Priority of getting trinkets for UH

[Deleted]

Since unholy seems to be a bit more viable for mythic encounters based on records in WCL, I'm starting to collect UH gears to prepare for Mythic fights.
Then about the trinkets, I read some threads and look a few top UH records in WCL.
I learn that EDH and Unending Hunger may be BIS for ST, and DC & Reaper's Harvest for aoe.
But it will be a very long way to get all 4 trinkets and a lot of dkp to cost.
I only have hEDH now, normal DC and stone of the elements.
So what will be the better choice to spend dkp on the next trinket in the heroic mode?
DC > reaper > hunger?

And for the current gear, I think stone of the elements is better than normal DC?
Looking forward to answer and thanks.

[Clayney0]

If you're planning to play Unholy only for Mythic, you should keep in mind something:
When singletarget, you'll have to play with Breath to compete with other players. Vial of Convulsive Shadows (mythic, Iron Maidens BRF) is the best Trinket to pair up with Breath since EDH & Reaper's Harvest are not that strong without using Defile/Plague respectively.
For multitarget Fights like Assault & High Council, you definetely want Reaper's Harvest & Discordant Chorus. If you don't have Reaper's Harvest, don't bother playing Unholy for AE fights.
I'm not sure about Unending Hunger tho, it sims lower than EDH on singletarget for me, but maybe i just made a mistake.
I'd probably go with your Trinket priority when playing Unholy only.

[Raikh]

Unholy trinkets you really want to have:

Myithc Vial of convulsive shadows from iron maidens BRF
Unending Hunger from Gorefiend
Discordant Chorus from Zakuun
Reapers harvest from Archimonde

UeH + Vial for ST with BoS
UeH + DC for cleave and frequent bursty AoE, depending on the situation vial when you have BoS
UeH + RH for spread AoE
RH + DC for stacked AoE

Vial will only surpass EDH with the legendary ring and might need some additional ilvl to really get vial up there.
EDH is basically only good for ST and is that fifth option if you lack either vial or UeH for ST but as it currently stands its not likely to be BiS and even if the difference between it and vial will be minimal

[Deleted]

Unholy trinkets you really want to have:

Myithc Vial of convulsive shadows from iron maidens BRF
Unending Hunger from Gorefiend
Discordant Chorus from Zakuun
Reapers harvest from Archimonde

UeH + Vial for ST with BoS
UeH + DC for cleave and frequent bursty AoE, depending on the situation vial when you have BoS
UeH + RH for spread AoE
RH + DC for stacked AoE

Vial will only surpass EDH with the legendary ring and might need some additional ilvl to really get vial up there.
EDH is basically only good for ST and is that fifth option if you lack either vial or UeH for ST but as it currently stands its not likely to be BiS and even if the difference between it and vial will be minimal

How did you test those trinkets?

[Raikh]

SimC and actual raiding for the ones I have.

[Newzini]

SimC and actual raiding for the ones I have.

While EDH does theoretically seem shit for Unholy, for some reason it consistently sims higher than UeH for me. Do you have any thoughts as to why you've seen better performance with UeH in actual raid situations? I have limited experience using UeH, and the RNG of the proc makes me somewhat skeptical.

[Raikh]

While EDH does theoretically seem shit for Unholy, for some reason it consistently sims higher than UeH for me. Do you have any thoughts as to why you've seen better performance with UeH in actual raid situations? I have limited experience using UeH, and the RNG of the proc makes me somewhat skeptical.

SimC wasn't modelling it correctly for a while now The newest version from yesterday is the first iteration where its working correctly.

In all earlier versions EDH was proccing from necrosis which it doesn't do on live servers. That increased the value of the trinket proc by almost 50%. Its now closer to 4,5% of your damage as seen on live rather than the 6,5% form the sims which makes it significantly weaker, for me personally it has lost a value of about 1,5k dps which makes it about 1,2k dps weaker than UeH.
On top of that UeH can with a bit of luck go totally ham. Its not only rppm but can also reproc during its duration, resetting the timer but not the stacks, so chain procs are incredibly strong.

[Newzini]

SimC wasn't modelling it correctly for a while now The newest version from yesterday is the first iteration where its working correctly.

In all earlier versions EDH was proccing from necrosis which it doesn't do on live servers. That increased the value of the trinket proc by almost 50%. Its now closer to 4,5% of your damage as seen on live rather than the 6,5% form the sims which makes it significantly weaker, for me personally it has lost a value of about 1,5k dps which makes it about 1,2k dps weaker than UeH.
On top of that UeH can with a bit of luck go totally ham. Its not only rppm but can also reproc during its duration, resetting the timer but not the stacks, so chain procs are incredibly strong.

ahh okay, that explains some of the ridiculous long 20 stack 'Hungering Blows' durations I was seeing in logs. Thanks for the insight.

[Piz813]

SimC and actual raiding for the ones I have.

I second his opinion. Doing MUCH better as UH with Mythic Vial (and no reapers still, Goddess forbid) on ST and even AoE. DC is a staple so personally I swap only 1 trinket per fight as needed. Vial with ring is nice then every 3rd proc toss in a gargoyle after Dark transform.

its interesting that within the last week or so people are talking about BoS again even after the RP increase. Seen it in action in a H Archie pug and that guy spiked right to 3rd on the charts and held his own till the P3 standard pug wipe during meteors and assholes breaking chains. Personally I struggle to get enough RP up for a DT before hitting the CD macro button... man I miss Nitro Fuel AMS.

[Raikh]

Well the rp increase was only for blood so for unholy its still the same as in BRF.

The story around BoS has a bit to do with the whole situation I think. At the evry beginning unholy was basically the AoE spec. Frost was just so much stronger initially that unholy couls only shine in a big sustained AoE scenario and NP is the go to. Even after the enrfs and now parses on some fights for unholy are quite low due to frost beign viable and competitve with unholy ST. SO the prime reason for those players to play unholy is again teh advanatge of NP.
Its also that unholy didn't get quite the attention at the beginning due to frosts dominance and by now many infos are outdated because things didn't turn out as expected.

The big discussion around BoS started when the legendary ring kicked in as you can line them up and as the rign provides a substantial amount of your damage everything you cna line up with it gets really really strong. While BoS was already go to for ST and light cleave like in BRF thi spronounced BoS so much that its nothing to overlook anymore, not even for the ones who play frost for ST.
Because tbh without the ring unholy BoS and frost dw are pretty similar for ST, so for someone who plays both specs its not really a big deal to find out how to exactly optimize unholy ST damage. But if suddenly unholy gets the edge or seemingly does so, you might look more closely if you want to optmize and a lot of people want to.

There were also some things wrong with simcraft for a while, str trinkets got gutted at the beginning of 6.2 and the rings were excluded from sims until they were accessible ingame. And a sit turned out now, all those changes and how reality plays out just benefits unholy BoS very well. We could even reach points with the upgrading legendary ring where we play BoS on all encounters, as the burst will be extremely significant and any form of adds will just evaporate.

And also for BoS. You really don't want to DT before BoS if you can't pre soak. The delay is absolutely not worth it for 2-3 seconds faster DT. Ideally you're belf and can just mask the global for DT with torrent or line it up with ams soaking. Especially with the ring its incredibly improtant to get BoS into the damage window as its your biggest burst CD and far more important than for instance gargoyle or ghoul damage.

[iky43210]

Discord and reaper for mythic reaver and council?

[Raikh]

Reaver is a BoS fight. Bombs are too insignificant to make NP work well and is far from making RH viable. Same for DC, rather pick a ST ttrinekt for that one.

Council you can go NP+RH if you can dot dia AND pad the hell out of blademaster images. Had pretty similar results for BoS and NP so far with not too much image damage as they die quite fast for us. Also you go completely berserk if you get first fel rage with BoS as you get rp in fel rage and you have BoS for the whole fel rage phase in addition to the pull.

RH is really only a good deal if you have wandering palgue at 9%+ of your damage, if you want a benchmark.

[Winddweller]

Raikh,so if running BoS and soaking before the start do we prioritize using DT before starting BoS?
And could you tell me why did you and some other top dk's move from death pact to death siphon?

[Raikh]

You don't want to delay BoS in favor of getting DT up. The 10% damage youg et a few seconds earlier are not worth losing uptime of BoS on the leg ring and also pot. The pot alone should is a bigger damage buff to BoS than crazed monstrosity.

Midifght I would try to sync it to have a significant amount of time left on DT when you get BoS back. If you however don't manage to achieve that still prioritize BoS as you really want it used in combination with the ring and/or pot.
But you definitely transform your ghoul during BoS.

I think not all dks are using this for raiding but for other stuff as its a great talent for soloing being it dailies or old raids. I personally use it in raids for flexibility reasons. While its a dps loss to use it, its always available and you can potentially get way more heal out it than with DP. You can thoereitcally get through most boss AoE damage on your own when you spam DSi, especially on bosses with damage modifiers like kilrogg, gorefiend or tyrant.
Its surely not optimal for every boss and situation but generally its a fantastic sustain talent. With higher ilvls you can get huge heals out of single uses, especially with stat procs/ring/pot and in emergency you can survive A LOT more than with DP.

I have saved myself from dire situations quite often where DP probably wouldn't have been enough or would have been on CD already and surviving is always worth a minor dps loss. Situations like getting some stacks too much fo fire on reaver, dropping brutally low in a pound from kormrok, bringing me back up from multiple souls being soaked at the same time on gorefiend and so on.
You can theoretically also use it as a ranged filler but its damage is not really worth it if you wouldn't overcap runes while out of range for quite a while.

[Winddweller]

Ok i wasnt sure if it was used in a rotation as a new trick/filler thanks for clearing that up,and thanks for the DT/BoS priority advice!

[Piz813]

You don't want to delay BoS in favor of getting DT up. The 10% damage youg et a few seconds earlier are not worth losing uptime of BoS on the leg ring and also pot. The pot alone should is a bigger damage buff to BoS than crazed monstrosity.

Midifght I would try to sync it to have a significant amount of time left on DT when you get BoS back. If you however don't manage to achieve that still prioritize BoS as you really want it used in combination with the ring and/or pot.
But you definitely transform your ghoul during BoS.

I think not all dks are using this for raiding but for other stuff as its a great talent for soloing being it dailies or old raids. I personally use it in raids for flexibility reasons. While its a dps loss to use it, its always available and you can potentially get way more heal out it than with DP. You can thoereitcally get through most boss AoE damage on your own when you spam DSi, especially on bosses with damage modifiers like kilrogg, gorefiend or tyrant.
Its surely not optimal for every boss and situation but generally its a fantastic sustain talent. With higher ilvls you can get huge heals out of single uses, especially with stat procs/ring/pot and in emergency you can survive A LOT more than with DP.

I have saved myself from dire situations quite often where DP probably wouldn't have been enough or would have been on CD already and surviving is always worth a minor dps loss. Situations like getting some stacks too much fo fire on reaver, dropping brutally low in a pound from kormrok, bringing me back up from multiple souls being soaked at the same time on gorefiend and so on.
You can theoretically also use it as a ranged filler but its damage is not really worth it if you wouldn't overcap runes while out of range for quite a while.

awesome BoS tips for Fel Reaver, thank you Sir! Can't wait to try it in raid tonight.

keep this thread rolling, so far its the best DK thread I read in weeks

[Frolk]

At what point does HFC trinkets become better than Mythic socket Vial at ST?
Ive yet to get HC discord, harvest or drinking horn, just normal of em

[Deleted]

At what point does HFC trinkets become better than Mythic socket Vial at ST?
Ive yet to get HC discord, harvest or drinking horn, just normal of em

I would be using that Vial on ST combined with legendary ring & BoS, over any HFC trinket I think. ON ST! With drinking horn, normal or higher once you get that.

[Raikh]

As of the latest sims vial and UeH are the best ST trinkets for unholy. Vial only though if you are using BoS and have the legendary ring, otherwise its EDH over vial.

[Deleted]

If I have legendary ring and EDH, but no Vial, should I run BoS or Defile for singletarget?