Whats the deal with LFR

[NewDoom]

Hi, I've heard so much negative stuff about LFR, I wanted to know why. I asked a few people and was told its for retards, apparently if they removed LFR guilds could bolster their members and do more 25 man raiding. Others were complaining its not fair on "real raiders" that casual players might get close to their gearing or ilvl. So what are your thoughts, do you want it removed for similar reasons or should it stay?

[Nilinor]

Hi, I've heard so much negative stuff about LFR, I wanted to know why. I asked a few people and was told its for retards, apparently if they removed LFR guilds could bolster their members and do more 25 man raiding. Others were complaining its not fair on "real raiders" that casual players might get close to their gearing or ilvl. So what are your thoughts, do you want it removed for similar reasons or should it stay?

LFR doesnt get you anywhere near the current ilvl of raiding, the Apexis gear is far better than anything you can get in LFR.

[smokii]

LFR should have more than just faceroll difficulty

why they made it a specific faceroll difficulty lower than normal, i will never quite understand. especially seeing as what is now normal, was LFR in cata/mop.

LFR can be toxic sometimes, but generally, i find most people just stay quiet these days.

oh yea, also, the ilvl of LFR gear is just abysmal, it's mostly pointless because of it. they need to put LFR and normal difficulty on par with each other, both in terms of difficulty and loot.

[Deleted]

LFR should have more than just faceroll difficulty

No. Automated grouping is absurd for challenging content. Blizz clearly saw this with cata heroic dungeons.

[lunchbox2042]

LFR in its current state is only useful if you're interested in the legendary ring but can't raid every week. The gear is outclassed by Apexis upgrades in Tanaan.

[Jensxo]

LFR gives new players who want to start raiding the completely wrong idea about what raiding actually is. In a guild - You don't get rewarded for being AFK. You don't get rewarded for doing Sub par dps/hps. None of the bosses mechanics in LFR resemble any of the mechanics in normal/heroic/mythic....If you stand in something you shouldn't be standing in then your going to die.

It rewards players for not being good at the game. I don't care if their gear they get is terrible. I preferred the game much more when there wasn't any of these stupid 4 difficulty modes. When guilds weren't separated by "Difficulty options" but separated by the actual raids they were doing at the time.

LFR is suppose to serve as an introduction to raiding yes? I don't see how anyone who comes out of LFR is going to actually get picked up in a normal mode guild considering in LFR you literally can AFK and get rewarded for it.

I don't like how more and more of this game is becoming casual. All of tanaan jungles reps can be finished within 3 weeks of it being released. You log on once a day for 1 hour and do the 5 or 6 dailies......and then your done.

LFR also has single handedly destroyed communities on servers. It doesn't hold people accountable for their actions. Back in the day when the game didn't have any of this LFG/LFD...you had to actually find people from trade chat just like everyone else did. Say what you will about the constant spam....you still got to communicate and interact with other players. I made a lot of friends doing the heroics in BC. It wasn't a cake walk. The 5 people in my group were equally challenged and had a lot of fun. We eventually ended up raiding together because of how fun it was playing with each other.

I'm not asking for the removal of LFR. I'm asking for the removal of every damn raid difficulty in the game. Go back to the Benchmark raiding difficulty. Karazhan/gruuls/mag was entry level raiding for a lot of people. If you were good enough to do karazhan and you eventually got most of the gear you needed from karazhan and full t4 etc. You were good enough to start doing SSC/TK then onto the bigger and better raids. It gave people a real sense of progression when you finish a raid and actually MOVE on to a completely different raid instead of just moving onto a higher difficulty of the raid you just completed.

I don't know why LFD/LFG was ever put into the game. Completely destroyed pugging. Completely destroyed the social aspect and community of servers.

"An MMO can't thrive when it's worst players perceive they are doing the same content as it's best players" PreachWoW.

That quote holds so much truth.

Everything is incredibly accessible in this game now and theres nothing to "work" towards. Theres nothing to keep you playing anymore. And people wonder why theres such little content in the game. That's because all the content is so easily accessible and it was never this easy to just clear all the raids in an expansion like we are doing right now.

Remember back in BC/WOTLK when you had guilds doing Naxx...ulduar....TOTC/TOGC....Icc? You remember how diverse the server community was? Even in BC you had players being separated by actual different raids instead of a difficulty setting. Most of the raiders said it back then and they continue to say it now. Repetition of a raid is not progression.

And regardless of what most of you people think...if your going to raid. Then actually be prepared to "Progress" on a boss....be prepared to wipe a lot. Be prepared to spend a lot of time with your guildies most nights. That's where the social aspect of WoW came into play and that's what keeps people still playing to this day. The guilds and players that people played with all those years ago is the sole reason why people continue to come back and play this game.

Raiding used to be the pinnacle of WoW's endgame. It used to require hard work and dedication in the game. It's now just a theme park with free entry. People come and go instead of sticking around. And that's why Blizzards stupid game model they have now isn't going to work for them in the future. No one wants to do content they've already done.


People wonder why there is hardly any 5 man engaging content in the game anymore that's because Blizzard have funneled everyone into doing raiding. So why make 5 man content when EVERYONE is just doing raiding.

The game use to be a lot more diverse. You had 5 man content. 10 man content.. 25 man content. 15 man content. 40 man content.

If casuals want to play this game and suck at it that's fine by me but i play this game because i liked to be challenged. And it's no longer becoming challenging.


The LFR players are going to bitch about how "no guild will accept them". Maybe because in normal raiding and above - you don't REWARDED FOR BEING TERRIBLE AT EFFING GAME. Blizzard needs to encourage people to improve at the game. Sometimes they need to force people to improve if they want to see content. That gives content longevity...does nobody understand this?


And when people say "not everyone wants to be challenged" THATS FINE IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE CHALLENGED. BUT BLIZZARD SHOULDN'T START MAKING MORE CONTENT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO CHALLENGED OVER THE PEOPLE WHO DO ENJOY DIFFICULTY IN A GAME.

[cFortyfive]

No. Automated grouping is absurd for challenging content.

As long as blizzard isn't willing to make the necessary changes that's certainly true.
Anyways something something about hooks. Lfr has so many issues and being filled with bads is probably not even the worst.

[Zelendria]

If casuals want to play this game and suck at it that's fine by me but i play this game because i liked to be challenged. And it's no longer becoming challenging.

How far into Mythic are you?....

[Nilinor]

How far into Mythic are you?....

No.. no

Shut the hell up, no.

Thats not how "being challenged" works. It never was. You can't solo the newest raids, you have to work as a team, no matter how amazing you are individually it requires a group effort to be successful at the mythic tier. My guild is currently 5/13 mythic, and I personally haven't found difficulty alone in anything I have done so far, it may take time but time=/= difficulty. I am one man out of 19 other people who also have varying degrees of skill.

The phrase "how far in mythic are you" is stupid, because he/she is one person out of 20 people doing it. You could play perfectly and still wipe because of things other people have to do.

As Captain Picard once told Data "You can make all the right moves and still lose"

[Nnyco]

The problem is more the "special snowflake"- people, as already seen in this thread, they think because they raid higher difficulties than others, they are allowed to bash on others or are not allowed todo LFR.

If you feel like you need a bigger challenge, for whatever reason, go do heroic or even mythic, but please stop bashin on LFR and the people in it, do your thing and let them do their thing, dont try to take away others expirience, because you feel entitled todo so because you are slightly better.

[Ornerybear]

I've never wanted to raid higher difficulties more than since they introduced LFR. It's a good bridge. to the uninitiated, raiding can be a daunting transition when you've never done it as well as the fact that without a good guild (which i dont have) I am forced into PUGs. So I only run LFR and pugs. Since HFC, I've found people in LFR to be really fun and handling wipes well. I've actually seen a few groups kick the toxic players.

I find PUGs to be way worse than LFR. even for normal pugs people are elitist and expect perfection from a bunch of randoms who may or may not know the fights very well. it's like expecting an all-star team to play as well together as a world series team. not all pugs are like this, i've run into some really patient great ones, but some just make me think, "this really isnt worth my time, I have to deal with self important jerkoffs at work all day."

[caervek]

The big problem with LFR is that in WoD it's a complete farse. The is zero skill involved and it actually detracts from the game more than it contributes because it encourages bad playing.

Let me explain that:

• The is zero skill involved, just hit the boss, one or two fights may have a mechanic but you will probably have a real raider on hand gearing up an alt who can do that for you.
• You learn nothing that helps you progress to normal raiding (except maybe the bosses name) you're even trainproof!
• The is no need for any communication with anyone you meet, hence why only one or two people ever speak, maybe (unless there's a wipe then chat goes toxic).
• It is essentially just a lot of people hitting the same target dummy in the hope that after a few minutes it will reward their boredom with an epic so they can leave.
• The gear isn't even as good as the stuff you get for soloing in Tanaan.
• Every time you die you get stronger anyway so it's guaranteed to die eventually.

By way of comparison, back when Blizzard put effort into dungeons and they let you acquire decent loot (via epic drops or JP/VP) it encouraged people to understand mechanics and their class abilities. When LFR was actually sort of hard you had to learn abilities that would kill you like on Ultraxion, Deathwing, Duramu, Garrosh, etc and this would help you when you did normal.

[NewDoom]

I liked the challenge of TBC and the sense of community when you could only queue with folks from your own realm, Wrath gave us LFD which imo was the beginning of end of the community as we knew it, I really don't object to lfr as it has no influence on me whatsoever, but the fun of completing the heroics and raids just seems meh to me now, WoW is slowly dying a painful death so any enjoyment that anyone can get from this tired old mmo is fine by me.

[Deleted]

Remove LFR queue tool, replace it with Player controlled groups as Flex difficulty, same difficulty/loot rules as now, except give the management and punishment authority to players. Just add a "Flex" difficulty in the custom group search tool, and promote it as the way raiding should be done.

LFR has always been the place where you expect griefing, AFK, people queueing as healer as dps, ninja pulls, all sorts of ass hattery, just because of a simple reason, they can. You do that same in groups where players have more power, you're removed. Also works the other way around, if you are joining some jerks group, you leave and search for new one.

[goblingirl]

My thoughts:

LFR in Cata sucked. It wasn't too hard, but the group loot rolls were super annoying, especially the harassment you would get if you won something that somebody else wanted. So them changing it to personal loot was a very good thing. Dragonsoul as a raid sucked in general, not just for LFR.

MoP: LFR was actually pretty good. You could carry a few scrubs, but the tanks needed to know what they were doing, and the fights weren't a faceroll until the raid had been out awhile and people in better gear were slumming with their friends helping out. Some fights stayed challenging for an unorganized group for nearly the entire final tier in SoO (Nazgrim, Garrosh come to mind). I also went in there with raiding toons just to grab the odd piece to finish a set bonus when I wasn't getting lucky in higher tier drops.

WoD: LFR is now too easy. People are solo tanking LFR HFC already. Half the raid sleeps through it afk. Boring to heal. The gear is crappy too.

Future: I'd prefer that they bump it back up to MoP difficulty, because it actually did help teach people that mechanics exist and perhaps they should do them. I also think the set bonus pieces should be added back in.

[twiddler]

As long as blizzard isn't willing to make the necessary changes that's certainly true.
Anyways something something about hooks. Lfr has so many issues and being filled with bads is probably not even the worst.

Exactly. WoW's horrendous matchmaking isn't a mathematical problem--it is a Blizzard problem.

[Deleted]

Hi, I've heard so much negative stuff about LFR, I wanted to know why. I asked a few people and was told its for retards, apparently if they removed LFR guilds could bolster their members and do more 25 man raiding. Others were complaining its not fair on "real raiders" that casual players might get close to their gearing or ilvl. So what are your thoughts, do you want it removed for similar reasons or should it stay?

I don't think the existence of LFR restricts the pool of normal raiders. Removing it wouldn't help in that sense. It would only remove options for more casual players / legendary quests / bootstrap alt gearing.

[Deleted]

It's a very impersonal experience and you don't have to be a retard to do it it's a nice way to gear up twinks.

[goblingirl]

I don't think the existence of LFR restricts the pool of normal raiders. Removing it wouldn't help in that sense. It would only remove options for more casual players / legendary quests / bootstrap alt gearing.

Exactly. If LFR was gone tomorrow, guilds would not be suddenly flooded with applicants. Most people in LFR are: people who won't ever join an organized raiding guild because they can't or won't do the schedule/politics/etc., or people on alts.

I mean I play six toons at level cap and I have two mains that do higher level raiding. The four alts do LFR for fun and profit. I would miss it if I couldn't take my alts in there. I definitely do not have time to put all six toons in scheduled guild raids, but I can log on at an odd time of day and queue for an LFR wing easily.

[Zelendria]

Everybody that beats down on LFR seems to forget for many new players it's a starting point not ending point.