20 man mythic and its real impact.

[Deleted]

Tell us where the big bad raider touched you.

No but really, you pretty irrationally tried to tie all that to raiding.

Not really.

Think of a game change since TBC and who it is aimed at pleasing.

Casual players were happy with long levelling times and meaningful, grindy professions. Where did all that go and why was it taken out?

[Deleted]

No need for a blue post, just play the game

Think of a change and then think who it benefitted.

Long levelling times? Gone. Easier to go raiding.
Professions as an alt path? Gone. Easier for raiders.
5 man content worthwhile? Gone. Lets go raiding.
LFR exists? To justify the hardcore raiding budget.

I'm currently on a private TBC server and it';s night and day. The TBC game is engaging from the get go, there are level 5 mobs which interrupt and CC, you can't pull more than one at once and levelling up take more than 12 hours. All of this excellent gameplay was taken out so that paragon and chums can get their 500 attempts at Ultramythicheroicepic Shitlord Noobkiller in the first week of raiding.

Normal level raiding is so retardedly easy that the most casual players can do it with their eyes closed. They aren't going to clear it the first week, but that's the point of 'having a challenge'. If you haven't killed even a few bosses on normal in WoD yet, then this game really isn't for you. Unsub, and please don't let your whinging influence this game, seriously.

My fucking grandmother could kill HM normal bosses at this point. What fucking drug are you even taking?

[Glorious Leader]

Tell us where the big bad raider touched you.

No but really, you pretty irrationally tried to tie all that to raiding.

Because it is all tied to raiding. Virtually every shitty change made to the game has been because of raiding or raiders. They have been catered too so hard core it's not even funny. If the actual population who played this game was catered too you'd have more hats and less raids. More pet battles. More lvling and questing. More progression outside of raiding.

[Osmeric]

Blizzard designed all the fights to be much easier with larger groups to help mythic guilds with their recruitment.

I'm not seeing that as the reason.

More likely, they decided "flex is for F&F guilds, which means it has to be beneficial to the group to bring Sam Scrub along, which means the increase in boss difficulty from adding Sam has to be less than what Sam contributes". But then they decided this should go from 10 all the way to 30, which means 30 will be way easier than 10 for groups of the same average gear and skill.

In optimizing for groups to want to bring individual baddies, they had the unfortunate effect of penalizing small groups. Good for the individual, bad for the collective.

If most F&F guilds had 30 raiders, this would have all worked out. But that's not how it is.

[Deleted]

I advocate that the game be catered towards the average player, .

The average player is halfway through HFC on normal level at this point, not struggling to kill even the first boss like you seem to make out. Please take your bullshit away from this discussion.

[Kyanion]

Normal level raiding is so retardedly easy that the most casual players can do it with their eyes closed. They aren't going to clear it the first week, but that's the point of 'having a challenge'. If you haven't killed even a few bosses on normal in WoD yet, then this game really isn't for you. Unsub, and please don't let your whinging influence this game, seriously.

My fucking grandmother could kill HM normal bosses at this point. What fucking drug are you even taking?

You do realize that numbers have been posted to show that a large portion of the player base does not clear normal right? You feel Heroic Mode is LFR and that is just 100% wrong. And to say people should unsub because they haven't downed some bosses in WoD? Lol you are very out of tune with the player base of this game.

[Glorious Leader]

Normal level raiding is so retardedly easy that the most casual players can do it with their eyes closed. They aren't going to clear it the first week, but that's the point of 'having a challenge'. If you haven't killed even a few bosses on normal in WoD yet, then this game really isn't for you. Unsub, and please don't let your whinging influence this game, seriously.

My fucking grandmother could kill HM normal bosses at this point. What fucking drug are you even taking?

Actually that's not really true as many f and f guilds struggled with ridiculously over tuned normals this expansion but even if it were true it misses the point entirely. These people.do not like or eant to raid period end of story. They've been bribed and bullied into it at every possible opportunity but it hasn't satisfied them because fuck raiding they don't want too.

[Notdev]

Mythic raiders hold the game together. They make addons, guides, websites, videos, are insanely popular on twitch, etc. People who have never even touched a heroic/mythic raid boss are interested in the world first race too.

The "5,000" subs of mythic raiders are worth a LOT more than 5,000 subs.

And I guarantee no mythic raider advocated Blizzard killing everything else in the game. I'm not a world first level raider, but I do enjoy mythic raiding, and I definitely don't like what Blizzard did to the game outside of raids.

[Dormie]

Not really.

Think of a game change since TBC and who it is aimed at pleasing.

Casual players were happy with long levelling times and meaningful, grindy professions. Where did all that go and why was it taken out?

For whiny people that wanted to get to level cap asap. In no way is it tied specifically to raiders.

[Deleted]

Normal level raiding is so retardedly easy that the most casual players can do it with their eyes closed.

Nope, normal raiding is actually far too difficult for the average player.

They aren't going to clear it the first week, but that's the point of 'having a challenge'. If you haven't killed even a few bosses on normal in WoD yet, then this game really isn't for you. Unsub, and please don't let your whinging influence this game, seriously.

My fucking grandmother could kill HM normal bosses at this point. What fucking drug are you even taking?

You are massively overstating what the average player is capable of.

If you usually raid mythic - start a new toon, get yourself some basic farmable non raid gear and do 50% of your usual dps. You are still better than 75% of players.

[Strydr0]

Game died for me when 10 man was removed, I was able to pull constant 95 + percentiles (ended SOO with a couple bosses with a average of a 99 percentile). I was able to join most guilds I apped to. But as someone with huge anxiety raiding 10 man and getting to know the 14 or so people in the group was hard, 20 man I end up being a semi loner with like 3 friends in the guild and not knowing anyone else (Usually the other people that play my class, there is like a special bond there). Right now I jump from cesspool guild to cesspool guild as I recently came back, but it's just not that fun for me anymore. Alot of my friends who raided top tier ended up quitting, and the only one who was still raiding top 50 just quit the game. Making it a roster of 15 would help, because then most raidteams can keep there 20 players, scrap the terribads/players who leave each xpac and have a stable roster.

[Deleted]

For whiny people that wanted to get to level cap asap. In no way is it tied specifically to raiders.

Given only 10% of people raided back in TBC and theres only raiding to do at level cap, who the fuck was doing the whining? lol

[Glorious Leader]

The average player is halfway through HFC on normal level at this point, not struggling to kill even the first boss like you seem to make out.

Lol... I'm sure theirs a number somewhere to back this up. Hey if they keep loosing people it may be true. The 9nly ones you'd have left would be raiders so that makes sense. They aren't quite at that point yet I thunk.

[stormgust]

It's not that 20m mythic is inherently bad, it's just that they introduced it when the game did not allow for it anymore. A lot of former 10hc groups were raiding together for years, that is to say, it eliminated merging raids as a suitable option given how tight knitted those groups already were. Thus the only option was for most raids (those who wanted to progress to 20m mythic) to recruit 10+ more players. Not a reasonable assumption on low/medium populated realms, and given how bad WoD turned out, on high populated you more or less had enough players for already established raids (not for filling up new groups ...)

[Deleted]

Mythic raiders hold the game together. They make addons, guides, websites, videos, are insanely popular on twitch, etc. People who have never even touched a heroic/mythic raid boss are interested in the world first race too.

The "5,000" subs of mythic raiders are worth a LOT more than 5,000 subs.

And I guarantee no mythic raider advocated Blizzard killing everything else in the game. I'm not a world first level raider, but I do enjoy mythic raiding, and I definitely don't like what Blizzard did to the game outside of raids.

Most players don't have any add ons, don't read guides, don't raid beyond LFR (this is even when it's basically all there is to do mind you) and don't care. When all other content but raiding is removed from the game, 50% of them quit.

You guys live in a bubble.

"Hardcore raiders don't matter financially to blizzard. At all. We could all quit tomorrow and Blizzard would not notice." - Lore.

[Osmeric]

Lol... I'm sure theirs a number somewhere to back this up. Hey if they keep loosing people it may be true. The 9nly ones you'd have left would be raiders so that makes sense. They aren't quite at that point yet I thunk.

According to wowprogress, there are about 21K guilds that have downed N Gorefiend. If we generously say 25 raiders in each, that's about 10% of the player population (or what the population was at the end of Q2).

[Strydr0]

Nope, normal raiding is actually far too difficult for the average player.



You are massively overstating what the average player is capable of.

If you usually raid mythic - start a new toon, get yourself some basic farmable non raid gear and do 50% of your usual dps. You are still better than 75% of players.

Raiding isn't to hard for the average player, my friend who is terrible at the game, refuses to play with any add-ons and pretty much rp's and does random bg's all day, I got invited to a garrosh kill to get him some loot, he didn't die that often, he did decent dps (All of this without any add-ons including dbm), the issue is people are to elitist. Pretty sure you could teach a 7 year old to raid if you really wanted to. The issue is for them they don't have the confidence to join a group, or if they do it's a cesspool guild and cesspool guilds suck and raiding with them is terrible.

[Kyanion]

Given only 10% of people raided back in TBC and theres only raiding to do at level cap, who the fuck was doing the whining? lol

back in TBC there was dailies and other things to do, Netherwing, Ogri'la etc. In WoD there are plenty of things to do as well but the busy work of dungeons/dailies and the like is not really there.

- - - Updated - - -

Raiding isn't to hard for the average player, my friend who is terrible at the game, refuses to play with any add-ons and pretty much rp's and does random bg's all day, I got invited to a garrosh kill to get him some loot, he didn't die that often, he did decent dps (All of this without any add-ons including dbm), the issue is people are to elitist. Pretty sure you could teach a 7 year old to raid if you really wanted to. The issue is for them they don't have the confidence to join a group, or if they do it's a cesspool guild and cesspool guilds suck and raiding with them is terrible.

Nah that is just an outlier really, you had a friend that did well that is not a representation of the majority of the playerbase.

[Dormie]

If normal raiding is too hard for the average person then our society is doomed.

Truth is it's not too hard, people just can't be bothered to pay attention for the duration to the fight. If you can't manage normal, you shouldn't expect to clear a raid. Outside of normal Arch, that is. The last phase is crazy.

[Deleted]

You do realize that numbers have been posted to show that a large portion of the player base does not clear normal right?.

You mean throughout 6.1 when the game lost 5 million players? Those 5 million players didn't hang around to clear normal before they quit? Wow fucking surprise.

I know raiding isn't for everybody, and I know that most people in the game do not raid at all. However, that is not because Normal is too hard. It's because people aren't interested in raiding. If you are really trying to get better at the game and raid, you will clear normal. I know some very very very casual raiders who progress fine on normal 10 man with no complaints.