Legion Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Maxweii]

What drives me mad with WoW and I consider horrible design is its utter failure to provide a tutorial on how the game is played while leveling. Seriously I cannot imagine how it'd be for a new player to get into this game these days.

If you compare leveling in WoW now, with no addons or anything and a fresh character, compared to other MMO's, then WoW does a lot better than most. Doesn't have 4000 unconfigurable Windows and pop ups all over the screen. Generally straight forward with just 'you use this for this and this for that'

[Deleted]

PvE and PvP Ingame Toplist UI this Build please.

a man can dream.

Is there even any argument against it?

[Deleted]

The question was "are you forced to use heirloom ?" the answer is no.

Is the levelling way too easy and faceroll in old content ? the answer is yes.

Would I like legion scaling to be implemented in old content/or to make it harder ? the answer is yes. Not that I mind it, but I know a lot of my friends stopped playing because they enjoy levelling but not in WoW as it currently is. I don't want them to go back to Vanilla WoW but I think the legion scaling tech would be really cool and if they extend it to dungeons (only through lfd so you can still solo it easily at high level for mog or whatever) it would make queue times much lower aswell as making the levelling experience richer since you'll be able to do a tons of dungeon throughout your levelling.

Maybe limit that to each expac like : old vanilla zones and dungeons are scaled up to level 60. BC zones and dungeons are scaled up to level 70. etc.

The problem is that the experience without heirlooms isn't exactly optimal either. All 3 of the friends I got to play wow over the last year obviously didn't have looms, but the result was that they ended up just running behind people with looms in dungeons trying to keep up and getting one shot in bgs/open world. Not to mention that they were still 2-3 shotting mobs while leveling^^

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PvE and PvP Ingame Toplist UI this Build please.

a man can dream.

Is there even any argument against it?

That would be pretty damn awesome. Having pvp ladders and wowprogress basically ingame KreyGasm

[Mystiik]

Yeah probably :/

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Aye that's quite sad. I think in favor of catering to wow veterans no longer wanting to spend time leveling rather than the younger generations of gamers.

I think the catering to younger gamers is what the issues is. I remember leveling at 10 years old. It was challenging, and that's what drew me to the game more and more: challenge. Now, Blizzard wants to appeal to the new players and the casual players by satisfying their instant gratification tendencies.

I'd love to return to the 2 month leveling process, but it won't happen because (typically) younger players no longer have the patience or time to invest like we once did in Vanilla.

The game has transformed and now there is a certain standard that people expect (take the gold requirement for spec swapping), and if we see any deviation from this norm, there is enormous outcry. There's a huge problem with entitlement in this community nowadays.

[Tartys]

I RAF'd my 10-year-old son and he thinks the game is too easy and that the leveling is boring.

There's something seriously wrong when something like that happens, IMO.

Happens because this game is older than your son.


BTW, Im the only one that dont care about Pristine/Legacy Realms? I really enjoy Vanilla, really... not only for the fact that you are facing something totally new but mostly because friends/guild mate, a thing that a Legacy realm cant bring back.

[Mystiik]

i 100% disagree, the outcry comes 100 % from old players which also wants life sport system like lfr


every year there is a new generation of neckbeards who want kill dragons. They dont magicly vanished its just blizzard dont cater to them anymore

I think the true customers who will remain with Blizzard through thick and thin, will be those who have played for years and years. They typically are the ones who continue raiding and whatnot, and will take Blizzard's decisions maturely and embrace them. Look at the streamers and top guilds: most of them are long vets that will do what they have to do to see content, not look for shortcuts.

LFR was created for older gamers who don't have time or desire to raid heroic and mythic, I agree with you there. There is however, a target on the younger audience, who has generalized traits like "impatient", and "entitled". These gamers do not care about a rich level process. They would rather speed to 100 and PvP all day. Again, generalizing.

[Deleted]

sry if i dont want 3.8k pages, when they will shotdown alpha forum?
in wod when they did it how much after the beta begins?

[boyzma]

sry if i dont want 3.8k pages, when they will shotdown alpha forum?
in wod when they did it how much after the beta begins?

When it goes from alpha to beta it will continue on. When it goes live it will cease to exist.

[huth]

sry if i dont want 3.8k pages, when they will shotdown alpha forum?
in wod when they did it how much after the beta begins?

They will just get renamed to Beta forums. They won't shut down till the end of August.

[Saracens]

This is all the last few pages makes me think...

[Zcion999]

Or remove the Heirloom items entirely, make them into a passive (with or without the inherent power) so that loot means anything. I don't know if you played much pre-Heirlooms (I assume not), but I've played a lot since Vanilla, and gear was always a very nice incentive to leveling up (getting plate at level 40 always felt cool, for instance), the Heirloom items remove that part of leveling as you have the best gear available in all of the important slots 99.9% of the time.
You might find a blue with better stat allocation, but that'll be marginally better for all of one single level (and that's by disregarding the exp buff).

Scale zones (and probably make them do X% more damage and have X% more life), remove Heirlooms (the items, keep the buffs if necessary), and leveling won't be such a chore anymore. Still obviously won't magically be perfect, but it's a start.

This said by someone who's reached max level in all expansions a total of 50+ times, if that means anything to anyone beyond "duh you obviously like leveling what's the problem xD".

Totally, I agree with that completely. I remember being freaking STOKED when getting plate gear in instances when leveling. However, leveling now is just a way to get a character to the real game to me. The game starts at max level for me and for a lot of people to. I always argued that I would actually remove the leveling part of mmos altogether. It feels like a new season in Diablo to me, I just get max level as fast as possible to get it over with and then start playing the real game. I even, like a jackass, let my friends level in season 6 while I was on a date and then had them power level me the next morning instead of spending the 3-4 hours to level

So for me, leveling is an unfortunate part of the game that I wish I could do away with. Heirlooms and super condensed exp curve is helping me with that but it's not even enough for me.

For new players, the current leveling scheme is terrible, it is not fun at all and they don't even have access to acceleration like we do.

Here is the problem, how do we make me (and other "veterans" like me) happy while still giving a meaningful leveling experience to new comers. Blizzard tried to make both sides happy but ended up making both sides feel terrible. I don't want to spend the time to level since I did it way to much (while it was fun even) and new comers or even veterans who enjoy leveling (those people are weird) have a fucked up, easy as shit and confusing leveling experience. How is it elegant to have a character outlevel a zone when being not even a third of it in . All the story and lore is lost because people are forced to move on to an other zone before being anywhere near finished.

My solution to that would be to simply, remake the leveling curve so it makes sense, remove the super powerful heirlooms BUT have us pay GOLD to level a character to max if you already have a max level character. People like me would pay the gold and get an alt ready for the real game instantly and people who enjoy leveling or are new comers get a very good leveling experience. Both parties are happy.

[Denisac]

The biggest issue with heirlooms as they currently exist is that they're more or less best in set items (regardless of the xp bonus) when it comes to levelling. If they were scaled like greens rather than epics it would even out the power curve when levelling a bit while still providing faster xp accrual. The power bloat is so bad that most quest mobs die before they even get to hit you once if you're levelling a DPS caster

As for old world scaling, it does appear as if there are some creatures in thousand needles (on live) which have some amount of scaling applied to them.

I feel this is relevant to discussion simply because adjusting ilvl bloat on heirlooms for the coming expansion would address quite a number of quality of life issues for both new players and old ones in both PvE and PvP. Remember when quest color meant something and trying to push through red/orange content was quite difficult on your own?

edit: looks like I was late....

[Enthralled]

Happens because this game is older than your son.

I hardly see what that has to do with it. He's really into vintage games so the fact that WoW is old is completely irrelevant. We bought him a Retron console a couple of years back and he spends a lot of time working his way through my husband's old SNES games. He likes a challenge. He doesn't like two-shotting mobs over and over out in the world (questing) or running after an overpowered tank to two-shot some bosses (dungeons).

[Mystiik]

I hardly see what that has to do with it. He's really into vintage games so the fact that WoW is old is completely irrelevant. We bought him a Retron console a couple of years back and he spends a lot of time working his way through my husband's old SNES games. He likes a challenge. He doesn't like two-shotting mobs over and over out in the world (questing) or running after an overpowered tank to two-shot some bosses (dungeons).

Post this feedback on the Blizz forums! This is stuff they want to see. I'd like to see more of a challenge return to the leveling process as well.

[Deleted]

The biggest issue with heirlooms as they currently exist is that they're more or less best in set items (regardless of the xp bonus) when it comes to levelling. If they were scaled like greens rather than epics it would even out the power curve when levelling a bit while still providing faster xp accrual. The power bloat is so bad that most quest mobs die before they even get to hit you once if you're levelling a DPS caster

Looms scaled like greens instead of blues -> cue people shitting themselves in a furious rage in 1000-page threads because NERF! and now they are FORCED (oh the humanity!) to choose between +xp and character power. Including: altoholics whining about their 100th alt they need to farm Lich King on yet another char taking longer to level, tanks whinining about loom healers getting worse, healers whining about tanks getting worse, dps whining about looms being UPLAYABLE (totally totally unplayable) bacause they fall behind in dps against people in non-looms, and, just to put some icing on this shitcake, vanilla proponents adding useful feedback like "lol noobs these days, git gud, in vanilla you had to drink 3 times between each pull, muh difficulty, casuals ruining WoW, ololololo".

The same thing happened with flying, they "nerfed" something because they felt it's cheapening and streamlining gameplay too much, then added it in as a reward you have to actively work for. Result? An ocean of fucking tears.

[Segus1992]

Totally, I agree with that completely. I remember being freaking STOKED when getting plate gear in instances when leveling. However, leveling now is just a way to get a character to the real game to me. The game starts at max level for me and for a lot of people to. I always argued that I would actually remove the leveling part of mmos altogether. It feels like a new season in Diablo to me, I just get max level as fast as possible to get it over with and then start playing the real game. I even, like a jackass, let my friends level in season 6 while I was on a date and then had them power level me the next morning instead of spending the 3-4 hours to level

So for me, leveling is an unfortunate part of the game that I wish I could do away with. Heirlooms and super condensed exp curve is helping me with that but it's not even enough for me.

For new players, the current leveling scheme is terrible, it is not fun at all and they don't even have access to acceleration like we do.

Here is the problem, how do we make me (and other "veterans" like me) happy while still giving a meaningful leveling experience to new comers. Blizzard tried to make both sides happy but ended up making both sides feel terrible. I don't want to spend the time to level since I did it way to much (while it was fun even) and new comers or even veterans who enjoy leveling (those people are weird) have a fucked up, easy as shit and confusing leveling experience. How is it elegant to have a character outlevel a zone when being not even a third of it in . All the story and lore is lost because people are forced to move on to an other zone before being anywhere near finished.

My solution to that would be to simply, remake the leveling curve so it makes sense, remove the super powerful heirlooms BUT have us pay GOLD to level a character to max if you already have a max level character. People like me would pay the gold and get an alt ready for the real game instantly and people who enjoy leveling or are new comers get a very good leveling experience. Both parties are happy.

Diablo 3 is a terrible example as the game is suffering the same issue as WoW is; leveling is boring. Compare with a decent ARPG - Path of Exile - where leveling is fun while maintaining a decent endgame.

Just because leveling in D3 and WoW is awful is no reason to remove leveling as a whole. Just have smart design for it.

[Enthralled]

Post this feedback on the Blizz forums! This is stuff they want to see. I'd like to see more of a challenge return to the leveling process as well.

Oh I have.

[Mystiik]

Oh I have.

Link to thread? I'll bump it.

[emilylorange]

Looms scaled like greens instead of blues -> cue people shitting themselves in a furious rage in 1000-page threads because NERF! and now they are FORCED (oh the humanity!) to choose between +xp and character power. Including: altoholics whining about their 100th alt they need to farm Lich King on yet another char taking longer to level, tanks whinining about loom healers getting worse, healers whining about tanks getting worse, dps whining about looms being UPLAYABLE (totally totally unplayable) bacause they fall behind in dps against people in non-looms, and, just to put some icing on this shitcake, vanilla proponents adding useful feedback like "lol noobs these days, git gud, in vanilla you had to drink 3 times between each pull, muh difficulty, casuals ruining WoW, ololololo".

I'm not seeing how this paragraph of whining is any better.

[Drekmar]

The same thing happened with flying, they "nerfed" something because they felt it's cheapening and streamlining gameplay too much, then added it in as a reward you have to actively work for. Result? An ocean of fucking tears.

Thats because theres's less than 10k normal players, rest is shitty crybabies that want everything handed to them.