2,000 Moldovans and Romanians call for reunification (GGT)

[GennGreymane]

2,000 Moldovans and Romanians call for reunification, scatter flowers over river border

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/wo...r-river-border

CHISINAU, Moldova — About 2,000 Moldovans and Romanians have called for their countries to be reunited, throwing flowers onto a river separating the two countries.

Mouldovans gathered in the southern village of Ungheni on Saturday and shouted “Unification!” Romanians rallied on the other bank of the Prut river.

Some people crossed the border from both sides to demonstrate friendship.

Moldova, an ex-Soviet republic, was part of Romania between 1918 and 1940. They both speak Romanian.

Thousands have rallied in the Moldovan capital in recent months calling for reunification. Moldova signed an association agreement with the European Union last year, angering Russia.

Romania, already an EU member, is a strong supporter of Moldova’s ambition to join the bloc.

The ceremony at the Prut river has been taking place annually for 20 years.

[Mihalik]

Meh.

Nobody cares.

Moldova is dirt poor, has a territorial dispute with Russia and it falls into what the Russians consider their sphere of influence. While Romania is better off than Moldova it is sure as hell can't absorbing Moldova's financial and political woes, and would most likely face significant EU opposition to any such ideas.

Tho to be honest, it would never really come to that as Romanians themselves would be unlikely to be in favor of assuming the cost of reunification anyways.

[Deleted]

I live in Europe and didn't even realise Moldova was a country.

Damn that place is tiny, it has a smaller population than a medium sized UK city.

[kaelix1]

Never gone happen, the Russians will do everything they can to stop the reunification, and without been rude to my brothers from Moldova, why should we reunite? Romania is slowly fixing the economy problems, a reunification at the moment would be a financial disaster

[Deleted]

and it falls into what the Russians consider their sphere of influence.

Nobody cares about Russia's sphere of influence... it might've been important during the cold war, but now?

Anyhow, I doubt Moldovan and Romanian reunification will happen. Romania doesn't want to annex Moldova because Moldova is shit poor. And if Moldova actually develops and becomes a prosperous country chances are it'll want to remain independent, since it doesn't have any use for joining Romania..

[Deleted]

To add something, Moldova as a state today was also part of a Romanian country named Moldova before 1812, when it was taken by the Russian Empire.
You see, in that time, Moldova and Wallachia (the 2 states that would form Little Romania later) were client states of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire fought with the Russian Empire and was losing. They thought Russia would ask for the entire Moldova, but the chance was that Napoleon attacked Russia so Russia had to march its troops towards the French. They tricked the Ottomans into believing they were making them a favour in taking so little, and taking from a client state, not the Ottoman Empire territory itself and the Ottomans, not knowing of the French, fell for it and forced Moldova to give the region, called Basarabia, to the Russian Empire.

Anyway, later on Romania was attributed the southern part of Basarabia back to act as a state to keep the Russian Empire and the Ottomans from battling all the time. In the war of 1877, Russia decided to again attack the Ottomans and Romania helped and achieved independence from the Ottoman Empire. However, Russia gave Romania Dobrogea and took back southern Basarabia again.

In 1917, amidst the Russian communist revolution, Romanian rebels decided to break off from Russia and formed Basarabia. At first they didn't want to reunite with Romania (due to the fact that Romania was kind of still at war with the Central powers, not because they didn't want unification) However, when Ukranian troops wanted to force Basarabia into Ukraine, they voted to reunite with Romania and asked for Romania's help. As WW1 had ended, Romania sent troops and secured Basarabia against Ukraine.
In USSR had already absorbed back most of the countries that had broken off from them in WW1, and they gave Romania an ultimatum: give Basarabia and Northen Bukovina or risk war. Romania turned to Germany for help, but Germany said to give them what they wanted. So Basarabia and Northern Bukovina were given to USSR.
Later on this is why Romania joined the Axis, to recover Basarabia. When they crossed into it back when the war started, over 50k people were missing. They had been sent to russian gulags in Siberia to die. Romania hated USSR for that, which is one of the 2 reasons we went all the way to Stalingrad, the other was to win Hitler's favour to give us back North-western Transylvania, which had been taken by Hungary in 1940 as well.

Now, after the breaking of the USSR, the Moldovian Republic was established. Romania had its own kind of civil war still, so we didn't help. The Moldovian Republic is not Basarabia, it's only roughtly 2/3 of it, Southern Basarabia being still part of Ukraine and, unfortunately for both us and Ukraine, having a large Russian population now, many of the Romanians and Ukranians there having been sent to gulags during Stalin's rule. Moldova as a state also doesn't hold Northern Bukovina, which is still part of Ukraine despite still being mostly populated by Romanian people. This, by the way, is why Romania didn't care that much when Ukraine fell into civil war in the last years and while we helped refugees, we didn't give a shit to Ukraine besides words of encouragement.

Anyway, back to the reunification call: It was actually 30k people in Chisinau as well earlier this month. And from the 2000 now, many traveled to Bucharest after the march in Chisinau. Our president however, not caring, left the country and claimed he couldn't meet them. Because he's a populist leader unfortunately.

As for reunification... unlike West Germany, which could support East Germany (as East Germany, while behind the West, was still quite developed), Romania is a country that is the second most poor in the EU, burdened mostly by corruption and ignorance. Moldova is the same, actually even worse as there there's also still communist parties and they have even less stuff to actually make money from (no mountains, no seaside, only wine and agriculture). It's doubtful Romania could support Moldova, let alone raise it to an acceptable level when we're so in shit ourselves.

- - - Updated - - -

Moldova is dirt poor, has a territorial dispute with Russia and it falls into what the Russians consider their sphere of influence.

Just wanted to talk about the so called territorial dispute. It's not a dispute with Russia directly. Again, due to deporting and colonization efforts made by USSR, there's a patch of land over the Nistru (patch which wasn't part of the old Moldova or the old Bassarabia but somehow fell into Moldova's rule after 1991... for some reason) that belongs to Moldova and is occupied mostly by Russian speaking people (probably why Ukraine didn't argue with Moldova over who it belongs to, they knew that region would create issues).
In 1992 the war of Transnistria started, it is a civil war mostly, and Transnistria became controlled by ... transnistrians? It is still tehnically part of Moldova, although it's not controlled by Moldova. They've tried to get independence several times, but failed.

[Deleted]

In 1992 the war of Transnistria started, it is a civil war mostly, and Transnistria became controlled by ... transnistrians? It is still tehnically part of Moldova, although it's not controlled by Moldova. They've tried to get independence several times, but failed.

Why not just let Transnistria have their independence? It's just sounds like trouble having them around..

[ringpriest]

I live in Europe and didn't even realise Moldova was a country.

Damn that place is tiny, it has a smaller population than a medium sized UK city.

Just wanted to talk about the so called territorial dispute. It's not a dispute with Russia directly. Again, due to deporting and colonization efforts made by USSR, there's a patch of land over the Nistru (patch which wasn't part of the old Moldova or the old Bassarabia but somehow fell into Moldova's rule after 1991... for some reason) that belongs to Moldova and is occupied mostly by Russian speaking people (probably why Ukraine didn't argue with Moldova over who it belongs to, they knew that region would create issues).
In 1992 the war of Transnistria started, it is a civil war mostly, and Transnistria became controlled by ... transnistrians? It is still tehnically part of Moldova, although it's not controlled by Moldova. They've tried to get independence several times, but failed.

(Snipped Snowraven's nice history summary to save space, but it was very good, thank you.)

The "breakaway" part of Moldova, Transnistria, is just tiny (population of around half a million); and it's de facto independent already (and has been for years) - in no small part because Russia has maintained a significant military force there (around 1,500 soldiers at present).

[Unionoob]

Why not just let Transnistria have their independence? It's just sounds like trouble having them around..

Well. You could but you have to look on that region population and how it has changed over time. it's more or less same in all ex Sovie Block Countries. Those people who want to get so called independence are Russian minority. during Tsar times and Soviet times many people from Russia where brought in there to mix local population. And when Soviet Union fell Russia agreed to take it's armed forces from those countries if they let so called civilians stay there. And now they are mostly supporters of "Russian World" who want to get "independence". And when you look on main fighting force in Transnistria. Then you can see what that independence actually is meaning. And with giving them independence you endanger Ukraine now even more.

[Sunseeker]

Didn't Moldova want to reunify with Russia?

[Deleted]

Didn't Moldova want to reunify with Russia?

Only if you're a Putinist.

Then again, a Putinist believes EVERYONE wants to unite with great mother Russia.

[Mihalik]

Nobody cares about Russia's sphere of influence... it might've been important during the cold war, but now?

As much as I'd like to say that personally we shouldn't care what Russia considers its sphere of influence, it is pretty self evident that Russia cares enough about its "sphere of influence" to use military force to enforce it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E...ion_in_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...4-9851309.html

As much as I believe that NATO should pursue a much harsher expansionist and isolationist stance towards Russia the realities are that until there is a permanent solution to the Ukrainian conflict we don't need further escalation with Russia. What we should be focused on right now, is helping Ukraine break away from the Russians.

[Kellhound]

(Snipped Snowraven's nice history summary to save space, but it was very good, thank you.)

The "breakaway" part of Moldova, Transnistria, is just tiny (population of around half a million); and it's de facto independent already (and has been for years) - in no small part because Russia has maintained a significant military force there (around 1,500 soldiers at present).

Easy enough to squeeze them out now though.

[Deleted]

and without been rude to my brothers from Moldova, why should we reunite? Romania is slowly fixing the economy problems, a reunification at the moment would be a financial disaster

Because as you so call them, they are your brothers.
Naturally i have nationalism tendencies (its a heart thing rather than a brain thing) but when i see some of my fellow country men its daunting. Not having a spine, not caring about our so called brothers because its hard, cowering before the shadow of other countries and other whore-like characteristics is what got us poor and weak in the first place.

[kaelix1]

Because as you so call them, they are your brothers.
Naturally i have nationalism tendencies (its a heart thing rather than a brain thing) but when i see some of my fellow country men its daunting. Not having a spine, not caring about our so called brothers because its hard, cowering before the shadow of other countries and other whore-like characteristics is what got us poor and weak in the first place.

I agree with your mentality 100%, like you i want a unite and strong Romania, BUT the harsh reality is that we are the second poorest country after Bulgaria in EU, honestly before we think about a unity between Romania and Moldova we should fix our financial problems and other internal problems we have, only then we should start thinking about a reunification, its nothing about cowering before other nations or been spineless, as we are now we can't sustain Moldova.

[Deleted]

Because as you so call them, they are your brothers.
Naturally i have nationalism tendencies (its a heart thing rather than a brain thing) but when i see some of my fellow country men its daunting. Not having a spine, not caring about our so called brothers because its hard, cowering before the shadow of other countries and other whore-like characteristics is what got us poor and weak in the first place.

Nationalism tendencies just don't cut it anymore in the 21st century. Heck, there are still people in Germany who argue about the reunification to this day.
As much as I'd love to, Romania and South Korea will probably never reunite with their counterparts due to economical and ideological issues.
Romanians don't want an economic burden and separatist regions in their country, especially ones that might give hungarians any ideas. Moldavians don't want to reunite with Romania because they're afraid of conflict with Russia and because politicians don't want to give up power.

[Deleted]

I live in Europe and didn't even realise Moldova was a country.

A lot of people don't, some even confuse it with the Moldova region of Romania.
Anyways, just to put it into perspective, it is more likely for Ukraine's Cernivtsi Oblast (Northern Bukovina) to reunite with Romania than Moldova is.
It would be a less financial stain to integrate the region, it is more developed and Russia encourages it.

[Deleted]

Why not just let Transnistria have their independence? It's just sounds like trouble having them around..

Why doesn't Morocco let Western Sahara have its independence? Because they feel that doing so, even if they don't control the area now, is admitting that they failed the people there and it might lead to them being voted out of power. And for politicians, that's all it matters, keeping the reigns of power, even more so in a corrupt country.
There's also the part that the gas pipe from Russia that goes through Ukraine also goes through Transnistria. The pipe area is now under Moldova control even if it's in Transnistria, but if they gave Transnistria independence, they fear Transnistria might shut down gas from time to time simply to force them into deals they dislike.

Didn't Moldova want to reunify with Russia?

No, that's Transnistria, and even they aren't so sure about that.

A lot of people don't, some even confuse it with the Moldova region of Romania.
Anyways, just to put it into perspective, it is more likely for Ukraine's Cernivtsi Oblast (Northern Bukovina) to reunite with Romania than Moldova is.
It would be a less financial stain to integrate the region, it is more developed and Russia encourages it.

True. That region still has a majority of Romanians in the south, I'd be in favour of getting that part back, but not the entire Northern Bukovina, everything from Cernauti onwards is now Ukranian populated to the brink and there's no point.
This map shows the Ukranian region that would have belonged to Greater Romania before 1940.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...e/Cernauti.png
Hlyboka, Hertsa and Novoselitsa are the only regions where Romanian people are still the majority anymore. Those regions would benefit with being back in Romania.
But then... they'd need to want it too, and organize some referendum or something, we're not invading Ukraine just because there's Romanians there.

And yes, Russia would support it as that would mean we wouldn't help NATO scold them for Crimeea anymore.

[Gum]

Snip

This is prolly the most informative post on the subject anyone will find on any forum anywhere. Hats off Snowraven. What a beautifull reply with little to no bias. I applaud you.

[ringpriest]

Hehehehehehehe. Good one.

I meant that Transnistria has de facto independence from Moldova (which it does); you're correct that it's about as "independent" from Russia as Crimea or Kalingrad.