. People only list the guilds that CLEAR content, rarely ever do you see a listing of guilds that come out server 5th or 50th. Hell in wow the only time you see these are on wow progress and do you even notice these guys unless you are in one of those? People take note of uber world first cleared in 2 week guild but never the guild that wipes for months on HM SoA.

People like my 60+ year dad and mom who are a bit antisocial in MMOs because they prefer to play together or have my carry their undergeared alts in instances don't raid. Some folks dont have much time to so they do not raid. Lots of others though get bored as fuck doing dailys for weeks to get a piece of gear that has no set bonus or a means to make their toons more powerful quickly so those do raid with hopes of getting the amazing weapon or token for the tier.

Its just the way things are. So yeah, 10% is not a realistic number by far.

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just like lfr in WoW SM is not proper raiding, casual players only mainly do the OPs for the story at first, then they keep doing it for comms/better gear, proper raiding is a guild organized event, casual players much prefer the smaller FPs but since OPs are easily accessible then everyone may aswell take part in at least the story mode, but not adding a new OP at release in the new expansion won't really matter much to most of the playerbase. Normal entry OPs participation will be no more than 20% representation and thats being generous with HM/NiM being close or under 10% overall. Its also impossible to tell on participation on SM/lfr/normal as its just all just an educated guess with no real facts baking it up.

In SWTOR i have raided nightmare content at the time it was current, in WoW i have participated in realm first progression and cutting edge kills, the fights in WoW are tuned much harder due to the availability to addons which aid in perfect timing on dealing with encounter mechanics, SWTOR has a much simpler design making the fights much easier, the fights are still fun and interesting but they are more inline with heroic difficulty on nightmare rather than equal to mythic.

here are the stats for WoW to show some perspective, 13471 guild killed 1st mythic boss 1st tier so thats 269k players = 4% total playerbase, 40611 guilds killed very first boss on heroic which is lowest recorded, which if on average you go by 20 players also per guild bearing in mind most will be doing 10 man size raids in heroic, thats around the 12% players base mark bearing in mind also this is the easiest and 1st boss available, each tier above that the representation halves in size.

The only players that may have an issue with no new Ops on release is a player that participates in guild organized raids, for those mainly doing it for the rewards it won't matter so much, its always nice to have new OPs but the thing SWTOR does best is the story experience.

Personally i believe it should follow what it does best and focus on the character and small group driven content, the devs are the only ones who really know how many participate in OPs so its safe to assume not releasing a new OPs at least on release serves pleasing the larger portion of the playerbase with what they want, and that's the focus on story driven class missions as this is what the game does the best.

You cant say people dont raid then say a certain tier of raids "ISNT RAIDING". Doesnt work that way. SM OP in SWTOR is far from LFR in WOW in every way. And just bacuase only 13k have killed one mythic boss doesnt mean they were not beating their heads agaisnt the wall each week trying to. A friend on mines guild worked on Darmac for months before getting the kill. They got Gruul two weeks before 6.2 They raid each week tues,wed,thursday on heroic/mythic and a normal alt run on saturdays.

[kenn9530]

To say only 10% raid and not having numbers is meh at best. Many guilds do ops. Even if they are not hardcore clear in one night guilds, many still do them. The reason it seems so little raid is the success rate the lower end guilds have. People only list the guilds that CLEAR content, rarely ever do you see a listing of guilds that come out server 5th or 50th. Hell in wow the only time you see these are on wow progress and do you even notice these guys unless you are in one of those? People take note of uber world first cleared in 2 week guild but never the guild that wipes for months on HM SoA.

People like my 60+ year dad and mom who are a bit antisocial in MMOs because they prefer to play together or have my carry their undergeared alts in instances don't raid. Some folks dont have much time to so they do not raid. Lots of others though get bored as fuck doing dailys for weeks to get a piece of gear that has no set bonus or a means to make their toons more powerful quickly so those do raid with hopes of getting the amazing weapon or token for the tier.

Its just the way things are. So yeah, 10% is not a realistic number by far.

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You cant say people dont raid then say a certain tier of raids "ISNT RAIDING". Doesnt work that way. SM OP in SWTOR is far from LFR in WOW in every way. And just bacuase only 13k have killed one mythic boss doesnt mean they were not beating their heads agaisnt the wall each week trying to. A friend on mines guild worked on Darmac for months before getting the kill. They got Gruul two weeks before 6.2 They raid each week tues,wed,thursday on heroic/mythic and a normal alt run on saturdays.

Since the devs don't publish these numbers you or I are unable to provide actual factual evidence to support either of our claims, but since SWTOR and WoW are essentially the same game its a safe bet the numbers are similar especially in current content, i pulled numbers from WoW from the first raids which gives a good basis on how much of the population actually raids.

SM/LFR only serve the purpose of seeing the story nothing else, they require no effort at all and therfor are irrelevant, if they were not ingame the it wouldn't matter at all to the players who actual use the content as it wouldn't be available in the first place, also since the numbers for WoW and SWTOR are not shown then its another reason why you can't count it, as everything you say about the participation on these difficulties is entirely speculation and nothing else. Plus another fact is we don't even know how many subs are even in SWTOR currently, the raiding community is made up of subs, also a good portion of those subs will solely PvP, so we could get a better read on things if we has sub numbers and numbers of people who log in on a weekly basis.

[Naxere]

As a filthy casual that has never run a single Operation since the game went live, doesn't really bother me.