Opinion: my reason of WoW's recent demise and subscription dwindling

[Nysty]

I agree with some of your points but I'm not sure I can agree with your overall conclusion. Much like the majority of opinion pieces it's all subjective and might be wildly inaccurate.

For example, from my experience wPvP has actually increased this expansion. The combination of a loss of flying and the increased popularity of alts has led to me experiencing a lot of additional wPvP action especially around the entrance to raids.

Similarly, heirlooms have been around since early Wrath (ie at least 6 years now) and the experience I had then was that they actually led to increased player retention. Plenty of players who said they'd of unsubbed for a month or 2 rather than level and gear up a new alt were encouraged to stay purely because there was a quicker route to max level now. The last 2 expacs added what, 1 slot for heirlooms in the neck piece? Unless I'm grossly mistaken on that point I can't see it being a deal breaker that 1 new piece was added or they'd of quit years ago over it.

Gathering is nearly gone for sure, damn now it means I need to buy from players deliberately undercutting each other with stuff they got from their garrison rather than the botters who deliberately uncut everyone. It most definitely made gathering a less worthwhile profession however, at the least they should of made the battle pets from mining/herbalism only drop if you had the profession. Literally the only people I know who've had them drop are people who no longer have gathering professions.

Sure professions are time gated and mostly suck. Sure am glad that they never had stuff like living steel, titansteel, dreamcloth and many other things in other expacs on daily cooldowns which time gated the benefits you can get from crafting! Literally the only difference now is that you can no longer trade the items such as titansteel.

Customization would of been more exciting if it really existed. However the reality is that it never really did exist, just the illusion of it. Guilds with standards would often armory you before accepting you and if your reforges/gemming/enchants weren't up to the required level you would either get outright denied or told fix x/y/z and come back. People didn't gem crit for the potential at big numbers if it was their worst secondary and they could get 4x the dps increase by gemming haste. You weren't a spec that favoured crit/haste over all and yet decided to reforge/gem/enchant into pure mastery so you can be the most masterful mage/rogue/hunter in all the land for RP reasons. Most of the customizations that did happen were can I afford to gem full epic gems or should I just stick with blue gems til I get my BiS or hmm should I get the cheaper, serviceable enchant on my weapon or go all out on the best one?

Hunting for rare items is a minor thing really in my mind. I don't honestly know anyone who did it. Lots who were super happy to be farming Karazhan for the mount/pets/transmog who would celebrate if a Blade of Wizardry dropped and they could make a nice profit from their run as a result but last time I knew people to deliberately run an instance regularly for specific drops was old SFK for their twink weapons.

[TylerWildstar]

I'm normally pretty apologistic for blizzard, but I think Agraynel has the right of it. If the incoming expansion isn't amazing, I don't think I'll be playing anymore. Not because I can't afford it, or don't have the time, but simply because there's no carrot on the stick anymore.

[Ermelloth]

Hunting for rare items is a minor thing really in my mind. I don't honestly know anyone who did it.

I've made a fortune of about 750k gold on farming and selling transmogrification items. Salvage Yard obliterated this profit niche. Some stuff which took months to get, can now drop to any fool for free from a salvaged crate.

[Nysty]

I've made a fortune of about 750k gold on farming and selling transmogrification items. Salvage Yard obliterated this profit niche.

Fair enough but I can't imagine too many being upset that 10,000 people benefit from 1 persons loss of income. Is it a major annoyance for you? Sure. Does the average player seeking a piece for transmog gear get upset that they now spend 5k for a piece rather than 75k, if they could even find it at all? Pretty sure the answer to that is a big fat nope.

[TylerWildstar]

I agree with some of your points but I'm not sure I can agree with your overall conclusion. Much like the majority of opinion pieces it's all subjective and might be wildly inaccurate.

For example, from my experience wPvP has actually increased this expansion. The combination of a loss of flying and the increased popularity of alts has led to me experiencing a lot of additional wPvP action especially around the entrance to raids.

YMMV, I have seen next to no world pvp this expansion in draenor after the first week. Luck of the draw I suppose.

Similarly, heirlooms have been around since early Wrath (ie at least 6 years now) and the experience I had then was that they actually led to increased player retention. Plenty of players who said they'd of unsubbed for a month or 2 rather than level and gear up a new alt were encouraged to stay purely because there was a quicker route to max level now. The last 2 expacs added what, 1 slot for heirlooms in the neck piece? Unless I'm grossly mistaken on that point I can't see it being a deal breaker that 1 new piece was added or they'd of quit years ago over it.

They added necklace and rings in WoD. The issue is more to do with the Item squish, which made it so that no gear is ever better than your heirlooms, not even epics, even ignoring the +xp gain on them.

Sure professions are time gated and mostly suck. Sure am glad that they never had stuff like living steel, titansteel, dreamcloth and many other things in other expacs on daily cooldowns which time gated the benefits you can get from crafting! Literally the only difference now is that you can no longer trade the items such as titansteel.

Being soulbound is a huge difference. Its the difference between being able to buy other people's materials at a reliable price (once the market settles) and make as much profit as there is demand, and being gated to a limit of how much gold you can make per day/week.

Customization would of been more exciting if it really existed. However the reality is that it never really did exist, just the illusion of it. Guilds with standards would often armory you before accepting you and if your reforges/gemming/enchants weren't up to the required level you would either get outright denied or told fix x/y/z and come back. People didn't gem crit for the potential at big numbers if it was their worst secondary and they could get 4x the dps increase by gemming haste. You weren't a spec that favoured crit/haste over all and yet decided to reforge/gem/enchant into pure mastery so you can be the most masterful mage/rogue/hunter in all the land for RP reasons. Most of the customizations that did happen were can I afford to gem full epic gems or should I just stick with blue gems til I get my BiS or hmm should I get the cheaper, serviceable enchant on my weapon or go all out on the best one?

It wasn't about customization, it never really was. It was showing who actually cared about eeking out the most dps/hps and who just wanted to slack off and get handed loot.

Hunting for rare items is a minor thing really in my mind. I don't honestly know anyone who did it. Lots who were super happy to be farming Karazhan for the mount/pets/transmog who would celebrate if a Blade of Wizardry dropped and they could make a nice profit from their run as a result but last time I knew people to deliberately run an instance regularly for specific drops was old SFK for their twink weapons.

You've made it apparent with the rest of your post that you aren't into making gold. This further cements it. Gold making is a huge part of the game for a lot of people.

[Ermelloth]

Of course, I'm giving you just an example. This was very important for me; professions and their combat benefit was to someone else, socketing / reforging / maxing stats - for somebody else as well (read the reply about stats).

In the end, raiding, arena, Ashran and garrisons is what remained. And it's way too straightforward and not enough.

[TylerWildstar]

Fair enough but I can't imagine too many being upset that 10,000 people benefit from 1 persons loss of income. Is it a major annoyance for you? Sure. Does the average player seeking a piece for transmog gear get upset that they now spend 5k for a piece rather than 75k, if they could even find it at all? Pretty sure the answer to that is a big fat nope.

Why even have item based transmog at all then? Why not just be able to pick any piece of gear off any mob/boss you have killed that drops it? That would also benefit the vast majority of players.

[Spinster]

The whole dumbing down thing is particularly weird when it comes to leveling. Remember when you could die in a starting area after the first couple quests? What was wrong with that? Remember how challenging the first area past the starting area could be and how that taught you to be smart about approaching mobs? I mean, those murlocs in Elwynn Forest? They taught you to THINK and not rush in.

Questing should make players learn. It is too easy.

[Ermelloth]

Spinster, so true.. I actually MISS having to eat and drink after each pack of mobs.

Look at the food.. nearly no one is using it anymore unless it's a feast adding endgame stats in raids.

Why did some people even create a so-called "Iron Man's challenge" concept? Exactly the reason.

[Sussemilch]

unpopular puffin time: Imho, the reason for Warcraft's meteoric rise and recent decline are pretty much the same: Environment.

On New Year's Eve in 2004 I popped the plastic on my WoW purchase. I had recently acquired DSL at home and was reveling in the internet access that I had. It was so far superior to dialup (56k) that I was pretty jazzed doing anything online. I had been playing WarCraft 3 maps on BattleNet with friends from work (tower defense maps, DotA maps, etc.) and when I saw the box on the shelf at WalMart I couldn't help buying it immediately. I assumed it was WarCraft 4.

I fired it up and discovered MMOs for the first time. Mind blown, obviously. I started a Tauren Warrior and got him to level 20. I thought it was a lot of fun and went to sleep. When I woke up the next morning I went to play again and discovered the joy of finding my character exactly where I left him at the Crossroads in the Barrens. This was a game that remembered me, and continued to live while I wasn't there to pay attention to it. This was pretty new, and very addicting. Just this concept alone fueled the next year of my gaming life.

The game grew very quickly. Also at that time, broadband access was growing quickly across the country. In my groups with my IRL friends we had started playing regularly with a married couple who both played hunters. They played on dialup access. If you can picture that, me on my priest, a warrior, and three hunters (two of them on a 56k connection) trying to clear Blackrock Depths at level 54. We had serious issues trying to clear the first mob packs on the way to Bael'gar.

World of Warcraft was the first, biggest, accessible, persistent piece of entertainment that rewarded people who had broadband access. If it had happened sooner it would have had a cult following. If it had happened later it would have been mildly fun. It was launched in a perfect window. That timing was so sweet that it pulled in customers that had only a remote interest in the game itself. I'm an example of this- I've been playing for ten years and I don't even like the fantasy genre much. If I had my druthers I'd much rather play a military or western MMO. (Swords and dragons? Well, ok.. I played D&D as a kid, I've read Tolkien, sure we can try this.)

The launch was amazingly successful, the word of mouth was great, and the content was massive and kept growing. The concept that people have today where they feel they could log in and not have anything to do would be laughed at back then. It would take weeks (months) for a player just to see the entire published world for the first time. There were no youtube videos on how to defeat bosses, youtube itself wasn't created until February. The game itself didn't come with an instruction manual. You have to feel your way into it, and learn from other players. If you had never played an MMO before there were a lot of concepts to absorb.

And we did what wanted to in the game because it was fun at the time. We didn't pvp for rewards, we saw humans and elves talking gibberish and taking our things, so our shamans stood on the hill at Tarren Mill and chain lightninged the shit out of them. We climbed up cliffs into places where there was nothing but a good view, because exploring was the only way to find things. We wore gear because we liked it, not because it was the best in slot. We spent a lot of time doing useless, fun things.

The wow culture grew rapidly however. Fansites, maps, strategy guides, optimal builds, and theorycrafting were being introduced, and people wanted to play the game better. They were getting tired of just discovering the world, they wanted to pwn it. An expansion was added. We were not prepared. By 2008 Thottbot was one of the top 250 websites on the internet, and Warcraft was entering the social consciousness.

The game grew. We played it. We had a higher population than Belgium. As time marched on outside the world, broadband became an expectation. It was available everywhere. People now have tiny portable networked devices that process data faster than the PCs we started playing with. With this innovation and environment came the opportunity to be entertained in different ways. In comparison to the development of the world we lived in, the world of warcraft was hardly changing at all.

The 'facebook game' concept isn't the enemy, it's the eventuality. And it doesn't even need to mean the blippy little applications that people press with their thumbs, that's not the problem: It's that technology itself has evolved. There are simply more things available to a person to entertain themselves with, interactively, than there ever were before.

Warcraft isn't even competing against other MMOs. It kicks the tar out of them. It's still very, very good ten years later. The problem is that MMOs themselves are no longer able to give people the entertainment value they are looking for out of the time they invest. If any MMO wants to survive this evolution they will need to go back to harness that feeling that we had when the game was growing: The exploration and communication and discovery and wonder.

But, have faith: Technology continues to grow. I don't think it will be too long before companies can afford to give us universes that grow dynamically and open unendingly in front of the feet of the explorer and are able to collect and retain all the creative data associated with it. When exploration is open-ended you will have made the evolutionary leap that virtual worlds require to keep us entertained. And hopefully, somewhere in these worlds, there will be orcs and dragons to kill.

[DeadmanWalking]

Oh wow another 'X thing I don't like + subs are down=Subs are down because of X' thread.

I know it doesn't fit the narrative but there are a million individual reasons why a million people quit playing and would wager that the majority have nothing to do with X.