My issues with pre-potting (or lack thereof)

[Kevyne-Shandris]

People who believe it's a waste are foolish. It's a system that allows you to push so much more DPS at the start of a fight, that it makes a seriously noticeable difference. So you use double the amount of potions you normally would, so what? They're not expensive at any time other than the very launch of the expansion ...

If you can't see THE problem with the whole scheme (i.e., pre-potting was a bug that never was patched), then there's no discussion. You'll just try to justify a faster kill (and did), using any means possible including exploiting and cheating.

It just shows what raiding has become, exploiting and cheating for cheat sake (and none of them are even ashamed). All that elitism gone to waste. They'd compromise their own morals/ethics for that faster kill, for faster loot. -_-

[Granyala]

The most common reason (or excuse) I've heard for why some people don't is because "its farm content, and I don't care about ranking" or "a potion isn't going to make or break the fight".

And they are completely right.
Unless you are worldfirst and doing the encounters severely undergeared, pot or no pot will not decide whether you kill a boss or not.
Same goes for the dumb 300 stat food back in pandaria.

You can rage on about minmax, but this is a simple, undeniable fact. 99.99% of all wipes occur due to people fucking up on mechanics and/or dying.

I use prepots when we get in kill range on progression fights, I don't give a crap about farm bosses and never prepot, sometimes not even pot.
Exception: tight enrages where I know that my guild struggles with DPS, then I use both ofc.

Optimization is not just mindlessly cranking up character power. Optimization is also knowing when it's necessary and when it isn't.
Booing a player because he doesn't prepot on oneshot farm bosses is a tad ridiculous.

[Gorgodeus]

No it's not. It's not even like soccer in the US. -_-

You don't have a damn clue do you?

Here let me quote from a blog I wrote about a year ago. It is even bigger now.

I think it is safe to say that the exploding E-Sports scene has firmly entrenched itself as simply Sport now. Arenas are jam-packed with spectators, while TwitchTV is bursting at the seams with viewers of these events. One only has to look at the following events to see proof.

The $8 million League of Legends World Championship Finals, to be held Oct 4th, sold out the 20,000 seat Staples Center
Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/9/2/4685...staples-center
"The International", the DOTA 2 World Championship, which was held in Seattle's Key Arena last week, had a prize pool of nearly $11 million. The winning team took home over $5 million, which is more than what the U.S Open Golf tournament paid out. The tournament had 40 million page views on TwitchTV, and had nearly 800,000 watching one match at one point. It was also carried on ESPN3

E-Sports is now considered a sport just like any other by the US gov't. The US issues the same visa to pro-gamers as they do to players of other professional sports.
Sources: http://www.ibtimes.com/dota-2-intern...-espn3-1632888
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...449931363.html

[AeneasBK]

You serious? In TBC there was a fucking ton more consumables you had to get yourself. When I raided in TBC you needed your own food, your own flask or elixirs, your own potions, and don't forget about the weapon oils. None of it was just basically handed out to you because it was so cheap like it is now.

Being prepared for raids is easier now than it has ever been.

To the bolded, just no, there were different consumables (because feasts weren't a thing) but instead of weapon oils (which not every class needed, mages, warlocks, shaman, rogues were all fine eg.) we now have runes. No one really used scrolls back then and no one does now either. I'm not disputing that it's easier now. Everything is.

[Nyoken]

U must be raiding normal mode only huh?

[Adamas102]

Well, we were a top 20 world guild back then. It was not until much later that I realized how few like us there were.

Yeah, that kinda makes you an outlier. Even as part of the sub 1% that managed to clear most of original Naxx, I remember consumables to be encouraged but not required (and certainly not something to be booted from a raid for forgetting).

The terms have changed a bit since then I think. You could down a fair amount of content and still be considered a casual guild back then. Nowadays, it seems "casual" is a term relegated to describing LFR raiders, and everything on up is just varying tiers of tryhards that denigrate everyone that raids below their level.

[Granyala]

If you can't see THE problem with the whole scheme (i.e., pre-potting was a bug that never was patched), then there's no discussion. You'll just try to justify a faster kill (and did), using any means possible including exploiting and cheating.

Stop blabbing bullshit. It's not cheating. It would be very easy for Blizzard to deny players the option to prepot. (Hint: pot only usable during combat)
They don't, so we can conclude that this behavior is not only condoned but also factored into encounter design.

[mkultra55]

The only thing I disagree with in the OP is pre-potting for a healer. It's a waste most of the time. The only exception would be for a healer who will be doing damage in the first 30 seconds like a Monk in Crane, a Disc Priest for Atonement etc.

[Sallador]

If you can't see THE problem with the whole scheme (i.e., pre-potting was a bug that never was patched), then there's no discussion. You'll just try to justify a faster kill (and did), using any means possible including exploiting and cheating.

It just shows what raiding has become, exploiting and cheating for cheat sake (and none of them are even ashamed). All that elitism gone to waste. They'd compromise their own morals/ethics for that faster kill, for faster loot. -_-

Prepotting is something that's been in the game for a very long time. The fact that it hasn't been patched suggests blizzard doesn't care to change it. It's a well known fact you can prepot, I wouldn't Tag it as "this is what raiding has become" or "cheating"

[Gorgodeus]

Even as part of the sub 1% that managed to clear most of original Naxx, I remember consumables to be encouraged but not required (and certainly not something to be booted from a raid for forgetting).

When you have 50+ extras sitting outside the zone-in as we did, ready to take your spot that night, you can see why we did what we did.

[Blackmist]

It would be very easy for Blizzard to deny players the option to prepot. (Hint: pot only usable during combat)

Would actually be better to only start the cooldown once the effect has worn off. That way you can still use them out of combat if you wanted, but wouldn't be able to use two of them.

[Granyala]

Would actually be better to only start the cooldown once the effect has worn off. That way you can still use them out of combat if you wanted, but wouldn't be able to use two of them.

Why would you use them out of combat though? (talking about pots whose effects are only useful in combat, not stuff like faster walking pot)
But sure, your solution would work just as easily.

[NebulaG]

Bad neb! >

TBH I miss MoP tanking as a whole. It was a lot more fun then than it is now.

[Hyve]

If you can't see THE problem with the whole scheme (i.e., pre-potting was a bug that never was patched), then there's no discussion. You'll just try to justify a faster kill (and did), using any means possible including exploiting and cheating.

It just shows what raiding has become, exploiting and cheating for cheat sake (and none of them are even ashamed). All that elitism gone to waste. They'd compromise their own morals/ethics for that faster kill, for faster loot. -_-

The fact that you think Pre-Potting is a bug / exploit is evidence enough there is no conversation to be had here. You're being daft about the whole thing. No point including you any further in the conversation.

[Adamas102]

When you have 50+ extras sitting outside the zone-in as we did, ready to take your spot that night, you can see why we did what we did.

Oh, I understand, but that wasn't the norm. If pre-potting is the norm for raiding now, then I'm a bit surprised. I'm not saying people are wrong for wanting to min/max, but it's a mentality that used to be reserved for only a minority of raiders, and you used to be able to get by just fine without it.

[Noctifer616]

Oh, I understand, but that wasn't the norm. If pre-potting is the norm for raiding now, then I'm a bit surprised. I'm not saying people are wrong for wanting to min/max, but it's a mentality that used to be reserved for only a minority of raiders, and you used to be able to get by just fine without it.

I can't talk about guilds that mainly focus on normal/heroic, but as a guild that raids mythic prepoting is expected for progress. You can get away without prepoting on farm bosses.

[Pua]

I don't think it's snobbery to expect to raid with people who min-max just as much as me? Maybe my post was a tad hard worded but essentially I stand by my point. If OP wants a guild that raids to a high standard, his current guild isn't worth his time. The community hasn't gone to hell, they're more selective about who they play with.

If you think a person's worth is measured in how stringently they subscribe to your standards, especially in a video game, then I really don't know what to say.

"Get a life" would possibly be a start.

"What's that? You've worked night and day for 17 years and found a cure for cancer? Well, that's cool and all, but I didn't see you pre-pot".

Expecting someone to put in the same effort I am is 100% rational, outside of WoW this is exactly the same.

Question for you and, by extension, to the OP:

Do you pre-pot before every trash pack? Before every mob out in the wilds? Do you pre-pot consistently while levelling?

I thought not.

Would doing so enhance your performance?

I thought so.

Seriously, you raiders. You're so deluded, it's laughable.

I REALLY miss vengeance.

Off-topic slightly, but I just wanted to say:

No.

Vengeance was an objectively bad mechanic.

So, because it's not as big as Football / Soccer, it's not huge? Riiight ...

Right.

Football dwarfs (no pun intended) eSports, and for very obvious reasons. But hey, let's all compare socially awkward, basement-haunting Koreans to elite athletes who work and commit decades to get where they are. Riiiight.

[Delaios]

Only issue with potions is their small stack limit.

[Wildtree]

making a very generous evaluation now.....


Unless you're part of the top 3 guilds of your server (that's the generous part, cause one could argue that it might only apply to the top 10 - 20 guilds in the world)...
So, unless you're part of the top 3 guilds AND work on progression fights, potting is an utter waste of resources.. Especially pre-potting..
Pre potting is nothing more than a very miniscule time saving component. It wins you a few seconds on the fight length.
Very little opening sequences of the fights ask for better than normal stats to overcome that phase. Mid-fight - that is a different ballgame.
And farming content.. well the term gives it away... farming... you wanna take something out, not put something in. Minimized investment is the economical approach.

But as someone said on page one.... It's fine if you wanna double pot on every fight.. No one tells you not to..
Just don't expect others to play as you do, find like minded people instead.

[Hyve]

Football dwarfs (no pun intended) eSports, and for very obvious reasons. But hey, let's all compare socially awkward, basement-haunting Koreans to elite athletes who work and commit decades to get where they are. Riiiight.

The assumption is that anyone who plays games professionally is a basement dwelling weirdo needs to die. The fact that as gamers we continue to spread that nonsense is stupid.