Have they loosened up the f2p restrictions at all?

[Edge-]

It doesn't. And it's usually the one thing people will concede is that the credit cap should probably be raised for F2P and Preferred accounts.

I'd love to see it removed, it kinda screws over folks selling stuff as well. They either have to price their stuff lower to get the F2P segment of players (which is the majority, I'd imagine) or have to sell at a higher price to a much smaller market. Would do wonders for a lot of F2P folks for getting them more engaged with the game and likely monetized since they'd be able to bypass many of the annoying restrictions through the GTN and have a more enjoyable gameplay experience.

[Svifnymr]

I don't really see how that solves the problem, though, of unlocks costing more credits than my cap. xD

I usually sub every now and then, so I'll just save up for the big purchases until then.

I really don't see how a F2Per is going to ever play enough to earn the money to unlock the basics needed in order to do anything, ever.

If you sub for a month and get a referal, you'd go Prefered and probably have enough to do something with. Plus you get some cartel coins with the sub. As straight F2P though, can't see it.

[Katchii]

Yeah the credit limit is beyond retarded since it fucks over people on both sides of the economy. You really can't put anything up on the GTN for more than 350k and expect for it to sell unless it's something EVERYBODY wants...

How does escrow work once you've reached the cap and then spent money? Do you automatically get filled back up to the cap so you can never spend above a certain amount on one transaction or is the money that goes into the escrow account forever unavailable until you get an escrow unlock?

[TirielWoW]

Yeah the credit limit is beyond retarded since it fucks over people on both sides of the economy. You really can't put anything up on the GTN for more than 350k and expect for it to sell unless it's something EVERYBODY wants...

How does escrow work once you've reached the cap and then spent money? Do you automatically get filled back up to the cap so you can never spend above a certain amount on one transaction or is the money that goes into the escrow account forever unavailable until you get an escrow unlock?

I think I actually used it once, but it was a while back so I don't know if this is still the case. I believe you have to buy the unlock or you cannot access the money. I may be wrong, tho.

[Edge-]

I think I actually used it once, but it was a while back so I don't know if this is still the case. I believe you have to buy the unlock or you cannot access the money. I may be wrong, tho.

Yup, that's how it works. You're essentially spending money to gain access to more money, it just sits in your escrow until you sub or spend money on the escrow unlocks.

[quras]

It doesn't. And it's usually the one thing people will concede is that the credit cap should probably be raised for F2P and Preferred accounts.

I'm not sure if that would be a good thing or not increasing the credit cap.

More credits to spend sound good but

The obvious negative one being, credit sellers are bad enough with preferred accounts. Give them free/preferred accounts with larger credit pools and it will get worse.

The second thing that is likely to happen would also be an increase in the credit cost for unlocks as far as price goes on the GTN. If F2P and preferred have access to more money, those unlocks are very likely to increase as well.

Neither of which I think is a good thing or solves the problem of getting those unlocks a little easier if that is what people really want and not just "more free stuff."

I'd rather see those unlocks have a credit cap on them for GTN sales that caterers a little more to F2P and preferred before I opened up credit caps but then you have the free market and all debate to contend with if you do that.

[Katchii]

I'd rather see those unlocks have a credit cap on them for GTN sales that caterers a little more to F2P and preferred before I opened up credit caps but then you have the free market and all debate to contend with if you do that.

Good point, overall. Maybe if they just changed it so F2P and preferred couldn't hold more than a certain amount at a time, but they got access to every credit they own without having escrow. Meaning they could only ever spend 350k on something but if they had 100k in their "escrow" account they'd automatically get those credits after spending the 350k.

This way it keeps items (specifically the unlocks) on the GTN at a reasonable level, essentially capped, but still allows them access to their money.

[Edge-]

I'd rather see those unlocks have a credit cap on them for GTN sales that caterers a little more to F2P and preferred before I opened up credit caps but then you have the free market and all debate to contend with if you do that.

So now you're actively punishing players, including subscribers, by forcing them to sell below what may be the market value. That seems like a worse solution, as it would lead to more pissed off paying players.

[Darth Belichick]

So now you're actively punishing players, including subscribers, by forcing them to sell below what may be the market value. That seems like a worse solution, as it would lead to more pissed off paying players.

But if you raise the cap you can still screw over F2P and regular subscribers because suddenly the price of everything went up. It's a tough play either way. And overall, it's still subscribers > F2P players, so whatever screws over Subs less is the way to go.

[Edge-]

But if you raise the cap you can still screw over F2P and regular subscribers because suddenly the price of everything went up.

It will go up, but subs who are selling stuff will now be able to earn more per sale and F2P players will be able to farm more credits (not hard) to be able to purchase it. It's not screwing anyone so much as simply leveling the economic playing field a bit and creating more parity between buying/selling potential.

[Darth Belichick]

But as quras pointed out, if you raise the cap on F2P, it might actually hurt F2P more than help. Yeah they'll have access to more credits, but because of that they'll be expected to have more credits. Unlocks double in price and now you have to go escrow over 1mil (assuming 1mil cap) and spend credits to do those. So instead of an unlocks costing say 300k because of credit cap they are now all 650k+. So yeah, you have more credits, but everything costs more now.

[Edge-]

But as quras pointed out, if you raise the cap on F2P, it might actually hurt F2P more than help. Yeah they'll have access to more credits, but because of that they'll be expected to have more credits.

And that's bad because...you may have to farm more? I don't see the issue with that, it's spending time to earn the money to purchase unlocks. As it stands now, you either flat out cannot afford a whole lot of stuff (credit cap limitations), jump through massively obnoxiosu hoops (purchasing a ton of escrow unlocks), or hoping that you have a friend/someone you can trust who is subbed who can bankroll you for things while you pay them back slowly.

With no cap, prices go up for some of the existing cheaper things, but folks also not only get access to a hell of a lot more, but most of the cheap stuff is pretty pointless and highly unlikely to raise in price (because "show title" unlocks are so desirable!)

Unlocks double in price and now you have to go escrow over 1mil (assuming 1mil cap) and spend credits to do those.

The goal would be to remove the cap altogether. Shifting it up would just raise prices but continue to routinely price things outside of the credit cap, repeating all the same hassles that already exist for everyone (both buyers and sellers).

So instead of an unlocks costing say 300k because of credit cap they are now all 650k+. So yeah, you have more credits, but everything costs more now.

The whole point of removing the credit cap is to allow for folks to afford things as they raise in price, while allowing sellers to price them at what they really think they're worth/what the market dictates rather than either be forced to price them so they're affordable to F2P folks or dramatically reduce the market they can sell to by pricing them above.

It really is a win/win for everyone.

[quras]

So now you're actively punishing players, including subscribers, by forcing them to sell below what may be the market value. That seems like a worse solution, as it would lead to more pissed off paying players.

and therein is the debate and my point of saying it. Do you hinder and piss off, GTN free market players to make restriction unlocks easier to get for gamers that are already not paying anything or do you raise credit caps on F2P and preferred gamers but in turn watch those restriction unlock prices increase because sellers know they can now demand more? Thus putting F2P gamers right back where they started achieving little to nothing except some subscriber making a bit more credits but if they are buying CC unlocks enough to make a profit, there loaded anyway and it's no big deal to them to make a little more or less.

Credit cap increase isn't going to help out F2P/preferred in the way you seem to think it will

And that's bad because...you may have to farm more?

If there not willing to farm now to get what they want, it stands to reason there not going to be willing to farm later.

I don't see the issue with that, it's spending time to earn the money to purchase unlocks. As it stands now, you either flat out cannot afford a whole lot of stuff (credit cap limitations), jump through massively obnoxiosu hoops (purchasing a ton of escrow unlocks), or hoping that you have a friend/someone you can trust who is subbed who can bankroll you for things while you pay them back slowly.

With no cap, prices go up for some of the existing cheaper things, but folks also not only get access to a hell of a lot more, but most of the cheap stuff is pretty pointless and highly unlikely to raise in price (because "show title" unlocks are so desirable!)

Going to start off with no credit cap mean you have a shit ton of credit sellers to deal with. An already ever goring problem. No thank you. No game needs more of that.

F2P isn't paying anything for the game. Jumping through a few hoops isn't game killing when you got it for free. It hasn't been killing the game since it went F2P. You're not getting everything you want for free but too bad. You can play the game and eventually get it in a couple ways. You may not like your options of playing to get them but taking a bit longer to do just shows how little people will farm.

No credit cap would increase the cost of the things people want most. Title unlocks may not be a huge sell but they would still go up same as the ones that would be in demand and thus a price increase. The more wanted an unlock is the more it will go up. F2P would be in the same boat. Raising credit cap isn't going to solve your unlock problem Sure you got more income to spend but now the things you want cost more and the cheap stuff as you point out, few will care about anyway but you can bet the base price for them still go up.

The goal would be to remove the cap altogether. Shifting it up would just raise prices but continue to routinely price things outside of the credit cap, repeating all the same hassles that already exist for everyone (both buyers and sellers).

Thus telling you raising the credit cap doesn't solve the issue you claim is there.

The whole point of removing the credit cap is to allow for folks to afford things as they raise in price, while allowing sellers to price them at what they really think they're worth/what the market dictates rather than either be forced to price them so they're affordable to F2P folks or dramatically reduce the market they can sell to by pricing them above.

It really is a win/win for everyone.

I don't see a win/win when the market will be the same shortly after a credit cap increase. Sure, a few might get in quick enough to buy something but the market would keep similar percentages and F2P would be in a similar boat not long after.

The F2P might have a bit more expendable income but the unlocks they want would be priced higher because now sellers can demand more. Thus changing nothing. That extra credits a F2P might have isn't needed to buy gear given how comms are these days and it's just credits in the hope they might get an unlock they really didn't have all that much desire to get anyway. Credit cap increase but only have the effect of increasing the price of items geared more toward F2P? Nothing changes in the long run.

A credit cap increase doesn't solve you're issue here. F2P with unlimited credits is a free games nightmare.

[derpkitteh]

as out of control as the inflation has gotten in this game, i would LOVE to see credit caps on certain items in the gtn.

the prices are completely and totally unrealistically huge on simple sets of cartel market armor.

putting caps on stuff to keep the jerks with massive wallets in line is a good thing.

[Edge-]

Credit cap increase isn't going to help out F2P/preferred in the way you seem to think it will

No, but removal of the credit cap will, and it will help subs who can now price unlocks at market rates and have more confidence that they'll sell.

If there not willing to farm now to get what they want, it stands to reason there not going to be willing to farm later.

My question was more rhetorical, because I don't view it as a bad thing at all. Going and doing some dailies to earn credits to afford a more expensive unlock is infinitely easier than going and doing a bunch of dailies and then needing to figure out how many escrow unlocks you need to buy to access enough of your escrow to purchase something and deal with that hassle.

Going to start off with no credit cap mean you have a shit ton of credit sellers to deal with. An already ever goring problem. No thank you. No game needs more of that.

You don't now? I mean, I still routinely get credit seller spam through in-game male and see tells/spam messages. Credit caps don't fix, or even really affect that at all.

F2P isn't paying anything for the game.

Nope, but it's keeping an active population for paying players and it's a model they shifted to in order to draw in new paying players.

Jumping through a few hoops isn't game killing when you got it for free.

Right you are! But it's a matter of who many hoops you make them jump through and how complicated it is. It's one thing to need to farm more to earn something as F2P compared to sub, I rarely see complaints about needing to put forth a bit of extra effort. It's another to need to farm more and then rely on the market hopefully pricing necessary things you need cheap enough for you to afford and then farm some more and then repeat. One is a hoop to jump through (or a few), the other is a bloody obstacle course.

It hasn't been killing the game since it went F2P. You're not getting everything you want for free but too bad.

To the first point, you're right! But I have a sneaking suspicion that they've done what CoH did in that they've primarily figured out how to monetize their existing paying player better rather than draw in a ton of new paying players. As to the second bit, again, nobody is asking for everything for free. Most of us have no problem having restrictions/needing to spend more time doing things to progress/unlock things compared to subs.

You can play the game and eventually get it in a couple ways. You may not like your options of playing to get them but taking a bit longer to do just shows how little people will farm.

Again, it's not the farming. It's the needing to find someone else you trust (I wouldn't trust most random folks I meet in MMO's like that), needing to have a friend you know that's a sub (I don't have any friends that play at all), or jump through the massive hassle of escrow unlocks in addition to needing to farm the credits. Needing to hope that there are enough escrow unlocks on the GTN to get enough of my credits, needing to hope they're priced somewhat reasonably (i.e. not a 400k price for a 500k unlock), and needing to potentially farm considerably over what the price was (I still remember pricing it out and a 2M item would end up making me need to farm 5M due to the price of escrow unlocks).

I have no problem spending a few days farming if I can just walk to the GTN and buy the thing without all the massive hassle that currently comes with it. And positive experiences in games are more likely to get people playing/continuing to play and eventually paying than negative ones.

No credit cap would increase the cost of the things people want most. Title unlocks may not be a huge sell but they would still go up same as the ones that would be in demand and thus a price increase.

Again, this wouldn't be an issue. It would be a good thing. The paying players would be able to earn more credits for the stuff they sell (yay for benefits for paying players!) and F2P players would have to spend more time farming credits, but would be able to purchase those more expensive unlocks with considerably less of a hassle in terms of "How many escrow unlocks do I need? What's their current price? Are there enough on the GTN right now?" etc.

Raising credit cap isn't going to solve your unlock problem.

Yes, yes it would. The current problem is the vast majority of unlocks (again, at least on my server) are priced well out of the 350K cap, and it's a bloody nightmare to figure out how many escrow unlocks I need to get stuff (I feel like I need to hire a damn accountant) and often times there will be very few of them on the GTN at a time. Without that hassle, I can simply spend time in-game to farm the credits via dailies or professions and then purchase it with a single click of a "buy now" button.

Sure you got more income to spend but now the things you want cost more and the cheap stuff as you point out, few will care about anyway but you can bet the base price for them still go up.

I've addressed this. The corresponding increase in price would come with an increase in the earning/purchasing potential of F2P players, which would offset the increase in price and create a level and fair playing field for all market participants.

I don't see a win/win when the market will be the same shortly after a credit cap increase.

Again, talking about removing credit caps, not increasing them. I've said that simply increasing the credit cap will not address the issue in the slightest.

You keep talking about a credit cap increase. I don't think anyone who is critical of the credit cap has mentioned a simple increase, we've been discussing the benefits for both free and paying players from its removal.

as out of control as the inflation has gotten in this game, i would LOVE to see credit caps on certain items in the gtn.

the prices are completely and totally unrealistically huge on simple sets of cartel market armor.

putting caps on stuff to keep the jerks with massive wallets in line is a good thing.

The inflation is BioWare's problem for not having sufficient credit sinks in the game. It's a chronic MMO problem and one that few games have figured out (PoE figured it out more or less by having all of their currencies be useful for other things in-game so that people are removing them from the economy by using them to reroll sockets or socket colors in-game).

Putting caps on how much people can sell stuff for screws them over and pisses them off. It doesn't solve any problems, it just creates new ones in that people will stop selling those items on the GTN and will be doing so from one person to another so that they can bypass the selling cap.

[Katchii]

The whole point of removing the credit cap is to allow for folks to afford things as they raise in price, while allowing sellers to price them at what they really think they're worth/what the market dictates rather than either be forced to price them so they're affordable to F2P folks or dramatically reduce the market they can sell to by pricing them above.

It really is a win/win for everyone.

Would entirely depend on the prices the unlocks market ended up settling on. I'd imagine it would self regulate, but allowing the really good GTN players (who can make millions of credits a day) to set the pricing for the unlocks that should be reasonably accessible for all F2P players wouldn't be right because the vast majority of players aren't like that and wouldn't be able to afford it, making those particular unlocks a niche market, which is retarded.

On the other side, those same really good GTN players would be able to make credits hand over fist and be able to play the game with all of it's features essentially for free. I think that's pretty awesome, but do you think EA would ever allow that?

[Edge-]

On the other side, those same really good GTN players would be able to make credits hand over fist and be able to play the game with all of it's features essentially for free. I think that's pretty awesome, but do you think EA would ever allow that?

Theoretically, that's absolutely possible now. You just have to jump through a million hoops to do so.

[quras]

SNIP
You don't now? I mean, I still routinely get credit seller spam through in-game male and see tells/spam messages. Credit caps don't fix, or even really affect that at all.

If you get them now you can bet your ass it would get worse if there was no limit to the credits F2P/preferred could have. Credit caps keep those things in check. Unlimited credits would make it worse by leaps and bounds.

Nope, but it's keeping an active population for paying players and it's a model they shifted to in order to draw in new paying players.

and that model is working pretty well. No reason to change it. Opening up unlimited credits isn't going to bring in the credit spamming crowd anyone would want. Active population of F2P gamers alone doesn't keep the game afloat. Preferred yea, subs yea. F2P no so much.

Right you are! But it's a matter of who many hoops you make them jump through and how complicated it is. It's one thing to need to farm more to earn something as F2P compared to sub, I rarely see complaints about needing to put forth a bit of extra effort. It's another to need to farm more and then rely on the market hopefully pricing necessary things you need cheap enough for you to afford and then farm some more and then repeat. One is a hoop to jump through (or a few), the other is a bloody obstacle course.

and yet that obstacle course contains some of the best story content made for an MMO. Play the game, remove the restrictions you dislike. All it takes is a little time because after all, you didn't pay for any of it yet.

To the first point, you're right! But I have a sneaking suspicion that they've done what CoH did in that they've primarily figured out how to monetize their existing paying player better rather than draw in a ton of new paying players. As to the second bit, again, nobody is asking for everything for free. Most of us have no problem having restrictions/needing to spend more time doing things to progress/unlock things compared to subs.

unlimited credit and removing current restriction requests seem to say otherwise. Seems there are gamers that don't want to spend the time and do have a problem playing to remove what they dislike when there already playing for free.

Again, it's not the farming. It's the needing to find someone else you trust (I wouldn't trust most random folks I meet in MMO's like that), needing to have a friend you know that's a sub (I don't have any friends that play at all), or jump through the massive hassle of escrow unlocks in addition to needing to farm the credits. Needing to hope that there are enough escrow unlocks on the GTN to get enough of my credits, needing to hope they're priced somewhat reasonably (i.e. not a 400k price for a 500k unlock), and needing to potentially farm considerably over what the price was (I still remember pricing it out and a 2M item would end up making me need to farm 5M due to the price of escrow unlocks).

and yet still doable with only time being spent and using in game credits only for a game someone clearly wants to play. Would spend time in it anyway but just wants it to be easier in a game there not paying for.

I can't get behind that mentality.

Hell, spend $15 once, get what you want in one month and never sub again. Boom you just got some of the best content, removed most restrictions you hate and can now play for nothing. F2P requesting to have it easier. Not a fan.

Again, this wouldn't be an issue. It would be a good thing. The paying players would be able to earn more credits for the stuff they sell (yay for benefits for paying players!) and F2P players would have to spend more time farming credits, but would be able to purchase those more expensive unlocks with considerably less of a hassle in terms of "How many escrow unlocks do I need? What's their current price? Are there enough on the GTN right now?" etc.

Incorrect, the paying player will still be capped at certain areas because of the inherent cost of coins. It's another joke of F2P players wanting more free or easier restrictions hidden behind the smoke screen of "paying gamers will make more". The game being free isn't enough.

Unlimited credits for F2P would be a game disaster. F2P rarely if ever having a need to spend any real money and getting the bulk of content for nothing. To pull off what you want business wise, BW would have to charge more upfront fees to compensate and thats not a good thing for how this game is setup and just how much is given away for free. Play the game, pay nothing and remove restrictions you dislike is a solid system for F2P gamers who don't want to spend anything anyway. Making it easier doesn't encourage spending to a crowd that is trying to not spend anything.

Yes, yes it would. The current problem is the vast majority of unlocks (again, at least on my server) are priced well out of the 350K cap, and it's a bloody nightmare to figure out how many escrow unlocks I need to get stuff (I feel like I need to hire a damn accountant) and often times there will be very few of them on the GTN at a time. Without that hassle, I can simply spend time in-game to farm the credits via dailies or professions and then purchase it with a single click of a "buy now" button.

It's damn easy to figure out what to spend and grind for and then buy on the GTN. Come on.

If your server sucks then I'm sorry. Spend 90 CC (about $1.00) and move servers to somewhere more accommodating. It's crazy cheap right now.

An unlimited credit cap to make it easier for F2P isn't a game helping feature. All it does is give F2P more reason to not support the game there already not supporting. It's not going to keep them playing longer nor get them more attached to the game to the point where they would want to spend any real money. Unlimited credit cap would bring in more credit sellers than ever before. I'd wager it would screw up the economy more than help as more people moved to a preferred status and not pay anything.

I've addressed this. The corresponding increase in price would come with an increase in the earning/purchasing potential of F2P players, which would offset the increase in price and create a level and fair playing field for all market participants.

Why would there need to be a fair play to F2P not paying anything when the market is pretty stable now and sellers are already doing well? Change it all so some F2P gamer doesn't have to play as much to get what he wants? No thank you.

Again, talking about removing credit caps, not increasing them. I've said that simply increasing the credit cap will not address the issue in the slightest.

You keep talking about a credit cap increase. I don't think anyone who is critical of the credit cap has mentioned a simple increase, we've been discussing the benefits for both free and paying players from its removal.

Oh I get you want it removed entirely. I just don't back that line of thinking for F2P or preferred status gamers. Credit cap removal would drive to many to not sub. Increase credit sellers and be bad for the game as a whole as F2P players cheered getting more for nothing.

The inflation is BioWare's problem for not having sufficient credit sinks in the game. It's a chronic MMO problem and one that few games have figured out (PoE figured it out more or less by having all of their currencies be useful for other things in-game so that people are removing them from the economy by using them to reroll sockets or socket colors in-game).

Putting caps on how much people can sell stuff for screws them over and pisses them off. It doesn't solve any problems, it just creates new ones in that people will stop selling those items on the GTN and will be doing so from one person to another so that they can bypass the selling cap.

I do agree with you that caps on subs selling stuff would have it's own set of issues but removing the credit cap entirely is just as bad. One set of gamers is supporting the game to generate in game credits by buying and selling unlocks. The credit cap being removed would allow F2P to buy more but in turn cause more to not be subs and just stay as non payers. Hurting the overall game.

I can only hope BW is never stupid enough to remove the credit cap from F2P or preferred unless they made being a sub some amazing over the top benefit.

Which bring me back to something I already said. More benefits to F2P and preferred isn't the answer but I can see adjusting a few restrictions especially for preferred. More reasons to be a sub is. More reasons to pay a sub each month with perks that make F2P and preferred gamers say, "I want that."

Screaming, "I want that!" as you pay nothing and request easier access to an already free game is a route I don't fully support.

[Deleted]

To be honest, I doubt they'll loosen them for F2Pers, Preferred Players maybe, but not F2Pers.

[TirielWoW]

To be honest, I doubt they'll loosen them for F2Pers, Preferred Players maybe, but not F2Pers.

Preferred just means you bought the game, right? I don't see an issue with that (but, then again, I don't mind B2Play, think it's generally a better system).