Wait, how does Terokkar Forest exist in Rise of the Horde

[JustRob]

So I just got Rise of the Horde, and in the second or third chapter Durotan and Orgrim go to Terokkar Forest. But how does that even exist yet? I thought it was called Talador or whatever back in those days. Or is AU past Draenor somehow different from MU past Draenor (except for the changes Garrosh made obv)

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Retcon?
/10char

[Cooper]

What happened was Blizzard has no long-term plan and is just making this shit up as they go along.

[Florena]

Rise of the Horde was written before WOD where they either retonned some of the geography, or just made it different from the main timeline. Same reason why WOD doesn't have blades edge mountains yet but the Beyond the Dark Portal novel has Khadgar go there to face Deathwing.

[Deleted]

lorelol

/10

[Khaza-R]

What happened was Blizzard has no long-term plan and is just making this shit up as they go along.

Sadly its this.

[Duravian]

Rise of the Horde was written before WOD where they either retonned some of the geography, or just made it different from the main timeline. Same reason why WOD doesn't have blades edge mountains yet but the Beyond the Dark Portal novel has Khadgar go there to face Deathwing.

They have Blades Edge Mountain somewhere around Bladespire Citadel, maybe we can pretend that's where.

[Caerule]

Eh, Draenei went about naming the lands they settled as well. The Orcs accepted the name Draenor, because they didn't have a word for the world yet. Perhaps they had a word for Talador forest already, Terokkar, and that became the dominant name after all the Draenei calling it Talador were killed off.

I mean yeah, it's a retcon. Blizz didn't want to validate people calling WoD an Outland clone too much. Fair enough. Doesn't mean we can't give it a legitimate possible explanation without hopping aboard the Hate Train. Too many people enter these threads just to shoehorn in their edgy opinion of "Blizz sucks at lore now".

[TheWindWalker]

Too many people enter these threads just to shoehorn in their edgy opinion of "Blizz sucks at lore now".

That's nice but "don't bash Blizzard" aside, it's a central, straight-down-the-road-of-truth, factual statement when someone says "Blizzard just sort of rewrote things because they either forgot or just didn't care." To belittle people by calling them "edgy" isn't helping your position.

[Rixis]

I can't remember much about the book, but it's possible Terrokar Forest is a forest within Talador, so it's more of a sub zone than an actual zone they went too.

[Jester Joe]

Eh, Draenei went about naming the lands they settled as well. The Orcs accepted the name Draenor, because they didn't have a word for the world yet. Perhaps they had a word for Talador forest already, Terokkar, and that became the dominant name after all the Draenei calling it Talador were killed off.

I mean yeah, it's a retcon. Blizz didn't want to validate people calling WoD an Outland clone too much. Fair enough. Doesn't mean we can't give it a legitimate possible explanation without hopping aboard the Hate Train. Too many people enter these threads just to shoehorn in their edgy opinion of "Blizz sucks at lore now".

This would be fair if this wasn't just one in a hundred things they've kept screwing up. I think it is fair to say when WoW started, they really had no long term plan, since that's when most of the major issues with lore seem to have started.

[Jokubas]

It's just a retcon, that's all. Each time we visit Draenor, it gets larger and more biodiverse. Ultimately it's not that bad of a thing as it results in a more believable planet, but it's a retcon. Actually giving a place for the Frostwolves to have come from, for instance, was a huge plus of Warlords of Draenor.

[Wildberry]

They have Blades Edge Mountain somewhere around Bladespire Citadel, maybe we can pretend that's where.

But in Beyond the Dark Portal Blade's Edge is described exactly like Blade's Edge Mountains in BC. Nothing about it matches WoD's portrayal of it.

Eh, Draenei went about naming the lands they settled as well. The Orcs accepted the name Draenor, because they didn't have a word for the world yet. Perhaps they had a word for Talador forest already, Terokkar, and that became the dominant name after all the Draenei calling it Talador were killed off.

Similar to the scenario above, in Rise of the Horde Terokkar Forest is described exactly like BC's Terokkar Forest, it looks nothing like Talador.

I mean yeah, it's a retcon. Blizz didn't want to validate people calling WoD an Outland clone too much. Fair enough. Doesn't mean we can't give it a legitimate possible explanation without hopping aboard the Hate Train. Too many people enter these threads just to shoehorn in their edgy opinion of "Blizz sucks at lore now".

So, people calling a shovel, a shovel are edgy. Instead you suggest we go around and make up headcanon to excuse the fact that Blizzard's writers are awful? You are the literal definition of a white knight.

[Caerule]

That's nice but "don't bash Blizzard" aside, it's a central, straight-down-the-road-of-truth, factual statement when someone says "Blizzard just sort of rewrote things because they either forgot or just didn't care." To belittle people by calling them "edgy" isn't helping your position.

Calling someone's statement edgy I don't think is belittling. I didn't mean it that sarcastically. I mean they want to say something that they feel is daring and provocative against Blizzard. Which I just don't think is something contributing, posting in every thread with a lore question to go "Lore sucks now".

This would be fair if this wasn't just one in a hundred things they've kept screwing up. I think it is fair to say when WoW started, they really had no long term plan, since that's when most of the major issues with lore seem to have started.

It is indeed fair to say that the game series is built with little long-term plans whatsoever. Increasingly so over the course of the games, of course. There have been storytellers working on the game since the start, but not lorekeepers. That's a role that evolved later. Similarly, WoW might have been a different game, had they had a developer put on Immersion & Roleplay. But that's just not what the starting team stood for. I'm reasonably impressed they've been able to squeeze in the lorekeeping as much as they have.

In the end though, it comes down to the game being built as puzzle pieces. Everyone wants and does different parts, and not everyone is able to check if every part fits to their liking. What they do is try to make it fit as best they can in accordance to the will of most. It's always been that way.

In this case, the name Talador has been a conscious decision, not a random mistake. This may be a retcon. There's no way to ask them if it is, or why they made the decision to name it Talador. That is the case with most things. There's nothing wrong with speculating about their motivations, and if we can try and make the puzzle piece fit from our side, however. We do that with a ton of things we can't hope to get a direct answer from Blizzard about.

[Wildberry]

In this case, the name Talador has been a conscious decision, not a random mistake. This may be a retcon. There's no way to ask them if it is, or why they made the decision to name it Talador. That is the case with most things. There's nothing wrong with speculating about their motivations, and if we can try and make the puzzle piece fit from our side, however. We do that with a ton of things we can't hope to get a direct answer from Blizzard about.

It's more than just a simple name change. Here's a quote from Rise of the Horde which describes Terokkar Forest's border with Nagrand:

Now he was on the fringe of the Terokkar forest, pushing forward into its cool, gray-green depths. He had to watch out for the twining roots of the elegant trees lest he trip over them... Soft lights glowed in the green heart of this forest

--Rise of the Horde, p31-2

That sounds a whole lot like BC's Terokkar Forest... It doesn't sound anything like Talador.

[Thage]

The sheer number of retcons they shoehorned into alternate Draenor despite hyping it up as a parallel to the one we read about in Rise of the Horde and saw in Beyond the Dark Portal is what necessitated them to backpedal into the 'blades of grass' alternate universe defense (which is a disservice to the GOOD blades-of-grass alternate universes like DC's pre-Flashpoint Earth One and Marvel's MCU). They missed the point that 'blades of grass' implies the alternate universe is very close to the prime universe with some notable differences (if they'd kept it at 'Garrosh wasn't born and the Horde's tech levels were jumped forward fifty years,' that'd be accurate); they essentially crafted a full Elseworld where there are familiar names with (some) familiar designs, and some familiar locales, but things are vastly different in every way.

[gaotienter]

The Orcs accepted the name Draenor, because they didn't have a word for the world yet.

[Sanguinerd]

Blizzard should really hire some people that actually enjoy lore and make damn sure things are actually accurate and work in a game environment.

Hell I have no qualifications what-so-ever but I'd gladly fact check their shit for free... plenty would.

[Deleted]

Maybe it's autumn by the time we get on alternate Draenor so that's why there is so much red color everywhere

[sam86]

So, people calling a shovel, a shovel are edgy. Instead you suggest we go around and make up headcanon to excuse the fact that Blizzard's writers are awful? You are the literal definition of a white knight.

It's thanks to them that activision still generate $$$ from current form of token-wow

@topic : kosak happened

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Blizzard should really hire some people that actually enjoy lore and make damn sure things are actually accurate and work in a game environment.

You mean like wc3 team?
IMO its more blizzard should leave the company that almost single handled destroyed video game industry forever if not for good guy nintendo pour money from their own pockets to save the market